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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

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marno21

Someone better tell Peter Feeney that the Waterford-Dungarvan greenway is part of a disused railway alignment that ran all the way to Mallow..

It is fair to say that Athenry-Tuam is quite a high standard railway alignment given it's segregated. It's the abomination north of Tuam is what's useless.

Del.Monte

marno21 wrote: »

Someone better tell Peter Feeney that the Waterford-Dungarvan greenway is part of a disused railway alignment that ran all the way to Mallow..

It is fair to say that Athenry-Tuam is quite a high standard railway alignment given it's segregated. It's the abomination north of Tuam is what's useless.

What does this even mean?

marno21

Del.Monte wrote: »

What does this even mean?

The alignment north of Tuam is terrible. It's not good enough for a reasonable speed modern railway. The alignment south of Tuam is of a decent standard, much better than north of Tuam.

Del.Monte

marno21 wrote: »

The alignment north of Tuam is terrible. It's not good enough for a reasonable speed modern railway. The alignment south of Tuam is of a decent standard, much better than north of Tuam.

What's wrong with the 'alignment' save for some LCs that need eliminating? It's part of a through route not some useless branch from Athenry to Claremorris.

Isambard

the alignment and formation north of Claremorris is brutal but the bit south to Tuam isn't too bad is it?

Del.Monte

Isambard wrote: »

the alignment and formation north of Claremorris is brutal but the bit south to Tuam isn't too bad is it?

And you know this how?

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

And you know this how?

I've walked it regularly and cycled along its route often. You could put a man walking in front of the train waving a red flag. I have a few candidates in mind.

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

The alignment north of Tuam is terrible. It's not good enough for a reasonable speed modern railway. The alignment south of Tuam is of a decent standard, much better than north of Tuam.

Apart from the bit that is falling into the bog.
And the missing bridge.
And the few miles that need raising significantly if a bridge was to be built.
And the fact that it closed because nobody was using it.
Aye, sure it's grand.

Del.Monte

Muckyboots wrote: »

I've walked it regularly and cycled along its route often. You could put a man walking in front of the train waving a red flag. I have a few candidates in mind.

Yes. yes that may be the state CIE have allowed the line to lapse into today but has nothing to do with with potential as a through route. Unlike most of the posters here I have travelled over the route many times by train rather than bicycle and there's little wrong with the 'alignment' that the elimination of a few crossings wouldn't put right.

Isambard

the section north from Claremorris was always a lightly laid line not of the same standard as other lines. It's nothing to do with CIE neglect. What potential does a line from Claremorris to Sligo have as a through route?

[Deleted User]

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yes. yes that may be the state CIE have allowed the line to lapse into today but has nothing to do with with potential as a through route. Unlike most of the posters here I have travelled over the route many times by train rather than bicycle and there's little wrong with the 'alignment' that the elimination of a few crossings wouldn't put right.

Shame there isn't the population density to justify the cost

What was the last CB ratio? 100/6?

What's the bare minimum? 100/80

We'll all be long dead and buried before it would be logical to reopen that line. In the meantime it can serve communities along the route in another way

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Shame there isn't the population density to justify the cost

to tuam certainly would.

Deleted User wrote: »

In the meantime it can serve communities along the route in another way

it can, but i have a feeling that it is unlikely to. realistically, the government look to have little interest in putting either a greenway or a railway on that alinement. yee should have gone for a different route and you would likely have had a greenway years ago. at this rate by the looks of it i have a feeling yee will get nothing.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

to tuam certainly would.

it can, but i have a feeling that it is unlikely to. realistically, the government look to have little interest in putting either a greenway or a railway on that alinement. yee should have gone for a different route and you would likely have had a greenway years ago. at this rate by the looks of it i have a feeling yee will get nothing.

You're probably right about getting nothing; once there is a division of opinion among councillors nothing can happen.
However when it comes to identifying a different route, that sums up where the rail lobby screwed up. If they had pushed for a railway alongside a revamped M17/N17, and if the first phase of the wrc had been built alongside the motorway from Limerick, it might just have performed well enough to tempt some reckless minister into edging it northwards.
Now however with the failure of the first bit to deliver, other than existing commuter traffic at either end, the wrc project is dead in the water, and nothing can change that.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

You're probably right about getting nothing; once there is a division of opinion among councillors nothing can happen.
However when it comes to identifying a different route, that sums up where the rail lobby screwed up. If they had pushed for a railway alongside a revamped M17/N17, and if the first phase of the wrc had been built alongside the motorway from Limerick, it might just have performed well enough to tempt some reckless minister into edging it northwards.
Now however with the failure of the first bit to deliver, other than existing commuter traffic at either end, the wrc project is dead in the water, and nothing can change that.

that applies to both sides. both needed to find alternative routings incase the one they wanted would cause their project to be severely delaid or ignored altogether by central government.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

that applies to both sides. both needed to find alternative routings incase the one they wanted would cause their project to be severely delaid or ignored altogether by central government.

Except that the only route likely to get greenway funding is the rail route. The strategy document pretty much rules out a hyper-expensive wanderweg that would be drawn up.simply to avoid a disused rail line.
This obsessive belief that (a) there's a railway in the pipeline, and (b) that the greenway would prevent investment in rail is holding back Galway and Mayo and funneling the money into smarter places.

[Deleted User]

https://www.change.org/p/western-rail-trail-campaign-create-a-walking-and-cycling-greenway-on-the-closed-railway-from-sligo-to-athenry

The petition is about to cross the 20k signatures mark

eastwest

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.change.org/p/western-rail-trail-campaign-create-a-walking-and-cycling-greenway-on-the-closed-railway-from-sligo-to-athenry

The petition is about to cross the 20k signatures mark

Mayo county council can't ignore these kinds of numbers, or can they?
My guess is that they will. WOT is well embedded in Mayo Coco, and the council will stick with the old guard on this.
Galway potentially could go with public opinion, despite the Canney factor, but my guess is that the Galway executive won't want to isolate their mayo colleagues by closing off the wrc from the south. Sligo seems to have escaped the groupthink clutches of the Inter county railway committee.

marno21

It would make most sense for the greenway to start from Collooney and work it's way down. Up there the railway is least viable and the alignment is in very bad condition

Then the Tuam+ Claremorris racket can be dealt with over time as communities in the area see how the greenway is working further up the line

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

It would make most sense for the greenway to start from Collooney and work it's way down. Up there the railway is least viable and the alignment is in very bad condition

Then the Tuam+ Claremorris racket can be dealt with over time as communities in the area see how the greenway is working further up the line

On the other hand, a continuous greenway from Athenry to Collooney, connecting the Dublin Galway greenway to the north west, would create an attractive route that could be marketed internationally. A long, flat route of 200+ miles would be quite an attraction.

Muckyboots

eastwest wrote: »

Mayo county council can't ignore these kinds of numbers, or can they?
My guess is that they will. WOT is well embedded in Mayo Coco, and the council will stick with the old guard on this.
Galway potentially could go with public opinion, despite the Canney factor, but my guess is that the Galway executive won't want to isolate their mayo colleagues by closing off the wrc from the south. Sligo seems to have escaped the groupthink clutches of the Inter county railway committee.

Galway Co Co wont move until the rail feasibility score is completed, if it's ever published. Ross has form in burying reports, when it suits him. Don't know what his stance is on rail v trail these days.

eastwest

Muckyboots wrote: »

Galway Co Co wont move until the rail feasibility score is completed, if it's ever published. Ross has form in burying reports, when it suits him. Don't know what his stance is on rail v trail these days.

Ross isn't really very interested in anything that happens west of Lucan, it's all very foreign to him.
Anyway he was too busy lately winning medals for hockey.

Pete_Cavan

Muckyboots wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

Ross has form in burying reports, when it suits him. Don't know what his stance is on rail v trail these days.

Both are forms of transport so our Minister for Transport has no interest whatsoever in either. We're it a non tourism, transport or sport matter in his constituency however, he would be all over it.

eastwest

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Muckyboots wrote: »

Both are forms of transport so our Minister for Transport has no interest whatsoever in either. We're it a non tourism, transport or sport matter in his constituency however, he would be all over it.

It's a pity there isn't a closed garda station in Ballyglunin.

marno21

Groundhog day in the Irish Times tomorrow

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-reviewing-extension-for-western-rail-corrider-1.3598691

[Deleted User]

marno21 wrote: »

Groundhog day in the Irish Times tomorrow

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-reviewing-extension-for-western-rail-corrider-1.3598691

Spirited defence by Sean Canney on the radio this morning.
Newstalk about 9.15 (I think!)

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

Groundhog day in the Irish Times tomorrow

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-reviewing-extension-for-western-rail-corrider-1.3598691

Here we go again!
But maybe if they keep doing reviews, they might come up with a different result.

Corca Baiscinn

marno21 wrote: »

It would make most sense for the greenway to start from Collooney and work it's way down. Up there the railway is least viable and the alignment is in very bad condition

Then the Tuam+ Claremorris racket can be dealt with over time as communities in the area see how the greenway is working further up the line

That may well happen in any event since the Greenway Strategy makes it clear that Co Co's are the bodies which will apply for funding and since Sligo Co Co is supportive it's likely they will be ready to apply when applications open in Nov whereas clearly Mayo and Galway wont be.

The 200 km is a nice idea but assuming the problems are resolved will only happen over time anyway since there is no way there will be enough funding for all the greenway projects that are in the pipeline. Instead of links to the Dub Galway Greenway for now there can be links to Sligo town and Strandhill etc, to the Shannon Blueway at Carrick on Shannon and to the Royal Canal at Longford by train! (only for 2 people at a time of course)

Grandeeod

It's over 14 years since this crazy project was exposed for the worthless thing it is. Yet it persists even after a 100 million plus investment that's now subsidized to the point of free car parking and cheap fares. If other rail users getting screwed over with car parking charges and high fares actually cared we'd have a riot on our hands. But nobody cares apart from the usual cronies who know nothing about rail travel and loads about regional entitlement regardless of reality. The positive spin on reopening the rest of the WRC and the existing reopened section is offensive to the many who use rail to commute in the GDA after paying parking charges and high fares, not to mention the abandonment of projects like DU and the current piecemeal and so called DART upgrade which just pushes the can down the road for hundreds of thousands.

eastwest

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Spirited defence by Sean Canney on the radio this morning.
Newstalk about 9.15 (I think!)

I heard that interview, Canney didn't come across very well even with a lightweight interviewer. The texts that were read out also seemed to mostly rubbish his blatherings about the viability of a railway on the route.
He doesn't need to put himself under this pressure though, he has pretty much blocked any development on this route for a decade at least.

[Deleted User]

Grandeeod wrote: »

It's over 14 years since this crazy project was exposed for the worthless thing it is..

It survived one of the greatest economic crisis the country has ever known.

It is immortal and cannot be killed. :pac: