ciarriaithuaidh wrote: » So the Fitzmaurice era is over. And to be fair, give the man credit, he went quickly and didn't wait for the board to do the necessary. I'd question how much truth there is in the "bag of anonymous hate mail" stuff and I also thought his line about "taking pressure off the younger players" was fairly disingenuous. Performances and results are the reason he came under pressure and is gone, that's all. On the game yesterday - Kildare were playing really good stuff and allowed to play good stuff in the first half, by a Kerry team that looked like it had nothing to play for. Right from the warm-up (more on that later) there was a sense of lethargy from too many players. The ridiculous re-selection of Killian Young at 6 was shown up for what it was with Paul Cribbin scoring 5 from play in the first half. 4 of those under zero pressure 40m or less from goal. David Clifford was slow to get into the game and had a few panicky sort of shots early on, but once he got going he showed his class. The Kerry tactics early on were a bad version of 2006 tactics - lump the ball into Donaghy basically. It didn't work, as a lot of the ball was poor, Donaghy is no longer as sharp as he was and also, there was no Kerry player to pick up breaks off this ball. As if they weren't fully briefed or aware of what the tactics were. Kildare were running the ball with great purpose and Kevin Feely was the dominant figure on kickouts also ensuring they had plenty possession. The penalty by Clifford brought Kerry into the game but then the sending off got Kerry off the hook really. I've been told by quite a few Kerry people who were in the stand close to it that it was soft enough, BUT stupid by Kelly hitting someone in the face regardless. No need when 5 pts up and dominating. He was just after sticking a great goal aswell. Maybe he was too pumped up. The second half then was made easier for Kerry and once we got a few points ahead Kildare didn't kill themselves. BUT, we did play some good stuff and reallly went for it. Players were more urgent, moving with more zip etc. James O'Donoghue came in and showed flashes of his best, Geaney showed flashes of his true self finally, Jack Barry did well on front foot. Clifford was majestic though and is such an exciting prospect. Mad to think he's only 19. Also though, Peter Crowley was left 1 v 1 at fullback several times in the 2nd half, which in any sort of real game would be suicidal policy. Kerry didn't really have or need a centre back in the 2nd half so it was a bit unrealistic to look at 2nd half as being any huge positive. Anyway, on Ftzmaurice era. Firstly, it has to be said Fitz took the job in 2012 when only 36 and he didn't really want it. He wanted to stick with the u21s. However there was no other real condidate, so he took it. Credit due for that. And in 2013 we got the max out of the team I would say. Nobody expected much, but we played good football in the semi final and were level with Dublin in the last minute. There were signs in that game though of some of the poor judgement, that to me would be sadly one of the hallmarks of this era. Jack Sherwood - a player who had been a middling u21 in 2012 AND who had never played a championship game at senior level, had played a sum total of 17 mins in a league game - was brought off the bench to mark Kevin McMenamon when the game was in the melting pot. A bizarre and unjustifiable decision, which of course backfired. 2014 - got out of jail a bit in drawn semi final. Mayo were totally dominant in the 2nd half that day, but Donaghy was thrown on in desperation and setup the goal for JOD which was crucial. A big weakness of Fitzmaurice was exposed in between the drawn game and replay I felt and it went a bit unnoticed. Mayo had basically not bothered marking Mikey Geaney in the drawn game and as a result, even when they went down to 14 it was no advantage to Kerry. He was taken off after around 45 mins in the drawn game, but still started the replay. Everyone praised the ruthless decision to drop Marc O'Sé, but forgot about this in the aftermath of what was a huge win in that Mayo replay. Still though, 2014 All Ireland was a big achievement. There was some good football played and in the final, although it was a poor spectacle, Fitz got a lot of calls and the tactics right. Again a bit slow to make changes. McBrearty had almost dragged Donegal back into it before a change was made for example. Still though it was a deserved win that day. Credit will always be due for that win. I think the real issues with Fitzmaurice have appeared since 2015. The final that year was a massive debacle. The team selection, tactics, game management were all appalling by Fitzmaurice that day. Leaving the Gooch on for the entire game while withdrawing Geaney and JOD was just mind-boggling. Also, the disgraceful decision to bring on his brother in law, who had not even played club football in 2 years, was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in my life. A shambles and the beginning of the end that day I thought. Cian O'Neill seemed to bear the brunt of the blame for 2015, unfairly in my view. He left anyway and we replaced this highly qualified coach and sports scientist with..well, not going to get too nasty, but we certainly have not had an adequate level of coach or S&C since Cian O'Neill left. We've been bluffing in this regard and have paid the price repeatedly. I think of all the top contenders in Football since 2015, we are the least professional in our approach to the game, in terms of coaching, Strength and Conditioning and tactically. 2016 we went with an out and out sweeper in the Dublin game. I don't think it had been tried much in the league, so whatever about in training, players were not fully tuned into it. It didn't really work and despite playing well at times and being in a decent position in the final quarter against Dublin, we lost the game. The substitution of Paul Geaney for Marc O'Sé with the game tied in the 68th minute was yet another crazy change to make no matter what way you look at it. 2017 -the Mayo drawn game and replay were a shambles when viewed overall. A 19 year old making his debut as a sweeper in a big game whn you have never tried the tactic or formation is again, completely bonkers and unsurprisingly backfired. Said enough about previous games this year before here, but just going back to yesterday - the warmup (not for the first time) was woefully lethargic and poor looking. Is that the fault of the totally underqualified guy running it? The manager who oversees it? The players? A mix, but the manager has to take responsibility for his management setup surely. Two of the "tactical" issues that would strike anybody who has a clue about Gaelic football that saw the 1st half: 1.After 5 years in the job and a 7 months to work on various approaches, Kerry's attacking plan was based around kicking the ball high into Donaghy. Kieran Donaghy has been a great servant but is 35 and spent the winter playing basketball, missing the entire league. I would suggest in all fairness that this sort of thing is something that a Junior club manager would get excoriated for at an AGM, probably sacked being honest. 2.On top of that - our own kickouts were again, something akin to a poor Junior club team. No real consistent movement, no discernable shape or tactics. As a result, Kelly repeatedly ended up kicking the ball high and long right down the middle. Kildare were dominant in the air in the first half and also won the vast majority of the breaks. The sending off changed the game in this and every other regard. I felt that Shane Murphy being dropped after the Galway game was a massive cop out by Fitzmaurice. Yes, there were a couple of kicks over the line in that game. The big issue on our kickouts in that game though was the complete lack of good movement along with the fact that Galway were dominating in the air and on the breaking ball (something that clearly wasn't even recognised or worked on by management in the interim based on yesterday's game?) We have been left behind and look like a Div 3 team on restarts since 2015 which is just another of the systems failures of Fitzmaurice time in charge. Has there been a goalkeeping coach since Diarmuid Murphy left? I don't even know. Anyway, possibly too long a post, but needed some perspective rather than a throwaway comment. I'm happy Fitzmaurice is gone being honest and moving forward, whoever takes the manager job, we definitely could do with someone like Donie Buckley being brought in along with a vast improvement in S&C setup. A Peter Keane/Donie Buckley setup would appear to be a good option right now possibly. I have great time for what Jack O'Connor has done for Kerry football, but the last 3 years he has made a lot of bad calls and errors in the under 21/under 20 arena and he appears to have fallen behind a bit tactically to me also. Either way, it's one of those "winters of discontent" ahead for us to a degree. Hopefully we get a 2004 type revival based on a fresh approach.
pakie ed wrote: » Kerry supporters will have to wake up to the new world of All Ireland football championship. To win now in your have to win 7 games. Kerry won all theirs winning 3 or 4. They would be half fit and beat Cork in munster hit full fitness in August for a simi final and peak in September. The Kerry supporters have been reared to winning Titles but it a changed world now.
mickeyk wrote: » I don’t actually agree that it was the format that was the issue this year, many people are gleefully pointing out that we’ve crashed out early the first year of the Super 8’s so that must be the reason. Kerry were very fit IMO and had plenty of gas at the end of all the games but it was more an intensity that was missing. I think there is a huge issue with our coaching tbh, we have regressed each year since 2014, but particularly this year and last. If this was a normal year with the old knockout QF we’d be gone had we met anybody bar Roscommon. Kildare would probably have beaten us at Croker if they had kept 15 on the field looking at how that first half was going. The new management team will have a big task next year and it has very little to do with the format.
wonga77 wrote: » Absolutely. There are a few things the new management must do. Firstly clear out a few of the older lads. I would hope some of them see sense and retire before being pushed. No need to mention any names as we all know who Im on about. Second thing is to find and stick with a fullback. Too much messing in this position, its not going to be Griffen, it isn't going to be Crowley either. It will be tough but it should be a priority. Lastly, we have been rotating keepers for a few years now, its old and frustrating. Stick with one and cut out the flip flopping. Re the hate mail, I have seen a few people question this. I know for a fact that Micko got loads of mail in the late seventies, some folks were brave enough to sign their name to it, most were not. Jack Connor also got a tonne of it' He had other things too that I won't even type, people think we are bad enough! I can't speak for Pat O Shea but I would assume the late Paudi got it too. I will never understand the mindset of those "fans". I mean would you actually be bothered your hole going to that length? Fair enough I'm glad to see Fitzmaurice go but I wouldn't wish him any ill feeling. It's a tough job and I don't know why anyone would do it
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: » We had 7 games in 2009 and won the All Ireland, but thanks for your concern.
Mr. Incognito wrote: » He....clearly worked on short kick outs and kick passing.
Mr. Incognito wrote: » Kerry under Fitzmaurice had a plan.
Mr. Incognito wrote: » Its taken me a day or two to watch the fallout. I listened to Terrace Talk and Pat Spillanes ignorant rant. Ive only been attending Kerry games for Twenty years so can only speak to that period. Paidi came in and inherited a good team and Galvanised them but 97 was down to Maurice Fitz from placed balls. 98 Kildare and Karl O Dwyer put us away in the performance of his life. 99 Cork beat us and we only scored 4 points from play. 00 we beat Galway in a replay. The semi against Armagh was the game of the Summer. 01. Maurice Fitz and Paudis relationship was gone. The camp was split and Meath destroyed us. 2002 Armagh got their revenge. That was a hard defeat by a point 03 was tyrone and puke football. Diving. killing the clock. Jack O Connor was totally out thought 04. We beat Mayo. Gooch was immense 05. Darren o sullivan v armagh. Tyrone beat us again with a flukey goal that wasnt cleared. 06. Star was born. We went Route 1. Mayo again. 07. O Connor out. Pat in. Cork in the final. Gooches punched goal. 08. Tyrone out fox the twin towers with clever positioning. 09. Jack is back. We scrape by Sligo and creak by westmeath to the earwig game and beat Cork. 10. Down dump us out early. We are rubbish tactically. 11. We lead Dublin for 65 minutes and somehow throw it away. Our keeper kicks it out immediately after the goal and Dublin get a winning point which Claxton takes an age to kick. 12. Donegal choke us out. Jack is out. Tactical failure again. 13. Most of the golden generation are retired. No one wants the job. Eamonn steps up. We play what is still the greatest game of football I have ever seen live blitzing Dublin with early goals before their bench puts us away. 14. We win an all ireland utilising brilliant flexible tactics. Donaghy saves us against Mayo. The replay goes to extra time. We match Donegal in the final. One of the best coached and tactically set up teams of all time and their keeper kicks it short to donaghy who passes it into the net. Gooch is out injured. 15. Dublin beat us in the rain. Deservedly. 16. Dublin dump us out when the ref missed a shoulder charge that would have put us two up at a critical time 17. We are the first team since Donegal to beat Dublin in the league final after a draw in Tralee where we could have win. Mayo put us away in a replay. 18. We Cruise through Munster playing beautiful football. Galway beat us in an ice rink. Monaghan should have beaten us at home. They are a good team. Their keeper was exceptional. We Tinker at half time and blow Kildare away. Fitzmaurice was easily the best Kerry manager of my generation. He had the balls to close training grounds to the gossip merchants and clearly worked on short kick outs and kick passing. Moving the ball quickly and players having enormous trust in the manager and each other. When it worked it was phenominal to watch. Our bench let us down in 13 and the elements in 15 which suited Dublins running game. Not even mickey harte could crack him and he learned from Donegal. The criticism I hear are nepotism. Killian Young was on the panel on merit. I hear no kick out tactics from Spillane. A man who hasnt offered any meaningful analysis is 25 years as a bull**** artist pundit. Terrace Talk tonight was seeking to put the County board under pressure to release county players for league games. Not one made the point what if clifford or another key player breaks his leg in a nothing club game before a key championship game. Kerry under Fitzmaurice had a plan. They went toe to toe and beat the most professional resourced and successful football team of all time on sub par players Now he has built a team and the knives are out. I despair for Kerry football reading the bile the ignorant and downright stupid contributions in print media and in social media. I dont blame him for walking. The replacements are untested -Keane. Proven tactical failures -O Connor. And a host of unknowns. Kerry have lost a massive resource and I hope we dont come to regret it but no one with any sense will be cheering this as a positive step for Kerry football.
mystic86 wrote: » Not sure about the others but in my original post about the subs I'm not blaming management, it's more of a statement on our lack of strength in depth of real top quality players like the way Dublin etc. have.
Mr. Incognito wrote: » You have changed your Tune in 8 short weeks
Mr. Incognito wrote: Kerry under Fitzmaurice had a plan. They went toe to toe and beat the most professional resourced and successful football team of all time on sub par players
Mr. Incognito wrote: » Its taken me a day or two to watch the fallout. I listened to Terrace Talk and Pat Spillanes ignorant rant.What part of what Spillane said was inaccurate? Ive only been attending Kerry games for Twenty years so can only speak to that period. Paidi came in and inherited a good team and Galvanised them but 97 was down to Maurice Fitz from placed balls. 98 Kildare and Karl O Dwyer put us away in the performance of his life. 99 Cork beat us and we only scored 4 points from play. 00 we beat Galway in a replay. The semi against Armagh was the game of the Summer. 01. Maurice Fitz and Paudis relationship was gone. The camp was split and Meath destroyed us. 2002 Armagh got their revenge. That was a hard defeat by a point 03 was tyrone and puke football. Diving. killing the clock. Jack O Connor was totally out thoughtPaidi was manager in 2003, not Jack. Tyrone were by far the better team and we were miles behind, tactically and in terms of conditioning. 04. We beat Mayo. Gooch was immense 05. Darren o sullivan v armagh. Tyrone beat us again with a flukey goal that wasnt cleared.Delusional stuff. Tyrone were well deserved winners in a good game. What exactly was flukey about the goal? :rolleyes: 06. Star was born. We went Route 1. Mayo again. 07. O Connor out. Pat in. Cork in the final. Gooches punched goal. 08. Tyrone out fox the twin towers with clever positioning. 09. Jack is back. We scrape by Sligo and creak by westmeath to the earwig game and beat Cork. 10. Down dump us out early. We are rubbish tactically. 11. We lead Dublin for 65 minutes and somehow throw it away. Our keeper kicks it out immediately after the goal and Dublin get a winning point which Cluxton takes an age to kick.Your memory/timeline is totally wrong again. Kevin Nolan put them 1 ahead after the goal, Donaghy equalised and then came Cluxton's late free. 12. Donegal choke us out. Jack is out. Tactical failure again. 13. Most of the golden generation are retired. No one wants the job. Eamonn steps up. We play what is still the greatest game of football I have ever seen live blitzing Dublin with early goals before their bench puts us away. 14. We win an all ireland utilising brilliant flexible tactics. Donaghy saves us against Mayo. The replay goes to extra time. We match Donegal in the final. One of the best coached and tactically set up teams of all time and their keeper kicks it short to donaghy who passes it into the net. Gooch is out injured.Best of all-time? Get a grip..McGuiness dropped McBrearty for the final, surely one of the biggest errors in a final of all time! 15. Dublin beat us in the rain. Deservedly.Any further comment on that final perhaps? The changes made and not made? Bringing on Paul Galvin? Nothing to add there? 16. Dublin dump us out when the ref missed a shoulder charge that would have put us two up at a critical timeYeah that was a bad call for the shoulder on Crowley. How about the untried, untested sweeper system? The crazy substitution of Geaney with the game level, for Marc O'Sé? 17. We are the first team since Donegal to beat Dublin in the league final after a draw in Tralee where we could have win. Mayo put us away in a replay.Mayo DESTROYED us and our shambolic attempt at a sweeper system in the replay, let's be honest. 18. We Cruise through Munster playing beautiful football. Galway beat us in an ice rink. Monaghan should have beaten us at home. They are a good team. Their keeper was exceptional. We Tinker at half time and blow Kildare away.Who gives a f*ck that we cruised through a lot of Div 2 teams? We were found badly wanting when really tested. We scored 9pts in 65 minutes in the Galway game. Clifford's last minute goal put a gloss on the scoreboard. How can you blithely skip over that performance? Totally distorting the truth of the Kildare game aswell. "We tinker at half time"..tinker my eye. Kildare were down to 14 and we had more space. Fitzmaurice was easily the best Kerry manager of my generation.As I said, you must be related to the man to make this statement. He had the balls to close training grounds to the gossip merchants and clearly worked on short kick outs and kick passing. Moving the ball quickly and players having enormous trust in the manager and each other.Do you know the kickout stats from the Super 8 games or are you just ignoring them? Quote them there and prove me wrong. In the Kildare game a good half of our kickouts in the first half were kicked high in the air to the middle. An u14 club team wouldn't do it. When it worked it was phenominal to watch. Our bench let us down in 13 and the elements in 15 which suited Dublins running game. Not even mickey harte could crack him and he learned from Donegal. The criticism I hear are nepotism. Killian Young was on the panel on merit. I hear no kick out tactics from Spillane. A man who hasnt offered any meaningful analysis is 25 years as a bull**** artist pundit. A few weeks after the Sunday game analyse Kerrys bunch and break positioning on kick outs against Cork. Not by Pat.Was Killian Young picked for the Galway game at centre back and the Kildare game again at 6 on merit? Fitzmaurice took him off at half time on Saturday he was so bad. Terrace Talk tonight was seeking to put the County board under pressure to release county players for league games. Not one made the point what if clifford or another key player breaks his leg in a nothing club game before a key championship game. Kerry under Fitzmaurice had a plan. They went toe to toe and beat the most professional resourced and successful football team of all time on sub par players Now he has built a team and the knives are out. I despair for Kerry football reading the bile the ignorant and downright stupid contributions in print media and in social media. I dont blame him for walking. The replacements are untested -Keane. Proven tactical failures -O Connor. And a host of unknowns. Kerry have lost a massive resource and I hope we dont come to regret it but no one with any sense will be cheering this as a positive step for Kerry football.
Mr. Incognito wrote: » 11. We lead Dublin for 65 minutes and somehow throw it away. Our keeper kicks it out immediately after the goal and Dublin get a winning point which Cluxton takes an age to kick.
Mr. Incognito wrote: » 16. Dublin dump us out when the ref missed a shoulder charge that would have put us two up at a critical time
PARlance wrote: I would give Fitzmaurice huge kudos for that. It was quite clearly worked on.
Stoner wrote: » I completely disagree here PARlance. This is exactly what I am taking about. The tactic was deployed too early, the game management was poor. At half time Dublin fixed it, figured out the little trick around when the push up was applied. Cluxton composed himself and kicked the ball over the kerry team. Dublin were down at halftime. The Kerry management team had shown their hand too early, Dublin had the whole second half to address the issue. 20 to 15 minutes to go was the right time to try that, remember this was Dublin Kerry, off the back of strong finishes in 2011 and 2013 by Dublin, the form was established. Tyrone timed it right last month, stay in the hunt and strike late in the game and manage the momentum of the game
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: To be fair Stoner, it was 9-4 to Dublin at one point and could have been 1-10 to 0-4 or so..at that point you probably have to go for it with whatever you have up your sleeve, before the game is beyond you? I get what you are saying but the game was level pretty much on full time, so it was a tight enough one, BUT to be fair, Dublin were better on the day and could have had the game over after 20 mins.
Mr. Incognito wrote: » Its taken me a day or two to watch the fallout. I listened to Terrace Talk and Pat Spillanes ignorant rant. Ive only been attending Kerry games for Twenty years so can only speak to that period. Paidi came in and inherited a good team and Galvanised them but 97 was down to Maurice Fitz from placed balls. 98 Kildare and Karl O Dwyer put us away in the performance of his life. 99 Cork beat us and we only scored 4 points from play. 00 we beat Galway in a replay. The semi against Armagh was the game of the Summer. 01. Maurice Fitz and Paudis relationship was gone. The camp was split and Meath destroyed us. 2002 Armagh got their revenge. That was a hard defeat by a point 03 was tyrone and puke football. Diving. killing the clock. Jack O Connor was totally out thought 04. We beat Mayo. Gooch was immense 05. Darren o sullivan v armagh. Tyrone beat us again with a flukey goal that wasnt cleared. 06. Star was born. We went Route 1. Mayo again. 07. O Connor out. Pat in. Cork in the final. Gooches punched goal. 08. Tyrone out fox the twin towers with clever positioning. 09. Jack is back. We scrape by Sligo and creak by westmeath to the earwig game and beat Cork. 10. Down dump us out early. We are rubbish tactically. 11. We lead Dublin for 65 minutes and somehow throw it away. Our keeper kicks it out immediately after the goal and Dublin get a winning point which Cluxton takes an age to kick. 12. Donegal choke us out. Jack is out. Tactical failure again. 13. Most of the golden generation are retired. No one wants the job. Eamonn steps up. We play what is still the greatest game of football I have ever seen live blitzing Dublin with early goals before their bench puts us away. 14. We win an all ireland utilising brilliant flexible tactics. Donaghy saves us against Mayo. The replay goes to extra time. We match Donegal in the final. One of the best coached and tactically set up teams of all time and their keeper kicks it short to donaghy who passes it into the net. Gooch is out injured. 15. Dublin beat us in the rain. Deservedly. 16. Dublin dump us out when the ref missed a shoulder charge that would have put us two up at a critical time 17. We are the first team since Donegal to beat Dublin in the league final after a draw in Tralee where we could have win. Mayo put us away in a replay. 18. We Cruise through Munster playing beautiful football. Galway beat us in an ice rink. Monaghan should have beaten us at home. They are a good team. Their keeper was exceptional. We Tinker at half time and blow Kildare away. Fitzmaurice was easily the best Kerry manager of my generation. He had the balls to close training grounds to the gossip merchants and clearly worked on short kick outs and kick passing. Moving the ball quickly and players having enormous trust in the manager and each other. When it worked it was phenominal to watch. Our bench let us down in 13 and the elements in 15 which suited Dublins running game. Not even mickey harte could crack him and he learned from Donegal. The criticism I hear are nepotism. Killian Young was on the panel on merit. I hear no kick out tactics from Spillane. A man who hasnt offered any meaningful analysis is 25 years as a bull**** artist pundit. A few weeks after the Sunday game analyse Kerrys bunch and break positioning on kick outs against Cork. Not by Pat. Terrace Talk tonight was seeking to put the County board under pressure to release county players for league games. Not one made the point what if clifford or another key player breaks his leg in a nothing club game before a key championship game. Kerry under Fitzmaurice had a plan. They went toe to toe and beat the most professional resourced and successful football team of all time on sub par players Now he has built a team and the knives are out. I despair for Kerry football reading the bile the ignorant and downright stupid contributions in print media and in social media. I dont blame him for walking. The replacements are untested -Keane. Proven tactical failures -O Connor. And a host of unknowns. Kerry have lost a massive resource and I hope we dont come to regret it but no one with any sense will be cheering this as a positive step for Kerry football.
Mr. Incognito wrote: » I was at the Galway, Monaghan and Kildare game. Gutted Fitzmaurice has stopped down. Too many fair weather fans calling for his head. Will post something more worthy when im sober.
C__MC wrote: » I’d say up until this time last year, Kerry fans were happy enough with Fitzmaurice.
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