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Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

dowlingm

So there's been quite a bit of discussion of greenways on threads like Western Rail Corridor (Train & Rail Systems) and I was thinking it might be useful to have a thread which pulls together both technical discussion (for example how greenways can co-exist with adjacent roadways or railways) and news (expansions of existing greenways / announcements of new ones)

According to the Connaught Tribune there are moves on getting on Galway-Clifden along the old rail line alignment. Is there anything else starting to reach firm proposals as opposed to discussion?

MOD EDIT: Fantastic Greenway map of Ireland by riddlinrussell here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1HAHB3jpXV7qgrTHgopH4Zl7-ItDHGEPv&ll=53.4320326010536%2C-8.939188105408448&z=7

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marno21

As above, KCC to lodge South Kerry Greenway (32km) for planning before end of month

http://www.radiokerry.ie/council-lodge-planning-application-south-kerry-greenway-end-month/

That's 2 greenways in Kerry at planning, Glenbeigh-Renard and Listowel-Limerick Border.

specialbyte

The National Strategy for the Development of Regional and National Greenways was launched today. It sets out the criteria for receiving national funding from the Project Ireland 2040 Greenway funding of €53 million between 2019-2021. Full details on the strategy are here: http://www.dttas.ie/tourism/english/greenways

marno21

Brilliant. Wasn't expecting this for a while.

The effort put into the common brand for greenways is excellent and really will help promote the whole greenway network around Ireland.

MJohnston

Is there a way to provide feedback on it? I really like the on-track/off-road signage design, but I was thinking it should really include information about the facilities available in each town along the route.

Additionally, I really think they should consider having a 'bike repairs' indicator along the routes to let you know which towns have available bike shops if you need them - there's an equivalent "Garage Repairs" symbol for informational signs included in the DTTAS manual, so it has precedent!

Corca Baiscinn

MJohnston wrote: »

Is there a way to provide feedback on it? I really like the on-track/off-road signage design, but I was thinking it should really include information about the facilities available in each town along the route.

Additionally, I really think they should consider having a 'bike repairs' indicator along the routes to let you know which towns have available bike shops if you need them - there's an equivalent "Garage Repairs" symbol for informational signs included in the DTTAS manual, so it has precedent!

Your ideas sound good. They haven't asked for feedback as they had the consultation doc last summer and this is their response but no reason why you shouldn't give it. If I were you I would do it via whichever Cycling Campaign group is local to you as they will def give feedback or via an Independent Alliance or FG Councillor who should be in touch with Shane Ross/Brendan Griffin. Of course you could contact the Dept directly too but no way of knowing if it gets to the right people.
It's actually the local county councils who will be building the greenways but you're right that a national standard re signage would work better than every council doing its own thing
Re repairs, I know someone who was cycling in Austria who got a puncture on a Sun evening but luckily there was a vending machine that sold tubes! And before anyone says they should have been carrying a spare it was a hired bike which had just been collected!

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

As above, KCC to lodge South Kerry Greenway (32km) for planning before end of month

http://www.radiokerry.ie/council-lodge-planning-application-south-kerry-greenway-end-month/

That's 2 greenways in Kerry at planning, Glenbeigh-Renard and Listowel-Limerick Border.

Tralee-Fenit is also underway.

Zebra3

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Re repairs, I know someone who was cycling in Austria who got a puncture on a Sun evening but luckily there was a vending machine that sold tubes! And before anyone says they should have been carrying a spare it was a hired bike which had just been collected!

Rubbers from a vending machine.

That's a great idea!!!! :pac:

[Deleted User]

Farmers in Kerry are up in arms about the prospect of CPOs being used to acquire land for the proposed greenway

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/we-wont-give-up-fight-against-cpo-greenway-protest-escalates-in-kerry-37156665.html

While I understand their point, to a degree, a higildy pigidly route which zig zags around the edges of fields is not an attractive amenity to anyone

I doubt whether they would be as vocal if this was for a road. But for cyclists and walkers, sure they can go around corners so why not

marno21

There was a lengthy discussion on it on Radio Kerry there, I'll link it up if they put it up as a podcast

While it's inconvenient, it wouldn't be an issue if the rail line wasn't pawned off or used for realigning the N70

Muahahaha

The article mentions a farmer owing part of the railway line, how the hell did that come about?

marno21

Plans advancing on 22km Waterford-New Ross greenway

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/newrossstandard/news/excitement-at-greenways-huge-potential-for-area-37146642.html

Qrt

marno21 wrote: »

Plans advancing on 22km Waterford-New Ross greenway

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/newrossstandard/news/excitement-at-greenways-huge-potential-for-area-37146642.html

Are they ripping up the Waterford - Rosslare line? Ie the one that closed in 2010?

riddlinrussell

Qrt wrote: »

Are they ripping up the Waterford - Rosslare line? Ie the one that closed in 2010?

They have plans to, but not as part of this project.

https://www.wexfordcoco.ie/community/recreational-and-community-development-projects/rosslare-to-waterford-city-greenway

roadmaster

Carlingford Lough Greenway - Appointment of Engineering and Environmental Consultancy Services, Dorans from Belfast

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/205531

Markcheese

roadmaster wrote: »

Carlingford Lough Greenway - Appointment of Engineering and Environmental Consultancy Services, Dorans from Belfast

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/205531

Dundalk to greenore? And on to carlinford? Then Newry?

riddlinrussell

Markcheese wrote: »

Dundalk to greenore? And on to carlinford? Then Newry?

Its for 10km of greenway so thats too long to be either Carlingford to greenore or Omeath to Victoria lock... either its part of the Dundalk side of the route or its both of the above sections, unlikely as it says the works are to be done in Louth... maybe Carlingford/Greenore and then round the head to near Gyles Quay? Id maybe hazard a guess at from Dundalk out to Jenkinstown, but I'd have expected them to do that bit as a larger block/last as it probably cant stand up on its own as a greenway as much unless its connecting you on to Carlingford

Muahahaha

There was a short report by Plastic Sheeting on the RTE 6.1 about the Kerry Greenway. Crux of it was the IFA protesting outside Kerry County Council offices saying the 180 farmers support the greenway but are against CPOs. They were complaining that they have not been consulted which I find hard to believe as KCC say they did engage in talks but agreement could not be reached so they are now proceeding to CPO. Anyway the current state of play is a planning application is going into ABP in the coming weeks.

During the report they had a camera drone filming part of the proposed 32km greenway route. Its an old railway line which has a superb viaduct on its route. The scenery along the route was absolutely stunning, if/when this goes ahead it will be a jewel in Kerry tourism.

Corca Baiscinn

Muahahaha wrote: »

. Crux of it was the IFA protesting outside Kerry County Council offices saying the 180 farmers support the greenway but are against CPOs. They were complaining that they have not been consulted which I find hard to believe as KCC say they did engage in talks but agreement could not be reached so they are now proceeding to CPO..

Is this the Greenway proposal that first came to light at the same time as the Waterford one in 2013? If so I guess 5 years is long enough to try the talking route and it's time to move on. Dont know the first thing re modus operandi of Kerry Co Co but since agreement would be less hassle than CPO's I imagine they tried it first

[Deleted User]

Yes it's the same one

death1234567

Farmer's complaining? Hard to believe that.

Tigerandahalf

Muahahaha wrote: »

During the report they had a camera drone filming part of the proposed 32km greenway route. Its an old railway line which has a superb viaduct on its route. The scenery along the route was absolutely stunning, if/when this goes ahead it will be a jewel in Kerry tourism.

What greenway is this?
What is the story with the Great Southern Trail on the section into Listowel?

Carawaystick

The tender doc in Carlingford says

The objective of the scheme is the construction of approximately 10 km of new Cross Border Greenway, in accordance with prevailing cycling standards (Rural Cycleway design (Offline) DN-GEO-03047 April 2017).
The proposed route is along the Old Dundalk, Newry & Greenore rail line, where this route is practical. The rail line closed in 1951 and is currently densely overgrown with vegetation.

RikkFlair

Muahahaha wrote: »

There was a short report by Plastic Sheeting on the RTE 6.1 about the Kerry Greenway. Crux of it was the IFA protesting outside Kerry County Council offices saying the 180 farmers support the greenway but are against CPOs. They were complaining that they have not been consulted which I find hard to believe as KCC say they did engage in talks but agreement could not be reached so they are now proceeding to CPO. Anyway the current state of play is a planning application is going into ABP in the coming weeks.

Saw that, had the usual "this will cut my land in 2" complaint that seems to get trotted out all the time. I'm sure there will be well designed farm crossings included, it's a greenway not the Berlin wall!

CiarraiAbu2

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

What greenway is this?
What is the story with the Great Southern Trail on the section into Listowel?

Same problem farmers complaining, same with Tralee to Fenit. The biggest problem I have with it is that they never owned the land in the first place. The other problem I have with it is that most of it was never incorporated into their own lands it's just two banks overgrown with brambles, yet they want to be paid for it.

nuac

veryangryman wrote: »

Honestly i hope they go with the original route. CPO's for national infrastructure need to be more gung-ho. Give the farmer(s) some reasonable compensation and build it.

I don't think "Gungho-CPOs" are the best way to develope viable greenways. Land owners resent the compulsion. Understandable when you recall Land War history.

The local authority has to do an immense amount of work in preparing a CPO application, costing time and money,

The first and most successful Greenway is Westport/Achill. Work on that started 2010.

The County Council appointed a dynamic duo Anna Connor Walking Officer and Padgraig Philbin Senior Executive Engineer. They met and worked with about 170 landowners and local development organisations along the route. They explained the economic and social advantages to the area of a Greenway. They negotiated agreements for permissive access. No mention of a CPO anywhere. Community buy-in instead.

Has been extended to Castlebar and onto Turlough. Extensions to Murrisk and Louisburgh being worked on.

There is even talk of a spur south of Westport to Leenane!

nuac

marno21 wrote: »

The whole purpose of these greenways is to preserve quality railway alignments for future use when they become viable again.

We'll thank the greenway co-operatives when we see trains running Dungarvan-Waterford, Westport-Achill, Tralee-Fenit, Tralee-Limerick etc.

Apart from the lack of an economic case to restore train services from Westport to Achill, we have the issue of the prophesy of Brian Rua O'Cearrabhán. In effect he said over 250 years ago that there would be a cart on iron wheels coming to Achill, and that it would carry corpses on its first and last journey.

The first train from Westport to Achill carried the bodies of Achill people who were drowned at Westport while waiting to board the Glasgow steamer.

The last train, a special after the line had been closed to normal traffic, carried the bodies of Achill youths killed in a fire at Kirkintullough. They had gone there for annual work picking potatoes

So if a train service Westport/Achill were resumed, the operators would need to check their life insurance:).

riddlinrussell

Carawaystick wrote: »

The tender doc in Carlingford says

The objective of the scheme is the construction of approximately 10 km of new Cross Border Greenway, in accordance with prevailing cycling standards (Rural Cycleway design (Offline) DN-GEO-03047 April 2017).
The proposed route is along the Old Dundalk, Newry & Greenore rail line, where this route is practical. The rail line closed in 1951 and is currently densely overgrown with vegetation.

I missed the explicit mention of cross border there! That makes Victoria Lock-Omeath and Carlingford-Greenore combo more likely! That would likely be the catalyst for it becoming much more popular as the main section along the south shore of the lough would be completed.

whisky_galore

nuac wrote: »

I don't think "Gung-CPOs" are the best way to develope viable greenways. Land owners resent the compulsion. Understandable when you recall Land War history.

People resent being told what to do by their 'betters', and will resist.
Going in with all guns blazing will set back projects for years, or cause them to be abandoned altogether.

FWIW: the difference between the Fenit branch and South Kerry is that the South Kerry was officially abandoned and land sold back to landowners by CIE, the Fenit landowners are attempting to squat on land that isn't theirs as it was never formally abandoned.

I may be corrected on this but read somewhere CIE transferred their ownership of the Fenit branch to Kerry CC recently?

As for 'safeguarding', I very much doubt that rail will return to any converted routes, whether it makes economic sense or not as the govt/Irish Rail are anything but pro-rail and Irish people in general are too fond of their cars.

whisky_galore

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

What greenway is this?
What is the story with the Great Southern Trail on the section into Listowel?

Abbeyfeale - Listowel has been cleared of growth, with consent of landowners.

riddlinrussell

whisky_galore wrote: »

People resent being told what to do by their 'betters', and will resist.
Going in with all guns blazing will set back projects for years, or cause them to be abandoned altogether.

FWIW: the difference between the Fenit branch and South Kerry is that the South Kerry was officially abandoned and land sold back to landowners by CIE, the Fenit landowners are attempting to squat on land that isn't theirs as it was never formally abandoned.

I may be corrected on this but read somewhere CIE transferred their ownership of the Fenit branch to Kerry CC recently?

As for 'safeguarding', I very much doubt that rail will return to any converted routes, whether it makes economic sense or not as the govt/Irish Rail are anything but pro-rail and Irish people in general are too fond of their cars.

There was (AFAIK) one route that became a greenway in Ireland with a specific view to being made a public transit corridor in future. The Comber Greenway in Belfast. When they tried to use it as a BRT/Tram route there was public outcry at taking away the greenway and translink/dept of Infra backed down, if it ever happens again I'd anticipate the Dept will get a written agreement rather than gentlemans agreement so they dont experience the same problems.