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best way to monitor/control alarm from smart phone

baby fish

I would like to know how to control an alarm(that I havent installed yet) with a smart phone, I can obviously (and will) talk to the people I got a quote from but Id like to have some idea what I'm talking about first.

so here's where I am

HKC10/70 , plus GSMSC card (150 euro approx), yearly subscription to installer (100 euro approx) , plus HKC app purchase ( 8 euro) .

So after installation it will cost about 100e per year. Am I missing anything?

Does the above rely on my home router to connect with my smart phone?

Essentially I just want an alarm on my house plus it would be good if with my smart phone know if it is set off, what sensors were triggered, turn it on/off.

Any other alternative methods of syncing alarm to smart phone?

Thanks

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lopesc

>If you take a paid for app with GSM/GPRS back up then the real let down on HKC is the polling notifications.

That reminds, I meant to throw HomeSecure (Zero-wire) into the mix as well. They seem to have decent control via the app and have wifi and GSM as a backup.

baby fish

KoolKid wrote: »

would be able to install

They should , but most want to stick to what they have been using for the last 20 years and only install HKC. Which isnt a bad thing, because you know they are good but it leaves little choice for different needs. I'm trying one more installer and if no joy finding alternative I will just get HKC alarm, i've contacted Siemens and GSD and have no luck finding an installer near me.

Anyone know if the SATEL app is free or annual subscription? i cant see anything about subscription so presume it is free..Is it similar to the rest?

On the point of the free app connecting to home router... will the panel have to connect to the router by a wire or is WiFi ok? Any max distance involved?

With HKC, whats the difference/advantage between GSM-WiFi and GSM-SC ?

KoolKid

Really surprised that you can't get an installer that uses multiple systems?.
Where are you located.?
Did you try contacting some suppliers?
GSD Siemens Vanderbilt and Risco can all use hardwired connections also.

baby fish

KoolKid wrote: »

Did you try contacting some suppliers?

No I haven't contacted any suppliers yet...It should be a lot easier than this - if I look up an installers website, I should see what brand(s) they use. I cant think of any other product where I have to go further back the chain of supply in order to find the person I need. I should only have to deal with installers - not search through suppliers. Its worth trying but should be easier.

I've found one installer who fits a few different types but they are expensive when comparing identical quotations from others -

siemens have this link https://vanderbiltindustries.com/find-an-installer not much happening outside of Dublin...

iRisco has a note on its app 'pricing is subject to change without prior notice' its free now but will it always be?

GSD I think are in an electrical suppliers I know of, I might get some information there if someone local fits them.

Question:With the free app connecting to home router... will the panel have to connect to the router by a wire or is WiFi ok? Any max distance involved?

Has anyone opinion on following:
Keeping my options open here as I think I know an installer of SATEL,
Anyone know if the SATEL app is free or annual subscription? i cant see anything about subscription so presume it is free..Is it similar to the rest?

If I go down the HKC road: whats the difference/advantage between GSM-WiFi and GSM-SC ?

lopesc

KoolKid wrote: »

Really surprised that you can't get an installer that uses multiple systems?.

Finding this difficult as well. Any I have contacted thus far only install one system or another. Suggestions very much appreciated. Based in Dublin

KoolKid

There are plenty of professional installers in Dublin well capable and trained to install multiple systems.
I am baffled that GSD or others could not put you in contact with anyone.
As a consumer I would always beware of any supplier only interested in pushing or promoting one brand.
You wouldn't walk into Argos or Harvey Norman and expect to be offered only one product would you?
All systems can be connected by ethernet connection or WiFi.

lopesc

KoolKid wrote: »

All systems can be connected by ethernet connection or WiFi.

From what I've read, Risco alarms don't have a wifi module.

KoolKid

But you can add it using a WiFi gateway or similar

Stoner wrote: »

That's all fine and possibly not for this forum. Will apple honour a warranty on your phone?

Yes, I'm not a solicitor and the law differs from country to country obviously, but what I've read about this subject the law in US and most of Europe is very clear on this.

You own the product and as such you can do whatever you want with it, maintain it, repair it, change it. If the changes you make "break" the product, then the manufacturer is not responsible, but if the product "breaks" for reasons unrelated to your changes then they are still responsible.

Think if you bought a new car, now imagine you get a puncture and you change the tire. A few weeks later the engine drops out of the car, but now the car manufacturer tries and claim that they aren't responsible because you made an "authorized" change! Well obviously most people would say that is crazy and frankly the courts and laws have largely said the same.

Of course if you had modified the engine in such a way to cause it to fail, that is a different manner.

Coming back to iPhone, in my experience Apple has had no problems with servicing jailbroken iPhones. I've gotten the battery replaced by Apple on my jailbroken iPhone without a problem. If you are having a software issue, they ask you to reset it to the factory default, which is totally fair, but they still honour warranty without issue.

baby fish

The quotes im getting are obviously including installation, so I can install hkc alarm now and pay for the HKC app for about the next 15 years (app @60 Euro yearly)OR install Siemens alarm which cost the same as above at installation

So put simply, based on my quotations :
Siemens alarm installed with free app = HKC alarm installed with 15years of paid app

The quotations I have are mainly HKC,and within these HKC installers there is up to about 750Euro price difference for identical specifications.

As it's difficult to find Siemens installers, it's difficult to get a few quotations to compare against.

When I compare the HKC quotes i have with the siemens quotes i have, there is approximately 40% increase for the Siemens alarm.

I'm presuming installation cost is about the same for whatever alarm is used...
I've read the Siemens alarm hardware is more expensive than others...

Going on my quotations only, it would seem the hardware for Siemens alarm costs approx 40% more?
Would this be fair to say?

Stoner

Yes that's possibly fair to say unless one starts and one stops charging for the service.

There's is a sticky on this BTW.

KoolKid

baby fish wrote: »

The quotes im getting are obviously including installation, so I can install hkc alarm now and pay for the HKC app for about the next 15 years (app @60 Euro yearly)OR install Siemens alarm which cost the same as above at installation

So put simply, based on my quotations :
Siemens alarm installed with free app = HKC alarm installed with 15years of paid app

The quotations I have are mainly HKC,and within these HKC installers there is up to about 750Euro price difference for identical specifications.

As it's difficult to find Siemens installers, it's difficult to get a few quotations to compare against.

When I compare the HKC quotes i have with the siemens quotes i have, there is approximately 40% increase for the Siemens alarm.

I'm presuming installation cost is about the same for whatever alarm is used...
I've read the Siemens alarm hardware is more expensive than others...

Going on my quotations only, it would seem the hardware for Siemens alarm costs approx 40% more?
Would this be fair to say?

Its partially that & partially basic economics. Scarce in relation to demand.
There is also an element that you are paying for the brand.
I would also recommend you factor in increases in the subscriptions.
I am subscribed to many different services & they generally go one way once your are committed.
I would be the least worried about Siemens/Vanderbilt introducing charges as you always have the back up or direct access to the browser to access your system.

pedroeibar1

I want to replace Phonewatch (SIM card connection) with a new self-monitored system. It’s for a holiday home and I need to get ‘up to speed’ before I get quotes.
Requirements one door sensor, seven motion sensors in two zones. I’d like to add 2 external cameras and a hard drive. Monitored via an app to my phone. Terrestrial broadband is not available (& no hope of it in future) but indoors I get 3G and sometimes 4G signal on my phone, so I’m thinking about installing a router with external antenna (e.g. €20pm from Three). Can this be used also to provide Wi-Fi to house or it is best that the alarm have a separate SIM?.
Are the cameras possible on a SIM, any suggested systems/brands and what would be the approx cost? Thanks

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I want to replace Phonewatch (SIM card connection) with a new self-monitored system. It’s for a holiday home and I need to get ‘up to speed’ before I get quotes.
Requirements one door sensor, seven motion sensors in two zones. I’d like to add 2 external cameras and a hard drive. Monitored via an app to my phone. Terrestrial broadband is not available (& no hope of it in future) but indoors I get 3G and sometimes 4G signal on my phone, so I’m thinking about installing a router with external antenna (e.g. €20pm from Three). Can this be used also to provide Wi-Fi to house or it is best that the alarm have a separate SIM?.
Are the cameras possible on a SIM, any suggested systems/brands and what would be the approx cost? Thanks

Note: I'm not an installer and haven't tried any of the below kit, just an interested DIYer

Perhaps Honeywell Evohome? It is almost the same kit as the current phonewatch system, so you would already be relatively familiar with it.

It includes a free self monitoring, it comes with a SIM that is free for two years, after that it currently costs €20 for an additional two years.

Like this one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Honeywell-HS923GPRS-Wireless-Alarm-White/dp/B07699B5WY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533030197&sr=8-1&keywords=honeywell+evohome+security

It includes a motion sensor with a camera built in, those snap on motion detection. That should be ok over GPRS.

Proper external cameras over 3G/4G might be more troublesome as IP cameras use a lot of data and you might go over your cap.

Perhaps Blink or Arlo battery cameras that only trigger and send video when motion is detected. Might help cut down on data sent.

Of course another option is proper CCTV system to a NVR with motion detection on the NVR which sends you notifications when motion detected.

KoolKid

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I want to replace Phonewatch (SIM card connection) with a new self-monitored system. It’s for a holiday home and I need to get ‘up to speed’ before I get quotes.
Requirements one door sensor, seven motion sensors in two zones. I’d like to add 2 external cameras and a hard drive. Monitored via an app to my phone. Terrestrial broadband is not available (& no hope of it in future) but indoors I get 3G and sometimes 4G signal on my phone, so I’m thinking about installing a router with external antenna (e.g. €20pm from Three). Can this be used also to provide Wi-Fi to house or it is best that the alarm have a separate SIM?.
Are the cameras possible on a SIM, any suggested systems/brands and what would be the approx cost? Thanks

€20 a month is expensive unless you are going to use it for the house. You could get a dedicated SIM for the alarm for a fraction of that.
If you are going to make use of it then yes the wifi could be shared.
In most cases cameras could be integrated with the alarm app also.

altor

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I want to replace Phonewatch (SIM card connection) with a new self-monitored system. It’s for a holiday home and I need to get ‘up to speed’ before I get quotes.
Requirements one door sensor, seven motion sensors in two zones. I’d like to add 2 external cameras and a hard drive. Monitored via an app to my phone. Terrestrial broadband is not available (& no hope of it in future) but indoors I get 3G and sometimes 4G signal on my phone, so I’m thinking about installing a router with external antenna (e.g. €20pm from Three). Can this be used also to provide Wi-Fi to house or it is best that the alarm have a separate SIM?.
Are the cameras possible on a SIM, any suggested systems/brands and what would be the approx cost? Thanks

What P.W. system have you in place?
Some of the older systems can be self monitored.

pedroeibar1

Thank you bk and Koolkid.
On costs – we use the house a lot, so the Wi-Fi cost is not really a factor. I’m currently paying 35 a month to Phonewatch, but if I buy a router and get a Three a/c with 'all you can eat' data @20 pm I’m still saving considerably and visitors will have Wi-Fi. I’m fairly confident that Three will be 4G with an external ariel.
I should have mentioned that the cameras I require are external, topography is such that 2 externals will cover available access routes. I can live with recording activated by motion sensors, but I like the idea of being able to take a look, even if only to see what the weather is doing!
@Altor – the Phonewatch system was installed about 12-13 years ago, but I want external cameras.

altor

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

@Altor – the Phonewatch system was installed about 12-13 years ago, but I want external cameras.

Most of the older systems can be set up to ring your phone.
For CCTV you could install a separate CCTV system and use an app to view if alarm activates.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

. I can live with recording activated by motion sensors, but I like the idea of being able to take a look, even if only to see what the weather is doing!

I should clarify that even with the battery/motion activated cameras like Blink and Arlo, you can "live view" them any time you want. In other words you can open the camera in the app and view what is currently happening there (likely with a few seconds delay).

Though doing that a lot will run the battery down faster.

baby fish

Koolkid, would you mind confirming if the iRisco app is currently with or without an annual subscription please, I have been told there is an annual subscription to use the app now but I cant find any details as to how much it is?

KoolKid

Free to use over IP

baby fish

KoolKid wrote: »

Free to use over IP

Apologies for asking that again but I keep getting directed down a one way street as regards choice.

just In case im misunderstanding you when you say over ip is free, this to me means at moment the panel will connect to irisco cloud through a risco WiFi card ( or ethernet, but i feel ethernet cable is too awkward to run) to my home router.. and then usage of the app to remotely controll the alarm is free on my smartphone from anywhere in the world

KoolKid

baby fish wrote: »

Apologies for asking that again but I keep getting directed down a one way street as regards choice.

just In case im misunderstanding you when you say over ip is free, this to me means at moment the panel will connect to irisco cloud through a risco WiFi card ( or ethernet, but i feel ethernet cable is too awkward to run) to my home router.. and then usage of the app to remotely controll the alarm is free on my smartphone from anywhere in the world

That would be correct. There should only be charges if you were getting a GSM/GPRS managed SIM as a back up.

baby fish

Just a question about PIR's

Standard PIR, Quad PIR and dual technology PIR

I understand how the Standard and dual work, but not entirely sure how the quads work, but I'm going to get Quad's anyway as I'm hoping its a step up from the Standard PIR it might give less false alarms.Would this be a fair assumption?

Found it :
Quad divides an area into 4 sections, to activate the alarm both the upper and lower zones of the PIR need to be activated to trigger the alarm

pedroeibar1

bk wrote: »

I should clarify that even with the battery/motion activated cameras like Blink and Arlo, you can "live view" them any time you want. In other words you can open the camera in the app and view what is currently happening there (likely with a few seconds delay).

Though doing that a lot will run the battery down faster.

Thanks - just been looking at Arlo & Blink (prefer the former, also read good reports by Boardsies). Arlo also has solar panels for charging. Now have to get my head around separate -v- integrated systems.