jh79 wrote: » Much like Vera Twomey, he is a lay person, his M A is in Social Practice and the Creative Environment, who believes his personal experience of a an illness makes him an expert in that field. Combined with his celebrity status this makes him dangerous. He promotes psychotherapy and psychology over medication with proven efficacy.
optogirl wrote: » jh79 wrote: » He is suggesting several ways of practicing good mental health. He is not claiming to have a cure or indeed that he is right - he has said time & again that the above has helped him and that it's not for everybody. It's no worse than my telling a friend that doing yoga helped with a bad back. I'm not telling them not to go to a doctor, I'm telling them I personally got relief from yoga. He is claiming it is a solution to a collective problem highlighted in point 3 of the article. That is the context of point 4. "3. The mental health conversation in Ireland has exploded in recent times. Your homeland Limerick, like most cities, has dealt with at times many social issues which have foundations in an inability to deal or talk about emotional and mental health problems. What is your opinion on where we are going as a society when it comes to our collective mental health?"
jh79 wrote: » He is suggesting several ways of practicing good mental health. He is not claiming to have a cure or indeed that he is right - he has said time & again that the above has helped him and that it's not for everybody. It's no worse than my telling a friend that doing yoga helped with a bad back. I'm not telling them not to go to a doctor, I'm telling them I personally got relief from yoga.
jh79 wrote: » optogirl wrote: » 4. What can be done about this? Potential solutions. Make good mental health practice part of your daily life. You are an adult and you have the power to make this choice, even though you are a product of our culture you have the choice to not be defined by it. Read up about the likes of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, Transactional analysis, Emotional intelligence. Embrace them and apply them to your life.https://www.alustforlife.com/soul/10-questions-with/10-questions-with-blindboy-boatclub-from-the-rubberbandits He is suggesting several ways of practicing good mental health. He is not claiming to have a cure or indeed that he is right - he has said time & again that the above has helped him and that it's not for everybody. It's no worse than my telling a friend that doing yoga helped with a bad back. I'm not telling them not to go to a doctor, I'm telling them I personally got relief from yoga.
optogirl wrote: » 4. What can be done about this? Potential solutions. Make good mental health practice part of your daily life. You are an adult and you have the power to make this choice, even though you are a product of our culture you have the choice to not be defined by it. Read up about the likes of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, Transactional analysis, Emotional intelligence. Embrace them and apply them to your life.https://www.alustforlife.com/soul/10-questions-with/10-questions-with-blindboy-boatclub-from-the-rubberbandits
jh79 wrote: » optogirl wrote: » 4. What can be done about this? Potential solutions. Make good mental health practice part of your daily life. You are an adult and you have the power to make this choice, even though you are a product of our culture you have the choice to not be defined by it. Read up about the likes of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, Transactional analysis, Emotional intelligence. Embrace them and apply them to your life.https://www.alustforlife.com/soul/10-questions-with/10-questions-with-blindboy-boatclub-from-the-rubberbandits What poit are you making by quoting that rather sensible suggestion by Blindboy? I don t understand.
jh79 wrote: » Dannyriver wrote: » He claims transactional analysis is a possible solution to mental health issues, where is his evidence for that? When did he claim he was an expert in mental health...evidence No he didn t he cliamed TA was a way of understanding the self that has been very useful in his own life. There are many possible solutions to mental health issues understanding the self is just one, exercise and getting enough sleep and being careful around alcohol comsumption would be others. Do you need to see eveidence for all these or will you be ok with them being used by me as possible solutions.
Dannyriver wrote: » He claims transactional analysis is a possible solution to mental health issues, where is his evidence for that?
optogirl wrote: » jh79 wrote: » He claims nothing of the sort. He says it has helped him. 4. What can be done about this? Potential solutions. Make good mental health practice part of your daily life. You are an adult and you have the power to make this choice, even though you are a product of our culture you have the choice to not be defined by it. Read up about the likes of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, Transactional analysis, Emotional intelligence. Embrace them and apply them to your life.https://www.alustforlife.com/soul/10-questions-with/10-questions-with-blindboy-boatclub-from-the-rubberbandits
jh79 wrote: » He claims nothing of the sort. He says it has helped him.
jh79 wrote: » Dannyriver wrote: » He claims transactional analysis is a possible solution to mental health issues, where is his evidence for that? He claims nothing of the sort. He says it has helped him.
Dannyriver wrote: » jh79 wrote: » When did Blindboy say he was an expert in the field, evidence please? Has who provided any evidence for his theories? I don t know who you are talking about here? He claims transactional analysis is a possible solution to mental health issues, where is his evidence for that?
jh79 wrote: » When did Blindboy say he was an expert in the field, evidence please? Has who provided any evidence for his theories? I don t know who you are talking about here?
PlaneSpeeking wrote: » Interesting to read the "effects of feminism". That would perhaps be perfectly good, well qualified men being turned down for roles due to gender quotas. I've seen that - I also know someone perfect for a job who didn't get interviewed as they had women only shortlists. If you asked Germaine Greer and Camille Paglia et al as late as the 80s of the positive benefits of feminism, you'll get an answer. Now, I can think of none.
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » I am arguing the correct interpretation of a statement. So you are not wrong there, but it is a little dilute as a generalization of the discussion so far. I think there is a correct way to interpret what he said, and incorrect ones. A few people offered incorrect ones. So I got into a discussion on the correct one. Nothing wrong with that Not what I said no. This insistence on changing what people say into something else is baffling to me. The moment you find you have to tell me what I am arguing, rather than respond to what I am arguing, you should pause and ask why. No, what I am arguing is NOT that his perception is valid. Never said this. Even a little. What I AM arguing is that to interpret his statement correctly, you have to parse it through the definition he used. To parse it through a definition he is not using, will not allow you to parse his statement correctly. Again, nothing wrong with that Again (and again and again and again if you want to keep it up) no, this is simply not what I have done. Read this carefully as it is the crux of your entire error: I do not care, and have not commented on, whether his use of the word is valid. What I AM doing is saying that to correctly interpret his point you have to do so through the interpretation of the word he was using while making it. I might as well say you are not capable of using stilts. I have never seen you try, so I simply do not know if you can or not. Nothing I have been saying so far has required me to deal with the "effects of feminism". So you simply have no idea what I am or am not capable of there. I am perfectly happy to deal with what YOU think feminism means, and the effects of what you have defined. It is YOU that is not capable of accepting that that is a seperate conversation to the one I have been having. And until you are capable of making that distinction your choice to skip out of the conversation is a wise one.
jh79 wrote: » Dannyriver wrote: » Has he provided any evidence for his theories? When did Blindboy say he was an expert in the field, evidence please? Has who provided any evidence for his theories? I don t know who you are talking about here?
Dannyriver wrote: » Has he provided any evidence for his theories?
Deleted User wrote: » Hilarious. You're arguing semantics.
Deleted User wrote: » You have decided that Blindboys use of the word should be accepted simply because his perception is valid (according to you).
Deleted User wrote: » You'll simply retreat behind the idea that Blindboys individual perception of the word is valid and should be accepted.
Deleted User wrote: » You're not really capable of dealing with the effects of Feminism
Dannyriver wrote: » jh79 wrote: » Much like Vera Twomey, he is a lay person, his M A is in Social Practice and the Creative Environment, who believes his personal experience of a an illness makes him an expert in that field. Combined with his celebrity status this makes him dangerous. He promotes psychotherapy and psychology over medication with proven efficacy. This is what the always reliable Science Based Medicine has to say on these; "When tested, psychoanalysis was shown to be less effective than placebo. Its theories have been disproven, and no reasonable scientist or practitioner takes it seriously today. " "Psychotherapy Psychotherapeutic interventions in general have been remarkably unsuccessful. Only one of the many varieties of psychotherapy is supported by acceptable evidence: cognitive-behavioral therapy. There is no correlation between a therapist’s training or experience and patient outcomes. Amateurs get equal results. The benefits of psychotherapy may be no better than the benefits of talking to a friend; in a sense, psychotherapists are paid to act as friends, which could be considered a sort of prostitution."https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/psychology-and-psychotherapy-how-much-is-evidence-based/ When did he say he was an expert in the field...? To begin a statement with a blatant lie kind of makes **** of a person's credibility dont you think? If you want to believe the pharma industry regarding medication go ahead, Id prefer to look at the statistics around addiction to anti depressants and the rise of chemicals as the cure for difficulties people are having in their lives. You need to read more about the arguments against medication. Has he provided any evidence for his theories?
jh79 wrote: » Much like Vera Twomey, he is a lay person, his M A is in Social Practice and the Creative Environment, who believes his personal experience of a an illness makes him an expert in that field. Combined with his celebrity status this makes him dangerous. He promotes psychotherapy and psychology over medication with proven efficacy. This is what the always reliable Science Based Medicine has to say on these; "When tested, psychoanalysis was shown to be less effective than placebo. Its theories have been disproven, and no reasonable scientist or practitioner takes it seriously today. " "Psychotherapy Psychotherapeutic interventions in general have been remarkably unsuccessful. Only one of the many varieties of psychotherapy is supported by acceptable evidence: cognitive-behavioral therapy. There is no correlation between a therapist’s training or experience and patient outcomes. Amateurs get equal results. The benefits of psychotherapy may be no better than the benefits of talking to a friend; in a sense, psychotherapists are paid to act as friends, which could be considered a sort of prostitution."https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/psychology-and-psychotherapy-how-much-is-evidence-based/ When did he say he was an expert in the field...? To begin a statement with a blatant lie kind of makes **** of a person's credibility dont you think? If you want to believe the pharma industry regarding medication go ahead, Id prefer to look at the statistics around addiction to anti depressants and the rise of chemicals as the cure for difficulties people are having in their lives. You need to read more about the arguments against medication.
jh79 wrote: Again promoting personal experiences over robust scientific studies , surely you can see the flaws in such an attitude?
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » Raise your game please.
Wanderer78 wrote: » Hahaha, he's not dangerous at all, he's very well informed about mental health and social issues, I'm sure he's helping many people by being very helpful with his knowledge. Both fields have certainly helped me a lot, and many others that I've met, psychologists are far more than just friends, all I've met have been very knowledgeable in mental health issues, and how to deal with them
jh79 wrote: Much like Vera Twomey, he is a lay person, his M A is in Social Practice and the Creative Environment, who believes his personal experience of a an illness makes him an expert in that field. Combined with his celebrity status this makes him dangerous.
jh79 wrote: He promotes psychotherapy and psychology over medication with proven efficacy.
DickSwiveller Returns wrote: » Here is an example of some first class academic bollixhttp://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1097184x11428384 I challenge anyone to read the first paragraph and understand what the author is saying. Another one.https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14680777.2016.1120490?journalCode=rfms20 This is they type of nonsense I was confronted with in University,
Ush1 wrote: » I take the latest episode as another nail in the coffin of his sense of humour. Do people really think Tony McGregor was being serious in that video??
Deleted User wrote: » You're arguing that his perception of the word Feminism is different from mine.
Deleted User wrote: » However. You haven't shown in the slightest how my perception of Feminism is incorrect.
Deleted User wrote: » you seem to believe that Blindboy should be allowed to ignore what Feminism actually has done.
Deleted User wrote: » Out of curiousity, how do you know what he means by feminism?
Deleted User wrote: » Except it doesn't, and you have not shown how it does. For all your talk about us misunderstanding, or my bypassing statements, you tend to do the same thing.
Deleted User wrote: » You have not refuted a single statement of mine about Feminism.
Deleted User wrote: » You also have not answered the question about Feminism helping the mental health of Men.
Deleted User wrote: » You, yourself, are jumping around and arguing about the meaning of the word Feminism while ignoring that the truth that Feminism does not have the interests of males included.
Deleted User wrote: » Then he shouldn't have linked those four areas. Feminism, Equality, Gender roles, Mental Health. For Men.
Deleted User wrote: » You're defending his use of the word without actually dealing with the actual objections.
Deleted User wrote: » You have not shown either what form of Feminism Blindboy was referring to or how Feminism promotes equality. You have not shown how Feminism could positively contribute to the mental health of men.
Brian? wrote: » Was I arguing that sociology wasn't dominated by liberals? No I was not, because it is. What I was asking for was evidence that "the field of sociology is full of crackpot liberals." Unless you're making the argument that all liberals are crackpots, are you? Is he?
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » To you. But that is what HE defined it as WITHIN the point in which he used the term. So whether or not he used the word correctly is an argument you can take up with him. But it is a separate discussion. Whether you agree with how he defined the word "feminism" or not, if you stop to parse the point he made USING his definition of the word, there is little in the point to take exception to.
Except it does. But you just bypass that by making up other definitions of the word. AGAIN the point can be made without the use of the word feminism. Which is simply that one valid way to alleviate mental suffering caused from perceiving (real or imagined) differences between the sexes...... is to remove those differences or the perception of them.
There is nothing wrong in that point other than people getting triggered by that point being made using the word "Feminism". If he had made the EXACT same point without the trigger word, I doubt any of us would be here having this conversation at all. People are more interested in trigger linguistics than the actual substance of points made alas.
And as I said many times, including now several in THIS post alone..... I am not defending anyone's "statements on feminism". I am discussing the statement he made WHILE using the word feminism. A statement I have said numerous times could have been made without that word just as well, or perhaps even better.
But no one seems to want to discuss the actual statement in and of itself. They want to discuss the word feminism, through THEIR understanding of it rather than the understanding of it used in the context of that point. And I do not see that as an honest move to make. If you want to critique the use of the word, have at it. Not my problem. I have only been discussing the point he was making in which he used the word. A point that I have RE-made without using that word many times, only to have people contrive to keep making it about the word, and keep ignoring the actual point.
Dannyriver wrote: » I think the point that Nozz has been making [extremely well fair play to his doggedness] is that he [Blindboy] made the point perfectly well for those that weren t emotionally triggered by the word feminism. Anyone that wasn t triggered understood the point perfectly well as was said. Because you don t understand something doesn t make it not understandable for everyone. And as we all know words such as Racism/immigration/feminism cause heavy emotional reaction is certain people thus bypassing the part of the brain that deals with logic and rational thought.
kubjones wrote: » https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-social-science-politically-biased/ Feminine people are far more inclined to lean towards sociology. Comes down to natural biases. Feminine people are overwhelmingly Liberal (https://www.jstor.org/stable/2785804?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents). I did my M.A. in Psychology which was also occupied mostly by politically liberal people. Usually this is because Liberal people have a high empathy sensitivity and have more of an interest in people. I would also have considered myself a liberal up until about 4 years ago. So he's right. Statistically the Pscyh and Sociology fields are dominated by Liberal politics and the influence of which is highly evident in today's Universities. (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201210/why-liberal-hearts-bleed-and-conservatives-dont)
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » Which is the main thing that has been baffling me consistently during this entire conversation for the last couple of days now. Because he says WITHIN the comment which one he is using. He literally defines the word IN the comment where he is using the word. So how, at this juncture, someone can claim not to know is...... well it would be laugh out loud comedy if it was not so tragic. And this is exactly what I mean. The moment we climb past the trigger word we start saying things that we almost entirely agree with each other on. I would almost 100% say that everything you wrote in that paragraph is great stuff. Only with some pedantry I would change "Don't change for anther person" to "Be open to change for any reason, including for another person, but never feel you HAVE to". Which sounds to me almost exactly like the point Blindboy was making in the video in question. Again when we strip away the trigger word..... we suddenly find we are all singing from the same hymn sheet. Brilliant, isn't it a pity the phrase "The F word" is already taken? :P Me too. Alas I think this is mightily compounded by the fact the click bait and revenue driven media of our modern world is focused almost entirely on bringing us the utterances of such people. As you might have noticed (or not?) I have almost entirely avoided defending feminism at all on this thread. 98% of what I have written was defending nothing more than the correct interpretation of what I believe one individual ACTUALLY said over what many people are lining up to PRETEND he said. But feminism discussions in and of themselves, especially on line..... confuse me. I simply do not recognise the real world around me in what I read online. Like all the people commenting on feminism live in a completely different world to me. Like the guy earlier in the thread claiming all the women he "works with" (worried, but interested, as to what that work actually entails but he did not offer this) pick up men and then dump them when they are not getting enough "treats" from them. To say that does not describe the reality I have observed is an understatement. It is not that I have seen FEW women act that way. I have seen NO women act that way. At all. I am not saying they are lying or their reality does not exist. I am just saying that NOTHING from my reality tracks with what I read about men, and women, and what "men want" and what "women want" that I get in these online discussions. And I read so much of it. Women want men earning so much money. Women want men who are taller than such and such a height. Women want men who do X Y and Z without question. And so on. And then I pull my mind out of the online reality and back into the one around me..... and NOTHING maps on. Anywhere. So I simply feel precluded from those discussions, because I have no basis to agree or disagree with any of it.
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