Stephen15 wrote: » I agree but they shouldn't be in town they should be on the M50, The Eastlink or in The Port Tunnel and not in the city centre. I personally think if we removed the M50 toll we would get a considerable amount of cars off the city streets. I used to know who used they would drive through town to go from the Southside to Swords on a Saturday the reason given was they found the M50 'too boring' despite it being miles quicker.
IE 222 wrote: » The M50 is no help inside the Canals and is jammed as is.
Dravokivich wrote: » Get rid of on street parking in the city. You've loads of extra space right there. Multi story car parks are a potential solution that's not used, because you've still got cars coming into the city. A lot of major roads lead through the city. I'd suggest most of the traffic is through traffic. At least 95% of the time I'm driving there, Dublin City is not my destination. Someone will need to re-evaluate what was the purpose of the M50 and see what can be done to stop directing us "low capacity vehicles" into the city.
NewbridgeIR wrote: » I work in the city centre and take the train in and out. For most of the time, it works out fine. I have no parking space and find driving in the city stressful when it's busy. However if I am going out in the city centre (meal, pub, gig, club), I now tend to drive in as I can park for free on the quays after 7.00pm and I don't have to worry about catching last bus or train. I don't think that getting rid of street parking is the answer - during the day it's very costly and I imagine consists of people travelling in for meetings rather than parking for hours on end.
monument wrote: » It is, but it is not unrealistic to think that the vast bulk of people making these car trips can instead use a mix of: Walking Cycling Bus Tram Train Metro Car park and bike Car park and ride Car share And some drive directly All major routes lead into the city centre and nearly all of them are detrunked at the M50 and have other options for diverting before the city centre. The bulk of people using cars in the city centre are staring inside and around the M50 aren’t going that far — the people starting beyond that are a minority and most of those aren’t giving into the depths of the city centre. For example, most people commuting from far out are driving to locations out near the M50. Still a small percentage of people who work when there’s no public transport and cycling won’t meet their meet their needs. We’re also going to see better cross-city public transport and cycle routes. This image of the commuter belt expanding really needs challenging — the commuter belt would have to expand massively for it to outnumber the volume of people who live in Dublin City and Suburbs and areas just beyond such which have or will have decent enough public transport. It doesn’t have to. Some people will still drive to outer locations, others will use existing or improved public transport links — both direct or at a park and ride. Others will mix driving or car pooling or trains etc with cycling. It’s not about “difficult for car users” — it’s about providing alternatives. Your suggestion of providing a motorway along the central section of the Grand Canal is 1970s thinking. Now that it is widely known how poorly cars are in cities, and the area is already fairly heavily populated with homes and workplaces. But a tiny fraction of your vision of motorways along the central canals. Zero need to CPO car parks — provide entry to the Brown Thomas car park on one side and, if needed, provide entry/exit to the other tiny car parks from the other end of the street. Is it just one now of any note if the AA’s is redevelopment? This can be done without CPOs: http://irishcycle.com/2017/08/10/is-it-time-for-a-car-free-south-william-street-in-dublin/
Stephen15 wrote: » When a large percentage of cars shouldn't be inside the canals they should be on the M50. Nobody from the Southside should be in the city centre if they are going to Santry, The Airport, Swords or beyond they should be on the M50 or in the Port Tunnel.
IE 222 wrote: » Well the Port Tunnel costs a €10 and another €2 or so on the eastlink so that's hardly appealing. Depending on were you live in the on the south side trying to get onto the M50 could double your journey time. There should ring roads that allow motorists to bypass the heart of the city.
Often you’re only taking about a few hundred people in cars per hour on many routes — easily transferred to other modes.
Shefwedfan wrote: » Easy answer, start at castleknock gates of park and draw a big red circle.....anything inside that circle is shut down to cars apart from Residents in area Taxi Delivery vehicles Construction if they can show the only way to get access Everyone else either on bike/bus/train
AndrewJRenko wrote: » DCC have something like 400-500 spaces at Wood Quay, and over 10k staff, so it doesn't like a huge problem to me.
IE 222 wrote: » We can offer all the PT in the world for free there will still be people who will use private car's to commute. For some its not a choice its a necessity. Most commuters working in the heart of the city use PT its were PT doesn't provide a link from house to work place that leads to car's passing through the city centre. The M50 is kind of irrelevant to city centre traffic. The M50 doesn't offer any realistic releaf to the city centre. For example if someone needs to commute from Clontraf to James St. they will need to travel through the city centre, M50 does nothing in this case. These are the type of journeys that causing the issues. The only people using the M50 are people working along it or heading out of Dublin.
IE 222 wrote: » There should ring roads that allow motorists to bypass the heart of the city.
Mrs OBumble wrote: » Home-care workers. Public health nurses. Environmental health staff. Rubblsh collections. Tradespeople (you'll never get a plumber to fix your blocked toilet if s/he needs to go an prove things to road-police first). Housing officers. Debt collectors. Surveyors. Valuers. Interior decorators. Lawyers / doctors / physios / hairdressers visiting house-bound elder clients. Elderly and disabled people who cannot manage the bus and rely on lifts from family and friends to visit places in town. Parents taking kids to creches in the zone. A zillion other things I've not thought of. I'm a major public transport advocate, and actually bother my hole to do a lot to encourage it. But individual vehicles (powered and manual, two wheels or four) aren't evil. They are part of the overall personal transport infrastructure.
Shefwedfan wrote: » Majority of the task's listed above do not require a car. Are you really telling me that if a city centre is blocked off that no trademan in Ireland would ever go near it again? Please explain why lawyers need a car? also a doctor going to a hospital needs a car for what reason? maybe an emergency GP but they would travel under emergency service banner. Also seriously a hairdresser? :P I won't even ask why a debt collector needs a car? also how you would come up with that as a job that needs to be considered for a public transport discussion. Does he/she need to carry their work tools? For the few that might require a car then zero emission would be a requirement. Cars are not evil. It is the people driving them that are just lazy. It is easier to walk out the door and jump into a car, then moan rest of day about the traffic. It is harder to use imagination and say I can get to work/etc via bus/train/and God help us all a bicycle. If you really can think of a zillion other things and are a public transport advocate as you claim, think of those zillion things and write beside them why it can't be done on public transport? I bet I could give a zillion simple solutions to majority of them
Dravokivich wrote: » I left my car in work to go for a few beers on friday. It took me 2 hours to get from clondalkin to leixlip by public transport, to collect my car from work. Imagination isn't lacking from anyone other than those who are meant to be running the system.
Mrs OBumble wrote: » But you have no idea what those people were doing before and after you saw them in their car. Eg - dropping two kids at creche - not so easily moved to another mode. Coming from the country to take out an elderly relative - ditto. Home-care workers. Public health nurses. Environmental health staff. Rubblsh collections. Tradespeople (you'll never get a plumber to fix your blocked toilet if s/he needs to go an prove things to road-police first). Housing officers. Debt collectors. Surveyors. Valuers. Interior decorators. Lawyers / doctors / physios / hairdressers visiting house-bound elder clients. Elderly and disabled people who cannot manage the bus and rely on lifts from family and friends to visit places in town. Parents taking kids to creches in the zone. A zillion other things I've not thought of. I'm a major public transport advocate, and actually bother my hole to do a lot to encourage it. But individual vehicles (powered and manual, two wheels or four) aren't evil. They are part of the overall personal transport infrastructure.
Shefwedfan wrote: » Less than 15km.....you would have cycled that in less
Shefwedfan wrote: » Less than 15km.....you would have cycled that in less Also double bonus as you would be healthier and also get rid of all those alcohol toxins Where there's a will there's a way
magicbastarder wrote: » while drunk in charge of a pedal cycle.
heroics wrote: » What if they don't want to cycle? The problem with all the people pushing public transport is that you can't see why people like their car. If its raining I don't want to cycle 15Km from leixlip to clondalkin or anywhere else. Also get me from North Wicklow to Blanch by 5:30am using PT and home at 1pm. By car its 30-40 mins each way. I own a car anyway so comparing costs from PT to car ownership and including all of them is not really a valid comparison. I am paying for that anyway whether I take PT or not as I like my car.
heroics wrote: » I own a car anyway so comparing costs from PT to car ownership and including all of them is not really a valid comparison. I am paying for that anyway whether I take PT or not as I like my car.
troyzer wrote: » Until public transport can get me from my house (Lucan) to my office (Ballsbridge) in half an hour like my car can, I'm simply not going to use it. My car has so many sunk costs like car insurance and tax (nearly €2.5k a year) that I'm paying anyway whether I use it or not. To get public transport into work I wouldn't be able to make my 7:00 AM start without being either really early or really late and would likely have to take at least two buses over the space of an hour to an hour and a half to get in. Why would I pay extra to start work later and spend two or three times as long in traffic? A bus pass costs another grand or so a year. It's madness. I'd love to be able to get decent public transport to work like I did before in Australia but it just doesn't work here and I can never see it working.
Shefwedfan wrote: » The government has 2 options. A straight out ban of all cars in city centre as I posted above. Or a congestion charge, personally I would go with 20 euro per day. Shutting down on street parking as much as possible as well. Make driving into city centre an absolute nightmare for people....
Shefwedfan wrote: » The masses will not change till it hits their pocket. They will always find an excuse, a reason why it won't work. If they are paying 100 euro per week just to drive into city centre suddenly those reasons will disappear.
magicbastarder wrote: » it's probably also important to understand why people are driving into the city. are they driving in because they're already going to be coming a sizable distance where public transport is not feasible, but there aren't adequate park and ride facilities on the outskirts to complete the journey? or because they've a free parking space and 'may as well use it'?
Shefwedfan wrote: » troyzer wrote: » Until public transport can get me from my house (Lucan) to my office (Ballsbridge) in half an hour like my car can, I'm simply not going to use it. My car has so many sunk costs like car insurance and tax (nearly €2.5k a year) that I'm paying anyway whether I use it or not. To get public transport into work I wouldn't be able to make my 7:00 AM start without being either really early or really late and would likely have to take at least two buses over the space of an hour to an hour and a half to get in. Why would I pay extra to start work later and spend two or three times as long in traffic? A bus pass costs another grand or so a year. It's madness. I'd love to be able to get decent public transport to work like I did before in Australia but it just doesn't work here and I can never see it working. Public transport will not improve till more people use it, more money and then more investment. Of course PT can get you into city centre/ballsbridge in same time a car could, the problem is people are not using the PT so they have to run infrequent service or it will run at a loss. The government has 2 options. A straight out ban of all cars in city centre as I posted above. Or a congestion charge, personally I would go with 20 euro per day. Shutting down on street parking as much as possible as well. Make driving into city centre an absolute nightmare for people.... The masses will not change till it hits their pocket. They will always find an excuse, a reason why it won't work. If they are paying 100 euro per week just to drive into city centre suddenly those reasons will disappear.
troyzer wrote: » Shefwedfan wrote: » troyzer wrote: » Until public transport can get me from my house (Lucan) to my office (Ballsbridge) in half an hour like my car can, I'm simply not going to use it. My car has so many sunk costs like car insurance and tax (nearly €2.5k a year) that I'm paying anyway whether I use it or not. To get public transport into work I wouldn't be able to make my 7:00 AM start without being either really early or really late and would likely have to take at least two buses over the space of an hour to an hour and a half to get in. Why would I pay extra to start work later and spend two or three times as long in traffic? A bus pass costs another grand or so a year. It's madness. I'd love to be able to get decent public transport to work like I did before in Australia but it just doesn't work here and I can never see it working. Public transport will not improve till more people use it, more money and then more investment. Of course PT can get you into city centre/ballsbridge in same time a car could, the problem is people are not using the PT so they have to run infrequent service or it will run at a loss. The government has 2 options. A straight out ban of all cars in city centre as I posted above. Or a congestion charge, personally I would go with 20 euro per day. Shutting down on street parking as much as possible as well. Make driving into city centre an absolute nightmare for people.... The masses will not change till it hits their pocket. They will always find an excuse, a reason why it won't work. If they are paying 100 euro per week just to drive into city centre suddenly those reasons will disappear. It doesn't get me there quicker. I have to leave an hour earlier to get there at the same time via PT. It's ridiculous. Loads of people already use public transport but as has been said repeatedly, there is a small subset of people who just aren't properly served on either the basis of time of day or location. I tick both boxes. I have off street parking which I don't pay for. Making me pay a congestion charge is silly because there's very little traffic at that time of day anyway. Which makes it even more astonishing that the bus can take up to an hour and a half. The masses will change when public transport is more convienent. Making driving less convenient is an awful way of forcing people onto public transport which is over capacity, expensive and inefficient.
monument wrote: » Really? Does Amsterdam or Utrecht have a congestion charge?
troyzer wrote: » I don't think you should be looking at public transport in terms of profitability. Whether or not a route makes money shouldn't matter. Public transport can and should create its own demand. The Luas did this very well, Ryanair is famous for creating demand in routes simply by being cheap. Public transport can do the same simply by being efficient. I would hopefully pay a small premium to get into work on PT even if meant ten or fifteen minutes longer. The problem is it's much, much, much longer.
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