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Let's all talk about Lewis?

Joeseph Balls

I'm not a Lewis hater, nor a fan.
I dislike the guy out of the car but this shouldn't cloud our judgement.
How close is he to being one of the greats?
Driving ability, he has to be up there?
I still think Alonso is a better driver or is this becoming a cliche?
His car has been an advantage, with Ferrari now very close, is it time we give him credit?
Is he just a very good driver, with a very good car, or are we witnessing an all time great?

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Atoms for Peace

If you can't say anything nice...

Spudman_20000

We really got to see the yin and yang with Lewis in Silverstone. Got pole with an excellent lap. Awful start but was on course for an excellent recovery drive on Sunday even without the safety cars. Finishes second after being dead last, gets out of the car and stomps off and then accuses Ferrari drivers of deliberately taking out Merc cars.

A driver with his experience and talent should really know better at this stage. He does himself no favours with his attitude, but maybe this is the way he deals with adversity and motivates himself. It's a pretty ugly approach though, and can't see how some people are surprised at how much hate he gets.

TCP/IP

What Lewis said about Nico's clothes at the British GP interview just summed him up to be a terrible bitter human being.
I can admit that I am 100% not a fan of Lewis but I respect his four championships but he is a completely horrible human being.

Also, I am not one of the people that buy into this Fernando hype that he is one of the GOAT honestly I don't see it or even close to it.
I think in equal cars over a season Vettel wins every time over Lewis as he is a smarter racer.
Now that the Mercedes party modes are less effective we are seeing Hamilton struggle slightly whereas before he was pretty much guaranteed pole and the race win.

Slutmonkey57b

I'm not sure there's anything new to say about the guy. There's no way you can watch some of his qualifying sessions, or see him carve his way up from the back (where fast teammates like button or rosberg wouldn't make the same progress), or see that any team principal on the grid would kill to get him in the car, and not see that he's one of the greats. When the helmet goes on, he leaves nothing on the table most of the time, and Lewis on a bad day is still faster than most of the grid, past or present. He's not unbeatable, but neither was fangio, Clark, Schumacher, lauda or senna.

Equally, out of the car you've a pretty good chance that he'll swing between being a smug tosser and a guy who signs autographs all day long. It's unlikely his personality is going to change at this point.

He's human, whether you like him or not, you've probably made up your mind by now.

the_pen_turner

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I'm not sure there's anything new to say about the guy. There's no way you can watch some of his qualifying sessions, or see him carve his way up from the back (where fast teammates like button or rosberg wouldn't make the same progress), or see that any team principal on the grid would kill to get him in the car, and not see that he's one of the greats. When the helmet goes on, he leaves nothing on the table most of the time, and Lewis on a bad day is still faster than most of the grid, past or present. He's not unbeatable, but neither was fangio, Clark, Schumacher, lauda or senna.

Equally, out of the car you've a pretty good chance that he'll swing between being a smug tosser and a guy who signs autographs all day long. It's unlikely his personality is going to change at this point.

He's human, whether you like him or not, you've probably made up your mind by now.

i agree he is very good . beter than most. but i dont see him a one of the greats. he might make top 10 at a push.
to me has never battled his way up the grid. it is easy to lead the race like he has a lot (so has vettle and schumacher ) but really shows skill to properly overtake .

he also needs to show that ability to nurse the car home with huge problems like schumacher with his gear issue .

he doesnt seem to be able to drive to a odd stratagy like other great drivers.

if he can do that he would be a great driver

Slutmonkey57b

There have been plenty of examples in his career where he's driven to the front from the back. The drive that got him his f1 seat from gp2 is just one such drive. In the McLaren days, he often ended up behind button and breezed past him, and Button was capable of beating him in qualifying and race pace on more than one occasion.

Top 10 out of all the drivers in history *is* "one of the greats".

I think you're really stretching here.

the_pen_turner

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

There have been plenty of examples in his career where he's driven to the front from the back. The drive that got him his f1 seat from gp2 is just one such drive. In the McLaren days, he often ended up behind button and breezed past him, and Button was capable of beating him in qualifying and race pace on more than one occasion.

Top 10 out of all the drivers in history *is* "one of the greats".

I think you're really stretching here.

there is probably only 4-5 true greats .
lewis isnt one yet anyway
being top 10 is still incredibly good

its not about driving from the back to the front. its about battling your way there against all the odds. look at the last race . last to second. great drive but not a ledgendary fight back. most of the cars drove off the racing line to let him past or put up no resistance at all. safety car helped with the last few positions gained. lewis did nothing special there that most really good drivers would have done.

good driver + great car + practically backmarkers= loads of easy positions gained

Ghost Train

I think he has lots of talent driving the car, I'd probably put him slightly ahead of Vettel. Do try a give him the benefit of the doubt but it's hard to like the way he acts sometimes, mainly when things don't go his way.

Inviere

TCP/IP wrote: »

Now that the Mercedes party modes are less effective we are seeing Hamilton struggle slightly whereas before he was pretty much guaranteed pole and the race win.

It’s reminiscent of Vettel at Red Bull. Years of domination ends in the new regs, and he retreats into his sulky shell, being absolutely obliterated by Ricciardo in the process.

TCP/IP

Inviere wrote: »

It’s reminiscent of Vettel at Red Bull. Years of domination ends in the new regs, and he retreats into his sulky shell, being absolutely obliterated by Ricciardo in the process.

Would agree with you there but that 2014 RB car was not one that suited Seb's driving style and was completely different to the RB cars previously. Also I think Seb had checked out that season as he knew he was not sticking around and was off to join his new team.

meeeeh

TCP/IP wrote: »

Would agree with you there but that 2014 RB car was not one that suited Seb's driving style and was completely different to the RB cars previously. Also I think Seb had checked out that season as he knew he was not sticking around and was off to join his new team.

Plus he needed to be less than third in the standings at certain point in the season to get out of Red Bull contract. Hamilton was beaten twice by teammates and yet so much is done out of that Red Bull season. I just read an old article on Ferrari machinations that season. It blindsided Alonso completely and he assumed his negotiating position was a lot stronger because they were supposedly no top drivers available for the next year.

TCP/IP

What will be very interesting is if Hamilton thinks that Ferrari have got their **** together and he sees them as his best chance of winning more championships is their talks going on between Hamiltons representatives and Ferrari. I for one hope there is not as he would be toxic for the team he is not what I class a typical Ferrari driver but hey stranger things have happened over the years.

tipp_tipp_tipp

I would actually consider myself a Hamilton fan, as I think he's exceptionally talented behind the wheel, but god he's become such an odd character in recent years. Just listening to him today, "love conquers all". Just bizarre. Is this him trying to make up for years at McLaren where he was a corporate puppet under Ron Dennis? Good win for him today, though not the amazing drive a small number of people are suggesting, things very much landed on his lap. Think he will win the championship this year. We may not ever again see Hamilton and Vettel in such equal cars, so enjoying it while it lasts.

oceanman

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

I would actually consider myself a Hamilton fan, as I think he's exceptionally talented behind the wheel, but god he's become such an odd character in recent years. Just listening to him today, "love conquers all". Just bizarre. Is this him trying to make up for years at McLaren where he was a corporate puppet under Ron Dennis? Good win for him today, though not the amazing drive a small number of people are suggesting, things very much landed on his lap. Think he will win the championship this year. We may not ever again see Hamilton and Vettel in such equal cars, so enjoying it while it lasts.

I wouldn't be that sure he will win the championship this year, still a long way to go and Ferrari now seem to have the speed to equal Mercedes, a fight to the death I would say..

Gamb!t

TCP/IP wrote: »

What Lewis said about Nico's clothes at the British GP interview just summed him up to be a terrible bitter human being.
I can admit that I am 100% not a fan of Lewis but I respect his four championships but he is a completely horrible human being.

Also, I am not one of the people that buy into this Fernando hype that he is one of the GOAT honestly I don't see it or even close to it.
I think in equal cars over a season Vettel wins every time over Lewis as he is a smarter racer.
Now that the Mercedes party modes are less effective we are seeing Hamilton struggle slightly whereas before he was pretty much guaranteed pole and the race win.

What did he say ?

Seannew1

Great thread! Very good driver(not in the same league as Senna, Prost, Schumacher); however, extremely unlikeable (seems to like rubbing everyone up the wrong way).

PukkaStukka

Seannew1 wrote: »

Great thread! Very good driver(not in the same league as Senna, Prost, Schumacher); however, extremely unlikeable (seems to like rubbing everyone up the wrong way).

Agree. Hamilton is a good driver but it all goes wrong for him when he opens his mouth.

Seannew1

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Agree. Hamilton is a good driver but it all goes wrong for him when he opens his mouth.

I really miss Rosberg actually. When he was at Mercedes, he really got under Hamilton's skin. I think Bottas is just happy to be at Mercedes.

Dog Man Star

Hamilton has under-achieved. He's been in the best car for the last 11 years and has won 4 world championships. He missed out to Raikkonen, Button and Rosberg, three distinctly average drivers. He is a talented driver. I would rank him equal to Hakkinen for that mixture of aggression and consistency. Alonso is slightly better. The likes of Schumacher, Prost are well ahead of him.

As for the man himself, he's been in this game since he was a child, so I don't have any problems with him being arrogant, he's never known any other life. He's also the first successful black driver, so I put him there with Tiger Woods as a role model. It can't have been easy for him going to social events surrounded by rich white males in places like Monte Carlo, where you are looked down upon for your clothes, never mind your race.

You have to be an arrogant POS to be in F1. They all were, some were just better at hiding it than others...!

One thing I don't like about him is criticising the team over the radio, for the benefit of the TV audience.

Other than that, I can see him winning 6 championships, maybe 7, and he will be remembered as a great. Stats aren't everything in F1 though, few consider Schumacher and Fangio as the best drivers of all time.

Rossi IRL

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Hamilton has under-achieved. He's been in the best car for the last 11 years and has won 4 world championships.

Now that's just simply not true.

Inviere

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Hamilton has under-achieved. He's been in the best car for the last 11 years

That’s probably the worst sentence ever posted in this forum, and that’s saying something

conzy

He's just so hard to like. His whinging on the radio, his persona, his 'love conquers all' shíte, crying / praying at the car in Hockenheim. Not to mention the way hes treated by the UK media. Same nonsense with Murray in the Tennis etc

I wish he was likeable.

Dog Man Star

Inviere wrote: »

That’s probably the worst sentence ever posted in this forum, and that’s saying something

When was his car not the best?

Gwynplaine

He's good, but not a great.
How did Sherzinger waste so much time with him as his beard. What a shame, and a waste.

Anjobe

Dog Man Star wrote: »

When was his car not the best?

Its not even the best car now, ffs!

The first season that Hamilton drove for the team that won the constructors championship was 2014, his 8th season in F1.

Anjobe

conzy wrote: »

He's just so hard to like. His whinging on the radio, his persona, his 'love conquers all' shíte, crying / praying at the car in Hockenheim. Not to mention the way hes treated by the UK media. Same nonsense with Murray in the Tennis etc

I wish he was likeable.

Is the UK media not allowed to celebrate British sporting success?

Inviere

Dog Man Star wrote: »

When was his car not the best?

Yeah, no.

Hurling Rankings

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Hurling Rankings

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Schorpio

Hurling Rankings wrote: »

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Ah here. I agree with the majority of your post, but that bit just isn't true. McLaren are widely believed to have had the best car in 2012, but lost the season on reliability issues. Link