pobber1 wrote: » Hi all, I'm considering moving from a permanent role into a contracting role. In terms of timing, will companies consider a contractor who may not be able to start for 3-4 weeks (i.e. notice period)? I would have thought most of them would like someone who can start straight away.
John_Mc wrote: » Depends on the need. They'll wait for the right developer if they have to. Contractors don't like being out of work and will be interviewing in the months before their current contracts ends just like perm. developers.
pobber1 wrote: » I know this is a very open question but what kind of rates are available for full stack .Net devs with 10 years experience? I see rates from 350 to 450, is that representative?
14ned wrote: » I've not been hired for a contract yet by a multinational in less than eight weeks. It takes that long for the colossus to move working at maximum speed. Everybody will say "two weeks" or "next week", then it gets pushed back, then somebody somewhere didn't send some email and so on. Eight weeks is end to end, so from when the recruiter first communicates with you up to start date. Startups can move far quicker. Two weeks from from communication is easily doable. Niall
John_Mc wrote: » 350 is on the low side. In Dublin you could get 500 a day, maybe more.
John_Mc wrote: » 350 is on the low side. In Dublin you could get 500 a day, maybe more. I'm pretty much the same profile as you and getting an average daily rate in Dublin down the country which I'm very happy with but the contracting roles outside of Dublin are rare enough.
pobber1 wrote: » Wow, I really didn't 500 would be possible. Would that be for a team lead role?
John_Mc wrote: » No but you'd have to be senior and have good experience. Previous experience as a tech lead would obviously allow you to look for more money.
John_Mc wrote: » Companies don't hire their tech leads as contractors though. They hire them to code for specific time limited projects
awec wrote: » Remember you have to pay your tax, PRSI etc from that. You get no paid holidays, no perks like paid health insurance etc. A lot of people look at contracting rates and compare it directly with their daily salary and think they could get a far better deal. But when all the figures are crunched you may not be that better off, and contracting comes with a whole different set of stresses.
pobber1 wrote: » What percentage increase over permanent salary plus perks would make taking a contract worth the extra stress? I'm thinking 20-30%.
pobber1 wrote: » Can anyone recommend a good contracting recruitment agency?
14ned wrote: » You don't usually get to choose, you take what the market is willing to pay you. It usually comes out at about a 10% risk premium over permanent on average for a 12 month contract. But that masks a lot of per-contract variation, some contracts will be below permanent equivalent, others above. Permanent salaries are much more sticky than contract day rates.
pobber1 wrote: » I suppose that percentage will vary from person to person, I'd find it difficult to take on the extra stress of contracting for 10%.
14ned wrote: » As I often repeat on here, choose contracting for the lifestyle, not the income. Unlike in the UK or other European countries, there aren't the tax gains here as there are elsewhere, and most expenses are not deductible. Once you do the sums, there isn't much income gain here, unless you can work from home at least three days a week to ensure that your "place of work" as according to Revenue is not at the client's site. Now, if you can move your "place of work" to your home, it's a whole different ball game. Then it becomes very lucrative to go into contracting. I was doing that up until last year, and I was phenomenally wealthy. Here onsite in Dublin with €15k of extra overheads which cannot be expensed, it's not worth it. Niall
pobber1 wrote: » Interesting. I presume moving your "place of work" to your home has an impact on your home insurance?
14ned wrote: » Only if customers ever visit your premises. Which as a 100% remote worker, they would not. The gains are being able to offset up to 25% of all your home costs against pre-tax income. Plus no commuting costs, plus being able to live in rural Ireland where €500/month will rent you a three bedroom semi with ample garden. Niall
pobber1 wrote: » Thanks for all the information. I presume setting up a limited company is the most tax efficient? What level of professional identity insurance is advised?
pobber1 wrote: » I presume setting up a limited company is the most tax efficient?
pobber1 wrote: » What level of professional identity insurance is advised?
AnswerIs42 wrote: » Hi folks, I'm considering taking the plunge into the contracting role and just wanted to check if I am missing something. I'm a .net full stack developer with > 10 years experience. My current salary is €75k in a permenant role. There are no extras (pension, healthcare...etc). If I landed a contract with a day rate of €450 then in theory I could earn 220 * 450 = €99k a year factoring in holidays/sick leave. That's ~12k net different to me. Is there anything else I should be factoring in before taking the plunge? Thanks for any pointers.
Graham wrote: » Not worth it for a 12k difference to be honest. One lean year would wipe out any financial advantage.
John_Mc wrote: » If you're in Dublin and are full stack with in demand tech (Angular, React etc) then you could get more than 450 a day. I have roughly the same profile as you and was on 475 without negotiating too hard and that was 18 months ago. Your maths are correct but there's the cost of running the business. If you're private limited then you need to do accounts every year and this costs about €1200 plus VAT. If you go under an umbrella company then that will cost you about €100 a month. I started contracting in 2012 and read then that if you plan on doing it for more than a year then go with your own private limited company. You have far more control over things and there's loads of information out there telling you what's what with contracting. A good accountant will get you up and running too. I use Bullet HQ (no affiliation other than being a happy customer) and it simplifies everything. Automatically generates your VAT and Income Tax forms so you just need to upload them to Revenue. Things are changing with ROS in January 2019 though and I'm not sure how they'll evolve to cater for it. Going back to the maths, there are other advantages which are hard to quantify. You can put your mobile phone bill and internet through your company as legitimate costs so you save on the VAT and you're paying it out of revenue before income tax. It makes a difference to your net income. E.g If your mobile phone bill is €30 now then you need to earn about €60 gross as a PAYE employee to be able to pay that. When you put it through the company, it's before you pay income tax on it so it's only €30, but €5.60 of that is VAT so it's refundable. There's also the small benefit scheme where you can reward yourself with a €500 voucher once a year. You'd have to pay yourself over €1000 in gross income to avail of that if the scheme did not exist. Then there's the ability to get yourself a good computer and mobile phone through the company as these are required by you to operate. It's a nice perk to have and completely legitimate. I work with other contractors who are under umbrella companies and even being able to buy a computer or phone is a headache as they grill you on why you need it. I have not been a day out of work since starting in October 2012 and cannot see the demand for experience developers reducing in the short-medium term, except for the impact of a hard brexit. Full timers will be affected by that too although they will get redundancy.
AnswerIs42 wrote: » Thanks for the replies folks. I don't have client side framework (just raw javascript and jquery) in my locker but I can take the time to learn it. Under the assumption that I could get 475 then the maths changes to ~14.5k better off. Factoring in your points about phone, hardware...maybe transport costs?? I could stretch the net difference to maybe ~15.5k. I have an accountant in the family who could do that side of things for free with a private limited company so that would be sorted. Just two question: 1. Do you buy your own subscriptions to visual studio and other tools? 2. Are you expected to wear a shirt and tie everyday? that could be a deal breaker for me
John_Mc wrote: » Definitely no harm in learning new JS frameworks, even if you don't go contracting. jQuery is fairly stale these days. I'd recommend Angular 4/5, Typescript, or React with Redux. You cannot claim mileage or transport expenses from home to your normal place of work - be careful of that. You can still avail of the tax saver transport scheme I think though. 1) No you don't use your equipment at work. At least I haven't anywhere I've worked (5 or 6 places at this stage) 2) Depends on the employer. I think it's rare to have to dress smart casual unless your client is a consultancy or bank. That's a question you ask in interview. Speaking of interviews - they're a lot easier because it's all about what you bring on a technical level. There's no politics in the office either and no performance management either. Things are a lot more straight forward. By moving around you learn a lot more too. What works well and what doesn't - and this makes you a stronger developer .
John_Mc wrote: » You cannot claim mileage or transport expenses from home to your normal place of work - be careful of that. You can still avail of the tax saver transport scheme I think though.
John_Mc wrote: » 1) No you don't use your equipment at work. At least I haven't anywhere I've worked (5 or 6 places at this stage)
John_Mc wrote: » 2) Depends on the employer. I think it's rare to have to dress smart casual unless your client is a consultancy or bank. That's a question you ask in interview.
By moving around you learn a lot more too. What works well and what doesn't - and this makes you a stronger developer .
I work with other contractors who are under umbrella companies and even being able to buy a computer or phone is a headache as they grill you on why you need it.
