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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

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Leroy42

So apparently, its not just one recording that Cohen has that the FBI now have, but 12. And you can bet there are more.

It certainly has the feeling that Cohen is flipping, and that can only spell more trouble for Trump.

Townton

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So, Trump wants to revoke the security clearances of former intelligence officials because they have not geneflected to their dear leader. Those officials have actually done the United States some service unlike Jared Kushner who for some baffling reason still has some kind of security clearance even though he has no qualifications to hold any security clearance. His only qualification appears to be that he's the President's son in law which isn't a valid reason IMO.

Using that reasoning why on earth should Obama have been allowed to appoint Ben Rhodes? The man's only qualification up until then was in creative writing, literally that was what he majored in.

everlast75

Townton wrote: »

Using that reasoning why on earth should Obama have been allowed to appoint Ben Rhodes? The man's only qualification up until then was in creative writing, literally that was what he majored in.

I think you're missing the point the previous poster is making.
His argument is the withdrawal of clearance whereas yours seems to be about under qualified people getting clearance?

As for Trump's idea, it really doesn't seem like a good idea that when you deny demanding loyalty from Comey before firing him, to then go on and try punish the intel community for not being loyal?

batgoat

Townton wrote: »

Using that reasoning why on earth should Obama have been allowed to appoint Ben Rhodes? The man's only qualification up until then was in creative writing, literally that was what he majored in.

Rhodes was working in politics for years at that stage, he was involved with the compilation of the 911 commission and the Iraq Study Group Report. So that's considerable political experience. So it's substantially different.

Franz Von Peppercorn

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I wonder how long low wage workers will bask in the warm glow of economic nationalism when every single thing made in China becomes 20% more expensive.
Will they still cheer and clap when The Donald tries to blame that on Mexicans?

Economic nationalism (ie tarrifs) are hit and miss. Some sectors gain, some don’t.

And if Chinese goods are too expensive then companies may build in the US. Plenty of counties use this kind of economic protectionism including the EU. Or use it to protect industry or agriculture.

In fact there’s a guy in prison in Ireland for importing garlic as apples, or onions.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Leroy42 wrote: »

So apparently, its not just one recording that Cohen has that the FBI now have, but 12. And you can bet there are more.

It certainly has the feeling that Cohen is flipping, and that can only spell more trouble for Trump.

These are recordings with trump? Is that admissible?

everlast75

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

These are recordings with trump? Is that admissible?

They are admissible as Trump has waived his attorney Client privilege

Water John

The indications were that, this recording is the most revelent. Nothing much in the others except arranging meeting times etc.

Leroy42

Water John wrote: »

The indications were that, this recording is the most revelent. Nothing much in the others except arranging meeting times etc.

Yes, the point is that clearly the FBI have a huge amount of stuff relating to Trump and Cohen. That Cohen kept these recordings indicates that he was wary of covering his back, for a time such as this when he might be in trouble.

So Trump is now faced with the possibility that if anything untoward was undertaken and they discussed it, that Cohen has record of it. And probably the documentation. Can we rule out contemporaneous notes?

Does Trump take the risk or does he look to pardon Cohen? But he hasn't been charged with anything, never mind convicted. My understanding is that a pardon only works after a conviction.

weisses

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Economic nationalism (ie tarrifs) are hit and miss. Some sectors gain, some don’t.

And if Chinese goods are too expensive then companies may build in the US. Plenty of counties use this kind of economic protectionism including the EU. Or use it to protect industry or agriculture.

In fact there’s a guy in prison in Ireland for importing garlic as apples, or onions.

How will that make these goods cheaper ?

robinph

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, the point is that clearly the FBI have a huge amount of stuff relating to Trump and Cohen. That Cohen kept these recordings indicates that he was wary of covering his back, for a time such as this when he might be in trouble.

So Trump is now faced with the possibility that if anything untoward was undertaken and they discussed it, that Cohen has record of it. And probably the documentation. Can we rule out contemporaneous notes?

Does Trump take the risk or does he look to pardon Cohen? But he hasn't been charged with anything, never mind convicted. My understanding is that a pardon only works after a conviction.

And we don't know who it is that has been given immunity from prosecution already. Could be that Muller has already effectively "pardoned" Cohen, so Trump can't do it in order to try and get him to keep his mouth shut.

ELM327

weisses wrote: »

How will that make these goods cheaper ?

They will be built in the US and not subject to tarrifs

jooksavage

robinph wrote: »

And we don't know who it is that has been given immunity from prosecution already. Could be that Muller has already effectively "pardoned" Cohen, so Trump can't do it in order to try and get him to keep his mouth shut.

Also, the flip side of a pardon means you can't plead the fifth on something that you might have reasonably claimed before would have amounted to self-incrimination. It's not outside the realm of possibility that a pardoned Cohen could still be compelled to provide a full, truthful account of his dealings with Trump or risk prosecution for contempt of court or, worse still, perjury.

ancapailldorcha

ELM327 wrote: »

They will be built in the US and not subject to tarrifs

That won't nearly be enough to offset the higher costs of American labour.

Trade wars aren't strategic, they're economic idiocy. It's a lazy way of copping out to his support base without putting any real effort in.

ELM327

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That won't nearly be enough to offset the higher costs of American labour.

Trade wars aren't strategic, they're economic idiocy. It's a lazy way of copping out to his support base without putting any real effort in.

Oh. Ok.Great.

My post was a straight one line answer to a straight one line question.
No need for the rhetoric.

As an aside, I don't support the trade wars. I live in a country that experienced the impact they have. (the UK vs Ireland trade wars in the 30's). However, as a populist, Trump is playing to his voter base and I can see why.

ELM327 wrote: »

They will be built in the US and not subject to tarrifs

weisses wrote: »

How will that make these goods cheaper ?

Zubeneschamali

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Trade wars aren't strategic, they're economic idiocy. It's a lazy way of copping out to his support base without putting any real effort in.

He is also doing it too early - the fallout is already hitting the states which elected him, since the EU, Canada etc are targeting them with tariffs. Voters will be very unhappy with his trade wars by 2020.

irishash

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

In fact there’s a guy in prison in Ireland for importing garlic as apples, or onions.

That businessman was jailed for 6 years in March 2012 - was later released in March 2013 as the sentence was reduced to 2 years and he was allowed early release.

amandstu

weisses wrote: »

How will that make these goods cheaper ?

I think the idea is for it to boost the local economy .I doubt goods can be made cheaper although perhaps they can in some cases if the manufacturing methods evolve.

That "idea" may not be why the tariffs were introduced though. I feel they have been introduced for political (and personal) gain.

Zubeneschamali

amandstu wrote: »

I doubt goods can be made cheaper

Of course they can't - if they could, they would compete without tariffs.

Trump's tariffs are simply a tax on US consumers who will pay higher prices, and the retaliatory tariffs will hit US businesses in Trump country. Neither of these will make Trump voters happy when they sink in.

ELM327

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of course they can't - if they could, they would compete without tariffs.

Trump's tariffs are simply a tax on US consumers who will pay higher prices, and the retaliatory tariffs will hit US businesses in Trump country. Neither of these will make Trump voters happy when they sink in.

What if (supposing it has the intended effect) they increase coal and steel worker job numbers?

That's a group of people that voted Trump en masse.

ancapailldorcha

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He is also doing it too early - the fallout is already hitting the states which elected him, since the EU, Canada etc are targeting them with tariffs. Voters will be very unhappy with his trade wars by 2020.

It is but they'll just blame the EU as being hostile while ignoring actual hostile entities. America First, MAGA and all that.

eagle eye

I don't think he cares about the EU all that much.

I'm actually watching this Brexit stuff because it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he offered the UK a free trade agreement. He could make it a three way and bring Canada back into the fold too.

We'd actually be left in a very bad spot if that happened.

jobbridge4life

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think he cares about the EU all that much.

I'm actually watching this Brexit stuff because it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he offered the UK a free trade agreement. He could make it a three way and bring Canada back into the fold too.

We'd actually be e left in a very bad spot if that happened.

He doesn't have to care about the EU, he has to care about the voters in the US who are going to be affected by the EU's very targetted tariffs. Already evidence is emerging of the impacts of the various retalitory tariffs, including collapses in pork prices and huge build ups of American agricultural products.

Offers the UK a trade deal? These aren't pardons, he can't just dish them out at will. In addition Canada and the European Union's free trade agreement is already in provisionally in place.

The European Union even minus Britian will still be one of the worlds richest and largest trade blocs. That so many people, particularly Trump acolytes seem to regard it as some kind of feeble beggar state is very telling.

ancapailldorcha

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think he cares about the EU all that much.

I'm actually watching this Brexit stuff because it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he offered the UK a free trade agreement. He could make it a three way and bring Canada back into the fold too.

We'd actually be left in a very bad spot if that happened.

Why exactly? The US would hold the cards in these negotiations, especially regarding the UK as they're much more dependent on trade deals due to Brexit.

Zubeneschamali

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It is but they'll just blame the EU as being hostile while ignoring actual hostile entities. America First, MAGA and all that.

Voters in the UK are trained to blame the EU for stuff.

Voters in the US are far less conscious of a world outside the US, they certainly won't blame the Germans or whoever no matter what Trump says.

listermint

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think he cares about the EU all that much.

I'm actually watching this Brexit stuff because it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he offered the UK a free trade agreement. He could make it a three way and bring Canada back into the fold too.

We'd actually be left in a very bad spot if that happened.

That is actually fantasy land, Utter Fantasy land.

There is nothing to give any indication of a 'three way deal on trade between canada the UK and the US'

Of course the US will come looking for trade deals post Brexit with the UK but they will solely be on US terms.

If you are popping out nonsense of 3 way inclusive deals then you dont have a notion of how trade deals work for 1 or the way trump has operated for the last year for 2.

good luck!

amandstu

Would Britain turn down a free trade agreement with USA if it meant higher tariffs with EU?

At the moment are they looking to have their cake and eat it but when push comes to shove will geographical neighbourhood count more?

kunst nugget

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm actually watching this Brexit stuff because it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he offered the UK a free trade agreement. He could make it a three way and bring Canada back into the fold too.

That's never going to happen. If Britain crash out of the EU, which is looking more and more likely, America is going to completely ride the UK when it comes to any trade deal because they'll have the upper hand and the UK will be desperate.

Thepoet85

eagle eye wrote:

I don't think he cares about the EU all that much.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that he cares about anyone but himself up to this point.

dr.fuzzenstein

ELM327 wrote: »

What if (supposing it has the intended effect) they increase coal and steel worker job numbers?

That's a group of people that voted Trump en masse.

If anyone thinks there will be a massive resurgance in coal and steel jobs in the US they are either deluded or, well I was going to say Donald Trump, but I suspect not even he is dim enough to actually believe this will happen. Simply pie in the sky dreaming.
Simply no. €5 and my left nut.