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Gemma O'Doherty and Sophie Toscan du Plantier

spitonmedickie

Apologies if I missed an existing thread on this but has anyone any thoughts on the Sophie Toscan du Plantier article by Gemma O'Doherty in the recent Village Magazine?

Some things in it that I don't recall from the West Cork podcast, other things I just think are a leap too far - for example would she really care that much about drug dealing?

Anyone read it?

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JohnnyFlash

Gemma O’Doherty is seen as a really brave and pioneering journalist by some folks. And is seen as a martyr for being sacked by Independent News and Media. But then you see her tweets and read her site and quickly realise she’s as mad as a bag of spiders. Conspiracy theorist, crank, rage against the machine sort.

Silentcorner

The problem with Ireland is, you simply don't know who to trust, which is the fault of the people we should have trust in, like Media, Politicians, Institutes...leaving a vacuum for all sorts of people...

The Village Magazine does have a reputation for exposing stories that mainstream media stay away from....

Gemma O'Doherty is a stand out journalist on the Irish media landscape (by stand out, I mean she has paid a price for not toeing the line).

This is Ireland, where State Institutions have a long horrible record of inflicting hardship on innocent people.

The Garda she mentions (Ex Commissioner Martin Callinane, is a disgraced public figure)

After that, I don't know what to believe.

Annasopra

Yeah when I looked at her twitter timeline I dont think I can take her too seriously.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Gemma may have been a good journalist but now she latches on to the cranks and the nutters and runs with conspiracy theories with the underlying tones being government collusion and cover-ups and as a result no one (at least no one of any importance) takes her seriously anymore. She's toxic.

Lux23

It's very hard to take her seriously, but then again you just don't know in this country.

JMNolan

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Conspiracy theorist, crank, rage against the machine sort.

I'd agree with the bit in bold, the other two bits are complete horseshit

emo72

Is she not entitled to be raging?

humberklog

It's a pity Gemma doesn't appear to have someone in her professional life to advise her on editing and output.

She could be a very important voice in some very murky stories but too often her joirnalistic voice gets lost in her conspiracy theories.

spitonmedickie

Maybe I shouldn't have put Gemma O'Doherty in the title and just said "Recent Sophie Article"!

Malayalam

Just read the article because of your link OP. Found it very interesting and quite well written. Obviously a bit of time and thought went into the summary. I don't know this Gemma O' Doherty lady, I have heard her mentioned before briefly in relation to the Mary Boyle case. Nothing I have seen written in this Sophie article or heard about in the Boyle stuff makes me think she is overly mad. All she speculates is possible. She seems to be investigating garda incompetence or corruption, from what I can make out - but I don't know much about her at all. I haven't checked anything else of hers. I have no idea if her theories are insane or justifiable but it is a great line to casually throw out though, to cast someone as a loon or conspiracy theorist or mad. Undermines them completely. That in itself is interesting.

_Whimsical_

spitonmedickie wrote: »

Apologies if I missed an existing thread on this but has anyone any thoughts on the Sophie Toscan du Plantier article by Gemma O'Doherty in the recent Village Magazine?

Some things in it that I don't recall from the West Cork podcast, other things I just think are a leap too far - for example would she really care that much about drug dealing?

Anyone read it?

I read it and found it an interesting read. I haven't heard the podcast but have followed the stuff in the news over the years and find there are so many glaring problems with the case that painting Ian Bailey as a definite perpetrator is just ridiculous.

Some very troubling things in there though , in particular the piece referring to Maire Whealan , the then Attorney General and now Court of Appeal Judge. I remember the scandal when she appointed last year but don't remember much mention of an association with this case. It would make you wonder how far up the chain the corruption runs...

The bizarre circumstances leading up to his resignation were fuelled by the discovery in 2013 of tapes of phone conversations unlawfully recorded at Bandon Garda Station, where the du Plantier investigation was headquartered. These included 36 conversations between gardaí and Marie Farrell, and about 18 recordings of conversations with Martin Graham. They only came to light as a result of a discovery order by Ian Bailey’s legal team.

In March 2014, on the day the Government revealed the existence of the secret recordings, Callinan resigned with immediate effect. It subsequently emerged that he had sought permission to destroy the tapes but the then Attorney General Máire Whelan ordered him not to. On the day before Callinan’s resignation, she informed the Taoiseach Enda Kenny of her belief that gardaí had been involved in widespread illegal activity.

This led to the establishment of the Fennelly Commission. It concluded that gardaí were prepared to “contemplate altering, modifying or suppressing evidence” that undermined their claim that Bailey was responsible.

Máire Whelan originally told the Commission that the phone-tapping scandal involved “a complete violation of the law” by gardaí and was a “total disregard” for the rights of citizens. But a spectacular U-turn followed when she changed her story and said she had exaggerated the facts and regretted her trenchant language.

In the eyes of a scandal-weary public, what looked like payback time materialised last year when Whelan was appointed as a judge to the Court of Appeal. The development caused uproar in the Dáil. Proper procedures had been ignored and it emerged that she had not even applied for the position.

TheValeyard

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Gemma O’Doherty is seen as a really brave and pioneering journalist by some folks. And is seen as a martyr for being sacked by Independent News and Media. But then you see her tweets and read her site and quickly realise she’s as mad as a bag of spiders. Conspiracy theorist, crank, rage against the machine sort.

_Whimsical_

_Dara_ wrote: »

She’s a good writer and that can help mask the looniness a bit but I have to agree, she comes across a tad unhinged to me.

In fairness though if she has published anything that's untrue or implicated a person in anything they can prove they weren't involved with, wouldn't she have been sued for liable by now?
It's not that difficult to secure a conviction over here, the onus is on the writer to prove they published factually correct information.

I think she's possibly bitten off more than she can chew, there are so many things out there that need some light shed and she might be better to concentrate on a few than on several. That said I follow her on Facebook and think she highlights some very important issues.

Example last week she put up a bit about TUSLA. We have 2 US residebt board members in TUSLA, last year we paid 6000 on flights back and forwards for them for meetings. Over 6000 was spent on an overnight stay in a hotel. 31,000 was awarded to one employee in expenses.
While we have small kids left in homes with abusers because no one has gotten around to investigating due to lack of resources and kids staying in B&Bs without an adult because there's no Foster care provision.
Why the hell is that not in our newspapers and on our TV?

Link to the post that contains evidence of her claims
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=613108245734845&id=100011070254271

Odhinn

humberklog wrote: »

It's a pity Gemma doesn't appear to have someone in her professional life to advise her on editing and output.

She could be a very important voice in some very murky stories but too often her joirnalistic voice gets lost in her conspiracy theories.

True enough. Given her experiences though, she's bound to be prone to paranoia.

paw patrol

i'm a big fan of hers.

Given her type of journalism , she will get things wrong but I believe her to be on the right track.

We need more journalists like her not the sycophantic fanboys we get who cosy up to the elites for a few free dinners and a ticket to the rugby.

Nearly all mainstream journalists in Ireland are afraid to upset those that feed them news....to counteract this the press owners keep a few useful idiots as house cats like David Quinn, Fintan O'Toole and Gene Kerrigan to give the semblance of balance.
But it's all a façade...

\

Silentcorner

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

In fairness though if she has published anything that's untrue or implicated a person in anything they can prove they weren't involved with, wouldn't she have been sued for liable by now?
It's not that difficult to secure a conviction over here, the onus is on the writer to prove they published factually correct information.

I think she's possibly bitten off more than she can chew, there are so many things out there that need some light shed and she might be better to concentrate on a few than on several. That said I follow her on Facebook and think she highlights some very important issues.

Example last week she put up a bit about TUSLA. We have 2 US residebt board members in TUSLA, last year we paid 6000 on flights back and forwards for them for meetings. Over 6000 was spent on an overnight stay in a hotel. 31,000 was awarded to one employee in expenses.
While we have small kids left in homes with abusers because no one has gotten around to investigating due to lack of resources and kids staying in B&Bs without an adult because there's no Foster care provision.
Why the hell is that not in our newspapers and on our TV?

Link to the post that contains evidence of her claims
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=613108245734845&id=100011070254271

She also named a very high profile rugby coach from a prestigious south dublin school and gave very graphic details of the child abuse alleged to have occurred, no other Irish media outlet reported on the abuse.

She has definitely been shunned by Irish media.

Harry Palmr

One of her "projects" the murder/manslaughter of Fr Naill Horan was in the news again recently

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0709/977506-fr-niall-molloy/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/why-was-a-priest-killed-in-a-couples-bedroom-at-an-unholy-hour-855138.html

Lando Griffins OTHER HALF

Malayalam wrote: »

.....

Found it very interesting and quite well written....

Obviously a bit of time and thought went into it....

I don't know this Gemma O' Doherty lady,

I don't know much about her at all.

I haven't checked anything else of hers....

Hi Gemma

Ipso

Harry Palmr wrote: »

One of her "projects" the murder/manslaughter of Fr Naill Horan was in the news again recently

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0709/977506-fr-niall-molloy/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/why-was-a-priest-killed-in-a-couples-bedroom-at-an-unholy-hour-855138.html

That's a dodgy case, as is the Mary Boyle one.
She had an article on the Boyle case where she claimed there was a high level pedophile ring operating in the area.
There is always the danger that she could be "leaked" information that verges on crackpot conspiracy theory that could easily be disproved and then will discredit any legitimate information she digs up.

Malayalam

Lando Griffins OTHER HALF wrote: »

Hi Gemma

Heh :rolleyes: silly billy

Muahahaha

Thing about Gemma is that those who call her a crank never seem to be able to back it up. Yes for sure the issues she reports on involve Garda corruption but that is hardly news in this country.

Picking some of the main stories she has reported on over the last two years Im failing to see why people call her a crank-

Mary Boyle dissappearance- Docherty has 2 x retired Gardai on video saying political interference was brought to bear so not to question the main suspect. Main suspect is a Fianna Failer who still lives in the area today
Father Niall Molloy murder- over 200 people in the house at a Fianna Fail wedding in Ber Cowens backyard (Clara,Co.Offaly) and the priest is murdered with no one ever facing justice
Cynthia Owens- alleges she was raped and abused and became pregnant by two Gardai who were in a paedophile ring in the Dalkey House of Horrors story. Names the Gardai and they dont sue her, instead preferring to remain silent while the whole community know they have been outed as paedos.

In each of the above cases there are serious questions to be asked of politicians and Gardai. Gemma Docherty is asking these questions that the mainstream media ignore.

So if she is a crank as some on here claim then why has there been no justice for the murder of a priest at a wedding, the disappearance (and likely murder) of an 8 year old child and the outing of a paedophile ring in south county Dublin?

_Whimsical_

Ireland is such a small country, possibly too small for the truth to out peacefully. I'm pretty sure anyone telling the truth about things like Garda coverups will be branded nutters etc, Maurice McCabes was denounced as "disgusting" at a public hearing. There are too many in the country with too much to lose if we are to accept what's perfectly plain when the evidence is presented. I doubt she'll have too many fans among politicians or guards, guards families, the list will go on. I'm sure she will make some mistakes or overstep some marks but even if she was 100 percent all the time there'll be plenty happy to call her a liar or crazy conspiracy theorist while it serves their interests that what she reveals stays in the shadows.

Ian Bailey is an example of what could happen to any one of us if it's let go on too.

It always surprises me that there isn't more interest in discussing this case actually. It's a pretty blatant miscarriage of justice in our own back yard. We know witnesses were tampered with by Gardai, someone blackmailed to pretend they saw Ian Bailey close to the scene, essential large evidence in the form of a gate "lost", improbable evidence accepted as gospel, eg that a clump of hair found in her hand was her own hair, not her attackers, despite being told she put up a frenzied fight against a very violent attacker.

....and yet we would be here talking about Donald Trump etc when the public shining a light on miscarriages of justice here could actually change things. It would make you wonder about all our priorities.

mynamejeff

Muahahaha wrote: »

So if she is a crank as some on here claim then why has there been no justice for the murder of a priest at a wedding, the disappearance (and likely murder) of an 8 year old child and the outing of a paedophile ring in south county Dublin?

You understand that all these various allegations and theory's that gemma comes out with these days are lacking one thing , any kind of proof

Fann Linn

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Gemma O’Doherty is seen as a really brave and pioneering journalist by some folks. And is seen as a martyr for being sacked by Independent News and Media. But then you see her tweets and read her site and quickly realise she’s as mad as a bag of spiders. Conspiracy theorist, crank, rage against the machine sort.

Nothing wrong with Tom Morello.

Muahahaha

mynamejeff wrote: »

You understand that all these various allegations and theory's that gemma comes out with these days are lacking one thing , any kind of proof

Is it lack of proof or the lack of Gardai willing to prosecute due to political interference? I would argue the latter, case by case:-
Mary Boyle - 2 x Gardai on video stating there was political interference- what reason would they have to lie about this?
Father Niall Molloy- dozens of witnesses were never even interviewed. Over 200 people at a wedding in a house where the priest is murdered and his body then removed from the bedroom to the bottom of the stairs. Garda investigation is a complete botch job.
Cynthia Owens- proof is in the pudding here- she outed the two Gardai that had sexually abused her publically on Facebook and they havent sued her. Dont know about you but if someone outed me as a paedo and I was innocent I woould most certainly be suing.

Of course it is easy for you to believe that the Gardai are alter boys (despite everything that has gone on) because you have skin in the game. But behind the three cases that Docherty has focused on the most we have families, friends and relatives of the victims, all who have never seen justice to this day. Now if Docherty is a crank, as you claim, then all these families, friends and relatives of the victims must be cranks too for campaigning for justice. Thats a lot of people who are cranks. Or maybe the answer is that they are not all cranks and that some Gardai went out of their way to cover up crime.

Aidric

Very interesting read tbh. She did great work exposing corruption in the Gardai and payed a heavy price for it.

I would draw parallels with the bank whistle-blower Jonathan Sugarman who equally exposed rampant irregularities in the banking sector prior to the crash. He gave articulate testimony on the matter.

The reason I link the two is that they both provided sterling testimony up front but due to increasing frustration with official Ireland they started to appear unhinged in their chase for retribution. Worse still they aligned themselves with the types of looneys who complain about everything, slowly eroding their credibility.

That shouldn't take from the substance of this article. The fact that this case remains unsolved 21 years later points to serious deficiencies in the gardai investigation. Bailey seems to have been targeted as a sort of oddball patsy but if they haven't been able to pin it on him after all this time suggests their case was built on sand.

chicorytip

Aidric wrote:

That shouldn't take from the substance of this article. The fact that this case remains unsolved 21 years later points to serious deficiencies in the gardai investigation. Bailey seems to have been targeted as a sort of oddball patsy but if they haven't been able to pin it on him after all this time suggests their case was built on sand.

Bailey was named as the chief suspect for very compelling reasons. He had a known propensity to behave violently toward women, he admitted to committing the crime in an unguarded comment made to his neighbour and there were serious doubts about alibis both he and his partner provided regarding his whereabouts at the time the killing took place. This talk of conspiracies is utter hogwash. The investigation, or parts of it, was handled incompetently, yes. The most significant outcome of all is that in the intervening twenty one years no other suspect has been identified. Make of that what you will.

Thoughtform

Good, thought provoking piece to be fair - thanks for sharing.

I think the issue people have with Gemma is not so much that she's trying to shine a light on matters that seem suspicious. That is always a good thing and I'm very glad there are such people. But moreso the manner in which she engages - e.g. on social media. That shrill, paranoid, defensive to the point of being hostile, "I'm a victim" approach. And she appeals greatly to the kind of crowd that are always going on about "big pharma" and "sheeple".

If her approach were more quietly dignified like that of Justine McCarthy (also willing to speak out, and sacked by the Spindo) I think her reputation wouldn't be so damaged.

Silentcorner

Thoughtform wrote: »

Good, thought provoking piece to be fair - thanks for sharing.

I think the issue people have with Gemma is not so much that she's trying to shine a light on matters that seem suspicious. That is always a good thing and I'm very glad there are such people. But moreso the manner in which she engages - e.g. on social media. That shrill, paranoid, defensive to the point of being hostile, "I'm a victim" approach. And she appeals greatly to the kind of crowd that are always going on about "big pharma" and "sheeple".

If her approach were more quietly dignified like that of Justine McCarthy (also willing to speak out, and sacked by the Spindo) I think her reputation wouldn't be so damaged.

Excellent point.

I would add as well though that us Irish are very subservient to power, leading to all kinds of abuse, we don't like a voice that puts us in a place where we have to challenge that subservience...its easier to write the messenger off as a crank...you are right, when her delivery is what it is it lends itself to even more hardened polarised opinions.

The reality is, for as long as I can remember, we have had to depend on ITV and the BBC to inform us of serious abuses of power.

Irish media is a huge part of the problem for citizens of this state, as uncomfortable as that might be for Irish people to realise.

dense

She's doing what other journalists arent.

Ok shes the one who labels herself as the investigate journalist, but at the same time, I can't think of too many other investigative journalists that investigate, or, are permitted to go so off terrain and investigate.

The rest seem to think the red top reading public wants them to come up with snappy nicknames for common thugs.

On the whole I think she has theories worth listening to asks questions that remain to be answered.

As for the Du Plantier case, it's a solid article IMO.

She does grind some axes on twitter though.