Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Utd are aiming for higher things than Valencia. If he was good enough to start for Utd this season, then he should have been walking onto that Valencia team. And people are talking about him playing in the middle for Utd even though both Spanish clubs played him on the wing.

I don't see anyone suggesting he should be starting on all our games. People have been saying they want him to be a squad rotation player and see what he's capable of.

If McTominay can make 20+ appearances for us certainly Pereira is good enough to be given chances in the squad.

He played in a more central position at underage level but has floated between the positions as an attacking midfielder. The reason people are discussing him centrally is because that is where José seems to want to play him, I don't want him dropping deep and losing his creativity but I am willing to see how the experiment goes.

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

Well then the club is a fcukin disgrace tbh. If they dont trust Jose just sack him and get someone they trust. If this idea is true the club are gunna waste a season and cause us to go backwards (again) just so they can remove the manager half way through?

The club have backed him to the hilt. Smashed a world record for him. Maybe they want some deadwood out before they splash more cash again

jayo26

Mctomminay on loan this season and Andreas in our midfield numbers is a better plan but maybe Andreas doesn't want to be backup again this season so it be his call.

bangkok wrote: »

The club have backed him to the hilt. Smashed a world record for him. Maybe they want some deadwood out before they splash more cash again

Clubs priority should be to get the managers targets especially if that club is the most valuable in the world and can comfortably afford it. .

The deadwood is not Jose's fault and its not his job to offload them. You cant blame Jose for the clubs poor 3 years years of costly mistakes and blame him if the club is bad at offloading unwanted players.

And "Smashed a world record" ? ! I think PSG smashed the world record with Neymar, United spent a bit more then the world record at the time. If we factor transfer inflation they didn't even match the Bale or certainly Ronaldo transfer costs.

United is the most valuable club in the world. Do they invest the most in their squad in comparison to all around them ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes%27_list_of_the_most_valuable_football_clubs

Do they really support their managers in a manner that the richest club in the world should ? Do they always buy targets or managers priorities over club marketing or strategic targets ? Im only asking the question because 5 years of Woodward and the owners actually having to make football calls on transfers and managers hasn't yielded the results many fans want and yet reverting to manager blaming seems to be the goto default strategy. How has that been working out for us ?

I don't think the support of managers has been anything remarkable in comparison to the teams we hope to overtake. I just don't get why people keep quoting random transfer spending figures in isolation as if it somehow shows Jose has gotten anymore support then his major rivals.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

So Jose has spent 380 million and we are not done with transfer window and people are questioning whether the club backed him or not? This is on top of having the best GK in the world and some very good talented players like Martial, Rashford.

Still Jose's favorite is Valencia, Fellaini, Young all players who were already at the club but somehow Jose isn't backed.

Maybe people should start questioning Jose's methods than always asking for more players.

Right now we have 5 or 6 CBs and how can club sign one more without offloading few?

I've been saying we need to sell players - which results in people telling me they are great squad players and servants.

My comment on backing Jose is down to someone saying maybe the club don't want to give him money for transfers. If that were the case, they wouldn't be backing him.

So - my comment on that is: Back him or sack him. Look to bring in the players he wants or sack him cause you don't trust him.

Right now we have 5 CBs. 3 of them I would sell in the morning and 2 of them only get a repreave cause they are relatively new and haven't been given the same time to prove themselves. Smalling, Jones and Rojo are not good enough to be elite level starters. So I'd have no issue selling them and bringing in a defender that is capable of organising and defending.

The areas of the team we (a decent %) are looking for players to be brought in are:

1. Full back - Jose has brought in no fullbacks and the fullbacks we have are aging former wingers.
2. Centre back - Jose has brought in two and neither has worked out yet. Bringing in a third is needed, but annoying.
3. Winger - Jose has not brought in a winger - he tried to last season and Woodward failed to get a deal agreed.

So is their any concrete source or quote which has sparked up this debate about José and the board, and the fact that the board apparently don't want to give him money for his targets as they have invested a lot already, or is it purely a debate off speculation?

If it's based off speculation I will be bowing out of this debate.

What's interesting about the LB position Mitch is that Shaw was a club purchase. No manager requested him but the club identified him and chased him for a season and Shaw was "given" to LVG, its not that LVG had him on his shopping list. His age and status as English would equate to a higher profile and potential value which in itself shows that the club has its own way of valuing targets. His potential is/was there but even older managers of Shaws (from Southampton) aluded to the fact hes not great with instructions and can be difficult to motivate.

Adamocovic wrote: »

So is their any concrete source or quote which has sparked up this debate about José and the board, and the fact that the board apparently don't want to give him money for his targets as they have invested a lot already, or is it purely a debate off speculation?

If it's based off speculation I will be bowing out of this debate.

Speculation - as was clear at the very start. It was a speculative post that was responded to, as a debating topic.

Toodles.

Drumpot wrote: »

What's interesting about the LB position Mitch is that Shaw was a club purchase. No manager requested him but the club identified him and chased him for a season and Shaw was "given" to LVG, its not that LVG had him on his shopping list. His age and status as English would equate to a higher profile and potential value which in itself shows that the club has its own way of valuing targets. His potential is/was there but even older managers of Shaws (from Southampton) aluded to the fact hes not great with instructions and can be difficult to motivate.

Moyes identified Shaw as a target and put a huge amount of effort in to getting him. He was making calls on signing him in the days leading up to getting sacked.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Speculation - as was clear at the very start. It was a speculative post that was responded to, as a debating topic.

Toodles.

Perfect, I'll go back to re-watching Phil Jones best moments on YouTube.

Enjoy.

TheDoc wrote: »

But going into the season with Smalling,Jones and Rojo is negligent.
The club telling him to sell first is total proper order. What does he think, he can have six CB's on first team wages? Absolutely proper order. **** or get off the pot.

From what I have read Jose told Woodward the players/positons he wanted in.

He also told woodward that Darmian, Shaw, Blind and Smalling were players he wanted sold and that he would be happy to sell Martial to fund the purchase of a winger.

Once Jose has told Woodward what to do, it is up to woodward to get it done.

How the F can you blame Jose for Woodward not being able to sell players, or the accumulation of sh1t from before he arrived. Do you expect Jose to be ringing clubs and agents trying to sell the players himself? Jose has, apparently , made it clear these players are not needed by him and the players he is looking at to replace him. Any failures after that are 100% on Woodward, not Jose. It simply isn't Jose's job or place to be negotiating the deals in or out.

Woodward knew MONTHS ago that Shaw, Blind, Darmian and Smalling were to be sold to fund replacements. What more do you want of Jose? Or do you think Jose only told Woodward last week that these players could be sold and was actually hoping to have a squad of 35 prior to that?

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Moyes identified Shaw as a target and put a huge amount of effort in to getting him. He was making calls on signing him in the days leading up to getting sacked.

Do you think the club bought players (Herrera and Shaw) that were targeted by a manager they sacked, even after sacking that manager? I'm not convinced that was the case but if it was its a terrible strategy to follow that doesn't do much to help an incoming manager.

Drumpot wrote: »

The deadwood is not Jose's fault and its not his job to offload them. You cant blame Jose for the clubs poor 3 years years of costly mistakes and blame him if the club is bad at offloading unwanted players.

Wow, so Jose can be judged only when he gets his 22 players? This is like how Liverpool fans used to find excuses whenever Klopp lost games, that these are not Klopp players.

So what if Jose gets sacked, we have to sell all our players and get every player new coach wants?

It is Jose's job and one of the reason is Jose, why we have deadwood. He was desperate for Young to sign contract, he begged Fellaini for months to sign contract extension.

He said he can't think of a better LB than Shaw when he got run of games and that player never got run of games again once Young was back from suspension.

So club no matter if they can offload dead wood should keep on adding more players? Thank god at least club have finally got some sense and started to offload before adding new players.

This is the coach who wanted Lindelof so badly and barely played him when all our CBs were available. He wanted Bailly and now he talks him as if he is fringe player. It's easily understandable if Woodward don't want to sign players unless we offload,

It's just laughable that people just believe Jose so blindly. This is the guy who couldn't wait to take cheap shots at Van Gaal as soon as he took over, saying he wouldn't have sold players like Di Maria, Welbeck, Hernandez and IIRC Nani also.

Di Maria can be signed from PSG, Hernandez moved from Leverkusen to West Ham with ManUtd making 0 efforts to sign him, Welbeck's future at Arsenal is done and can be signed. Will Jose do it? No, it's just a cheap shot at Van Gaal for no reason.

This is the guy who said he didn't want to sell Salah (last month) and when Chelsea loaned him out with option to buy, he said he saw no future for the player in PL.

Jose takes 0 responsibilities and i ****ing hate that.

Yeah sorry for the rant, it's just ridiculous how people just blindly follows whatever Jose says when he keeps on changing his words every month.

Drumpot wrote: »

Do you think the club bought players (Herrera and Shaw) that were targeted by a manager they sacked, even after sacking that manager? I'm not convinced that was the case but if it was its a terrible strategy to follow that doesn't do much to help an incoming manager.

Club knew a CM and a LB were needed, they were two players long identified for those roles. LVG was asked to sign off on their purchases, and did. Good long term strat? Maybe not. But waiting for LVG was/would have been a disaster. We signed Rojo cause LVG was impressed with him in the Holland vs Argentina game. Now THAT is bad recruitment!

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Wow, so Jose can be judged only when he gets his 22 players? This is like how Liverpool fans used to find excuses whenever Klopp lost games, that these are not Klopp players.

So what if Jose gets sacked, we have to sell all our players and get every player new coach wants?

It is Jose's job and one of the reason is Jose, why we have deadwood. He was desperate for Young to sign contract, he begged Fellaini for months to sign contract extension.

He said he can't think of a better LB than Shaw when he got run of games and that player never got run of games again once Young was back from suspension.

So club no matter if they can offload dead wood should keep on adding more players? Thank god at least club have finally got some sense and stated to offload before adding new players.

This is the coach who wanted Lindelof so badly and barely played him when all our CBs were available. He wanted Bailly and now he talks him as if he is fringe player. It's easily understandable if Woodward don't want to sign players unless we offload,

It's just laughable that people just believe Jose so blindly. This is the guy who couldn't wait to take cheap shots at Van Gaal as soon as he took over, saying he wouldn't have sold players like Di Maria, Welbeck, Hernandez and IIRC Nani also.

Di Maria can be signed from PSG, Hernandez moved from Leverkusen to West Ham with ManUtd making 0 efforts to sign him, Welbeck's future at Arsenal is done and can be signed. Will Jose do it? No, it's just a cheap shot at Van Gaal for no reason.

This is the guy who said he didn't want to sell Salah (last month) and when Chelsea loaned him out with option to buy, he said he saw no future for the player in PL.

Jose takes 0 responsibilities and i ****ing hate that.

You are all over the place there and most of your post is just about not Liking how Jose conducts himself or the things he says.

Who said Jose can only be judged when he has 22 players he wants ? That's not the point being made. He inherited a poor squad after 3 years of poor purchases and mismanagement by the club. It wasn't comparable with the Chelsea or City squads inherited by their respective managers so Jose had more work to do to build united back up to a position to challenge again.

He has now done that. The club was the nearest challenger to the league champions last season for the first time since SAF retired. You can either accept that's progress or somehow make it a negative by focusing on the points difference between 1st and 2nd.

The club actually has players worth something and considered valuable. LVG had a decent spending record yet the squad he left wasn't worth an awful lot. The players that have been discarded from the 3 years previous to Jose haven't yielded much which suggests Jose didn't inherit a squad of players that other teams were desperate to sign.

As for Young and Fellani, Im not sure I understand why this angers you. Both are good squad players to have and even if Young starts I don't think he was a long term solution. The expectation was always that Shaw would mature and kick on as a player but he hasn't, I wouldn't blame Jose as there is enough from previous coachs to suggest he's got mental issues (motivation/instructions).

What happened in the previous 3 years before Jose that has you believe the club bears no responsibility for the state of the first team ?

If Jose left tomorrow the club/squad is in a much healthier position then when he joined. That in itself shows that he is pointing the club in the right direction.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Club knew a CM and a LB were needed, they were two players long identified for those roles. LVG was asked to sign off on their purchases, and did. Good long term strat? Maybe not. But waiting for LVG was/would have been a disaster. We signed Rojo cause LVG was impressed with him in the Holland vs Argentina game. Now THAT is bad recruitment!

Which confirms that the club does have its own transfer strategy/priorities alongside its managers.

Drumpot wrote: »

You are all over the place there and most of your post is just about not Liking how Jose conducts himself or the things he says.

Who said Jose can only be judged when he has 22 players he wants ? That's not the point being made. He inherited a poor squad after 3 years of poor purchases and mismanagement by the club. It wasn't comparable with the Chelsea or City squads inherited by their respective managers so Jose had more work to do to build united back up to a position to challenge again.

When Jose took over, Manutd finished on level points with ManCity with Martial and Rashford playing so well.

He has now done that. The club was the nearest challenger to the league champions last season for the first time since SAF retired. You can either accept that's progress or somehow make it a negative by focusing on the points difference between 1st and 2nd.

The club actually has players worth something and considered valuable. LVG had a decent spending record yet the squad he left wasn't worth an awful lot. The players that have been discarded from the 3 years previous to Jose haven't yielded much which suggests Jose didn't inherit a squad of players that other teams were desperate to sign.

Same excuse was used when Van Gaal was in charge, and same excuse will be used when Jose gets sacked and new coach is not happy with playing squad, excuses will be how poor recruitment was under Jose. So when are we going to discuss about tactics, our attacking play or lack of, how poorly we play as a team.

Is signing players only way to improve the team? This is when Jose has spent 380 million, since Jose took over at ManUtd, we are easily among top 5 in Europe when it comes to money spent. And still you are saying he isn't backed.

How do you know teams are not desperate to sign our players? We didn't struggle much to sell Schneiderlin, Depay and there are teams who are in for Martial and there are teams like Juventus, Napoli, Inter who wants Darmian.

This is 3rd summer, with Jose signing every player he wanted except Perisic in 2 summers, when will these excuses stop?

As for Young and Fellani, Im not sure I understand why this angers you. Both are good squad players to have and even if Young starts I don't think he was a long term solution. The expectation was always that Shaw would mature and kick on as a player but he hasn't, I wouldn't blame Jose as there is enough from previous coachs to suggest he's got mental issues (motivation/instructions).

I don't have any problems with Fellaini and Young, in fact I like them and my post history supports that. What I have problem is, people moaning about how Jose isn't responsible for offloading deadwood when he is on his knees for average players. We even gave Rojo extension last season. If Jose doesn't rate him, why didn't he sell them instead of asking club to give them new contracts? Fellaini, Young, Rojo players who are considered as average and deadwood but liked by Jose.

What happened in the previous 3 years before Jose that has you believe the club bears no responsibility for the state of the first team ?

If Jose left tomorrow the club/squad is in a much healthier position then when he joined. That in itself shows that he is pointing the club in the right direction.

The whole thing changes when the new coach says he doesn't rate any of the players, just like how Jose can't wait to offload Martial. Today's shiny toys are tomorrows deadwood.

If Jose leaves tomorrow then we will have a coach who wants new RB, LB and have to address non existent right winger in the club, also a CB who can stay fit, defend and can pass the ball. That's 4 positions that we have holes.

I like Jose's signings as he usually gets it spot on but as much as anyone he is responsible for the current situation. He has signed 2 CBs in 2 summers and now he wants one more while ignoring LB position for 3rd summer in a row and a right winger.

There comes a time when you have to start questioning Jose for not getting best out of players too and also our non existent attacking play.

Drumpot wrote: »

Which confirms that the club does have its own transfer strategy/priorities alongside its managers.

Go on and name which players were signed without Jose wanting them.

One heck of a 5h1t storm in here today... think i'll turn on my heel and leave people to it

I wonder what other players we will bring in before window is closed.

I'm going to guess we use Martial as part of some deal. I know reports saying José doesn't want to sell him to a Prem Rival but I could see it happening and being part of a swap deal. Wouldn't be overally surprised to see us use him to get either Willian (A lot of changing going on in Chelsea) or for Toby (Spurs either try cash in on him now or let him walk for free at the end of the season).

Realistically I would expect 2 more players coming in, despite the window fast approaching. If we got the above two I'd be in a really confident spot going into the season but again there is no saying how the next few days will unfold.
Would be disappointed if we ended up just bringing in Maguire and that was that.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/registability/status/967379006143324165

So Martial has a rep for being "difficult".

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/registability/status/967379006143324165

So Martial has a rep for being "difficult".

There are french posters on Redcafe who said it's bs, this was posted long back too.

I wonder could we tempt Atletico with Martial and cash for Vrsaljko and Greizemann???

Lowers the age of their squad but highly doubtful they'd sell us both players.

Spurs have not made a signing yet and have fcuk all money with their new stadium coming online so they'll need to sell before they buy so we can definitely wait on Toby and make them sweat

Harry Maguire, nah you're ok.. Jones and Smalling are equally as good or bad depending on your opinion of Maguire.

Still think Juve need to sell and Sandro and Mandzukic could be done in time.

Lord TSC

Griezmann just signed a new contract (edit: didn't he? Wasn't that the whole point of his recent videos) and Vrsaljko is apparently off to Inter.

Cantona's Collars

Giggsy11 wrote: »

There are french posters on Redcafe who said it's bs, this was posted long back too.

Probably but his demeanor and attitude on the pitch at times certainly isn't the best.

Lord TSC wrote: »

Griezmann just signed a new contract and Vrsaljko is apparently off to Inter.

Never say never Lord TeSCo... but i agree its unlikely to happen

Lord TSC wrote: »

Griezmann just signed a new contract (edit: didn't he? Wasn't that the whole point of his recent videos) and Vrsaljko is apparently off to Inter.

Also... The TSC club.....

How does one become a member and where can i get my clubcard points registered....

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Probably but his demeanor and attitude on the pitch at times certainly isn't the best.

Yeah agree with that. There is a scope for one more Jose rant but I will let it go this time

Trigger

Luckhurst going totally against the grain and saying United hoping to bring in Alderweirald and an attacker and then a LB only if they have funds remaining