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N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]

Stupido

NRA have this morning advertised for engineering consultancy to design medium to long term solution to the junction!

:):)

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marno21

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

It would be possible to upgrade R626 or the Watergrasshill-Carrigtwohill road (Longstown hill). Personally - though I use these roads a lot - I hope it doesn't happen. The next things I want to see improved after the north ring road are the public and sustainable transport modes.
It's crazy that we still see >90% single-occupant car usage in places like Little Island. I feel there's a lot of relatively cheap wins to be had.

When places like Little Island are built around the car, the result we have is what you get.

Long term there will have to be some sort of thought put into pedestrian/cycle facilities around the JLT. The current Mahon -> Little Island route involves a tour of the city centre.

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Yes I do recall using it for a brief period before it was signalised, a free for all is what it was.

Even using the Kinsale Road Roundabout before the flyover was installed seems hard to believe looking back, as well as Bandon and Sarsfield Road Roundabouts.

When is the N40 due to become the M40, is it after the completion of these works?

kub wrote: »

I thought the re-designation of the N40 to M40 was imminent, I think i read somewhere that funds were set aside for signage etc.

M40 redesignation should happen in the next few years. Consultants are working out the ins and outs of it at the minute.

kub

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Yes I do recall using it for a brief period before it was signalised, a free for all is what it was.

Even using the Kinsale Road Roundabout before the flyover was installed seems hard to believe looking back, as well as Bandon and Sarsfield Road Roundabouts.

When is the N40 due to become the M40, is it after the completion of these works?

I thought the re-designation of the N40 to M40 was imminent, I think i read somewhere that funds were set aside for signage etc.

Cork Trucker

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It was truly awful before they signalised it circa 2005.

Yes I do recall using it for a brief period before it was signalised, a free for all is what it was.

Even using the Kinsale Road Roundabout before the flyover was installed seems hard to believe looking back, as well as Bandon and Sarsfield Road Roundabouts.

When is the N40 due to become the M40, is it after the completion of these works?

hans aus dtschl

Bacchus wrote: »

Agreed. I'd also like option 2 though. Probably not a priority but it would be a great link to steer some traffic away from Dunkettle. I know I'd make good use of it

It would be possible to upgrade R626 or the Watergrasshill-Carrigtwohill road (Longstown hill). Personally - though I use these roads a lot - I hope it doesn't happen. The next things I want to see improved after the north ring road are the public and sustainable transport modes.
It's crazy that we still see >90% single-occupant car usage in places like Little Island. I feel there's a lot of relatively cheap wins to be had.

Bacchus

Frostybrew wrote: »

Options 1 and 4 are the way to go here.

Agreed. I'd also like option 2 though. Probably not a priority but it would be a great link to steer some traffic away from Dunkettle. I know I'd make good use of it

Frostybrew

marno21 wrote: »

The issue long term is that the area around Dunkettle has lots of constraints and building Ireland's biggest interchange on 5+ levels isn't feasible.

There are a number of better solutions for when Dunkettle becomes saturated:

1. North Ring Road - no brainer
2. Link from M8/M40 junction at Glanmire to future N25 near Carrigtwohill/Middleton
3. M48 outer orbital from Ballinhassig (M71) to Carrigaline (M28) with possible Cork Harbour viaduct
4. Buses, trains, bikes

Options 1 and 4 are the way to go here. Once the NNR is complete and the Cork radial routes are upgraded to Motorway standard, funding should be concentrated on public transport. There's no need for an outer orbital route for a city the size of Cork, even one expanded to a size many multiples of it's present size.

If we continue to experience traffic congestion post NRR completion then lack of investment in public transport will be the culprit and not a deficiency in our roads network.

marno21

The issue long term is that the area around Dunkettle has lots of constraints and building Ireland's biggest interchange on 5+ levels isn't feasible.

There are a number of better solutions for when Dunkettle becomes saturated:

1. North Ring Road - no brainer
2. Link from M8/M40 junction at Glanmire to future N25 near Carrigtwohill/Middleton
3. M48 outer orbital from Ballinhassig (M71) to Carrigaline (M28) with possible Cork Harbour viaduct
4. Buses, trains, bikes

kub

AugustusMinimus wrote:

Bridge would need to be high enough to allow shipping underneath and would also need to feed traffic into the Dunkettle interchange.

I wonder with the relocation of the container terminal in Tivoli down to Ringaskiddy will this mean that not only container ships but bulk ones may also go to Ringaskiddy and therefore would the high bridge be necessary.

AugustusMinimus

kub wrote: »

I wonder, if there is a bridge built down there eventually will they just shut the tunnel down?

Just consider, when it opened first nightly maintenance shut downs were scarce perhaps twice a year.

I am noticing these shut downs are a lot more regular now, the reason seems to be very obvious especially when you are in the North bound bore at the lowest section, there is always wet patches down there, even when the roads leading to the tunnel are dry.

Bridge would need to be high enough to allow shipping underneath and would also need to feed traffic into the Dunkettle interchange.

Is there enough space to do so. That would result in a very steep incline.

kub

I wonder, if there is a bridge built down there eventually will they just shut the tunnel down?

Just consider, when it opened first nightly maintenance shut downs were scarce perhaps twice a year.

I am noticing these shut downs are a lot more regular now, the reason seems to be very obvious especially when you are in the North bound bore at the lowest section, there is always wet patches down there, even when the roads leading to the tunnel are dry.

EnzoScifo

Will probably come a point where a bridge will have to be built for one carriageway of the M40 and the tunnel converted into the other a la Dartford crossing.

AugustusMinimus

It was truly awful before they signalised it circa 2005.

Cork Trucker

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Before the tunnel it used to be an at grade Roundabout.

The flyover was the solution when the tunnel opened. Lack of foresight in this country is awful.

I vaguely remember it pre tunnel, going to Youghal Via Glounthaune,Carrigtwohill,Midleton wasn't fun, especially on a bus.

Definitely lack of foresight.

The Tunnel opened in 1999, went through it 2 months later for the first time, sure we though it was great until the maintenance issues began.

AugustusMinimus

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I'm dreading the backup of traffic here when the works begin and are ongoing, but I wouldn't have it any other way, the place is a bloody nightmare. Realistically speaking this should have been incorporated into the works during construction of the tunnel, hindsight is a great thing however.

Before the tunnel it used to be an at grade Roundabout.

The flyover was the solution when the tunnel opened. Lack of foresight in this country is awful.

Cork Trucker

I'm dreading the backup of traffic here when the works begin and are ongoing, but I wouldn't have it any other way, the place is a bloody nightmare. Realistically speaking this should have been incorporated into the works during construction of the tunnel, hindsight is a great thing however.

Carawaystick

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/free-app-to-alert-drivers-to-traffic-issues-at-corks-dunkettle-interchange-859171.html

TII to publish app to provide drivers with real time information on delays/diversions at the Dunkettle Interchange for the upgrade

Cant wait for the delays causes by drivers crashing while using their phone....

marno21

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/free-app-to-alert-drivers-to-traffic-issues-at-corks-dunkettle-interchange-859171.html

TII to publish app to provide drivers with real time information on delays/diversions at the Dunkettle Interchange for the upgrade

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057826801

I've created a thread here for discussion of the M40 reclassification, and indeed the ITS and diversion upgrades. For all non Dunkettle chat, that thread would be best.

Chris_5339762

Aontachtoir wrote: »

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/No-toll-plan-for-Dunkettle-bypass-a572d241-0586-4c02-b93e-2274fece016f-ds

The name of that article makes me cringe.

AugustusMinimus

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Interesting article in the Echo today. In response to questions about the possibility of tolling the Dunkettle interchange after its completion, the County Hall roads director indicated that tolling was not being considered for that stretch of road. He separately added:

"TII have asked us to get a motorway reclassification study done in relation to the N40 South Ring Road and what things would need to be done there if it was reclassified. There is also an intelligent transport system being installed both in Dunkettle and on the entire length on the N40 and the various roads coming into the N40 such as the Airport Road and the N71."

Not so sure what exactly an "intelligent transport system" means to daily road users, but this is the first confirmation I have seen in the media (ie not on this forum or the TII website) that plans are underway to reclassify the N40. Can't happen soon enough.

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/No-toll-plan-for-Dunkettle-bypass-a572d241-0586-4c02-b93e-2274fece016f-ds

I believe this is referring to new sets of gantries relaying real time traffic information.

Aontachtoir

Interesting article in the Echo today. In response to questions about the possibility of tolling the Dunkettle interchange after its completion, the County Hall roads director indicated that tolling was not being considered for that stretch of road. He separately added:

"TII have asked us to get a motorway reclassification study done in relation to the N40 South Ring Road and what things would need to be done there if it was reclassified. There is also an intelligent transport system being installed both in Dunkettle and on the entire length on the N40 and the various roads coming into the N40 such as the Airport Road and the N71."

Not so sure what exactly an "intelligent transport system" means to daily road users, but this is the first confirmation I have seen in the media (ie not on this forum or the TII website) that plans are underway to reclassify the N40. Can't happen soon enough.

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/No-toll-plan-for-Dunkettle-bypass-a572d241-0586-4c02-b93e-2274fece016f-ds

Leonard Hofstadter

Between this and the M28 finally being approved it's been an excellent week for Cork. It's not going to be fun stuck in the inevitable traffic when the work is ongoing but it will all be worth it! Finally our city is moving forward!

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

What’s the timescale like on it? 3 years with phased openings?

Traffic management will be a nightmare just like M50 junction upgrades.

3+ years likely. It'll be similar to the M50 alright I'd say but it'll be very difficult given the tight area, railway line, gradient requirements etc

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

I have never seen a thread so quiet after good news!

Dunkettle Interchange awarded to Sisk. Early works to begin in Q4, full start in Q1 2019. Traffic management and other planning works ongoing until then

What’s the timescale like on it? 3 years with phased openings?

Traffic management will be a nightmare just like M50 junction upgrades.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

Sisk have been awarded the contract by TII to construct the Dunkettle Interchange Improvement Scheme.

Let the fun begin!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/builder-sisk-reports-profit-jump-of-73-to-24-7m-for-2017-1.3544316

https://twitter.com/CISireland/status/1014494819673169922

I have never seen a thread so quiet after good news!

Dunkettle Interchange awarded to Sisk. Early works to begin in Q4, full start in Q1 2019. Traffic management and other planning works ongoing until then

marno21

Sisk have been awarded the contract by TII to construct the Dunkettle Interchange Improvement Scheme.

Let the fun begin!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/builder-sisk-reports-profit-jump-of-73-to-24-7m-for-2017-1.3544316

https://twitter.com/CISireland/status/1014494819673169922

pigtown

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Agreed - the Dunkettle upgrade has to happen and it will be well worth it when it is. That said, looking again at Marno's picture I realised that my commute will not only take me through the Dunkettle works traffic, it will also send me straight into the future M28 works traffic too...

I guess you're right though. No pain, no gain! 8-)

Wait what changes will occur along the N40 due to the M28 works?

marno21

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Agreed - the Dunkettle upgrade has to happen and it will be well worth it when it is. That said, looking again at Marno's picture I realised that my commute will not only take me through the Dunkettle works traffic, it will also send me straight into the future M28 works traffic too...

I guess you're right though. No pain, no gain! 8-)

I believe the reason Dunkettle will take 3 years is because there will be a focus on retaining the current running lanes at peak times to avoid gridlock.

In the same way the tunnel closes now and then I can see most work requiring lane closures and/or full road closures taking place between 10pm and 6am.

There's simply no way you could bring the tunnel down to one lane at 4-7pm in the evening. We had that in 2015 and it didn't work out very well.

Aontachtoir

Agreed - the Dunkettle upgrade has to happen and it will be well worth it when it is. That said, looking again at Marno's picture I realised that my commute will not only take me through the Dunkettle works traffic, it will also send me straight into the future M28 works traffic too...

I guess you're right though. No pain, no gain! 8-)

questionmark?

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Not looking forward to my evening commute back to Douglas over the next few years while the new intersection is being built...!

Just imagine how bad it will get if it isn't built. Not to mention how if the city grinds to a halt the much wanted investment won't come. No pain no gain and there will be a lot of gain from doing this upgrade.