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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

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ELM327

Leroy42 wrote: »

So have any Trump supporters anything to actually say on his totally embarrassing climb down yesterday?

Without the reason for the change I can't say why he changed his mind.
But what I will say is I'm glad he's not an actual politician as he is free to change his mind when he wishes.

Leroy42 wrote: »

What was it that made you vote or side with Trump? And which of those things is he delivering on?

Let's see what changes Trump as POTUS brings, and the reason I side with him:

Too many liberal changes (CHECK)
Creeping in socialism that didnt work (Obamacare)(CHECK)
Unhappy at left wing ideology being enforced on all, when this is only really supported in California,NY and a couple of other large areas - but the states as a collective union do not generally support (NB look at the geographic vote dispersion)(CHECK)
Taking some sort of action against the border problem, terrorism and immigration (CHECK)
Being a "voice for the voiceless" in the whitehouse, IE those who do not support or conform to this liberal agenda.(CHECK)

FreudianSlippers

ELM327 wrote: »

Boards is very left wing.
The posters here voted by 85% approximately (from memory) in favour of abortion.

79% of Americans support abortion; 29% under any circumstances and 50% with limitations.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Pew broke it down a bit more including those with a more restrictive view (i.e. illegal in most cases), but still the vast majority were not against abortion.

http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/

There's very much a socialist undertone to most economic threads.

I'd agree with you there, but it's one of the things that I've always been confused about in the US - I know it's from the USSR and Communism - but Americans don't seem to understand the difference between (i) Communism and Socialism or (ii) Socialist policies and "Socialism".

The vast majority of Americans have Socialist policies impact their everyday lives and they don't even know about it.

Furthermore, a huge swath of Americans would significantly benefit from Socialist policies helping them.

I can only surmise that poor people in America are either ignorant or brainwashed or some combination of the two.

Captain Obvious

Hey Cheerful, I found some actual "coup talk" for you. It's from Trump's campaign.

“If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks,” Mr. Trump said, as the crowd began to boo. He quickly added: “Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”

kunst nugget

ELM327 wrote: »

But what I will say is I'm glad he's not an actual politician as he is free to change his mind when he wishes.

He's the POTUS which means he is an actual politician. As soon as he entered politics, he became a politician…

FreudianSlippers

12gauge dave wrote: »

Donald trump is the leader of the free world. Favourite to win the nobel peace prize award favourite to win in 2020 for a second term.
Must be hard times for you guys he keeps winning and winning and winning:)

ELM327 wrote: »

+1
#MAGA
#TrainStillRollin

I'm wondering why these two who don't even seem to live in the US or be Americans love Donald Trump so much?

seamus

ELM327 wrote: »

Too many liberal changes (CHECK)

Creeping in socialism that didnt work (Obamacare)(CHECK)

Unhappy at left wing ideology being enforced on all, when this is only really supported in California,NY and a couple of other large areas - but the states as a collective union do not generally support (NB look at the geographic vote dispersion)(CHECK)

Taking some sort of action against the border problem, terrorism and immigration (CHECK)

Being a "voice for the voiceless" in the whitehouse, IE those who do not support or conform to this liberal agenda.(CHECK)

So that's four "sticking it to the liberals" and one "curtailing immigration".

Can you tease out any kind of detail, what "liberal changes" in particular most draw your ire? The things which have happened, which you believe Trump is reversing, or will reverse?

everlast75

ELM327 wrote: »

+1
#MAGA
#TrainStillRollin

What is hilarious is that you think that this makes "us libs" shake our collective fists at the screen, get us all riled up, foaming at the mouth, and then for us to blast back with some insults, so you can then say "triggered" and chuckle at the "cucks".

When what, in reality happens, with me anyway - I can't speak for others, is I actually laugh and shake my head. And its not out of annoyance, its out of confusion and pity. You cannot see (or else pretend not to see) what is staring you in the face.

If there was any way for this to happen, I would love to see the following play out.

In a particular state - any state, after Trump is gone, supporters succeed from the Union to allow them live in that State with him as their leader. Over the course of a couple of months, others will watch him bleed them dry and then throw them under the bus. The only mystery would be if, at any stage, the penny would drop with them, or would it be "lemmings off a cliff" right to the end.

Leroy42

ELM327 wrote: »

Without the reason for the change I can't say why he changed his mind.
But what I will say is I'm glad he's not an actual politician as he is free to change his mind when he wishes.

He didn't change his mind, he misspoke. So he believed that Russia meddled in the election but has not once held Russia to account for that? He met face to face with Putin and after which he, when asked a direct question by a journalist on whether he would tell Putin not to do it again, (and at this point he is saying that he believes Russia was directly involved) he refused to call him out.

He has never explained what he has received that has led him to finally believe that Russia meddled, as he has been clear that it didn't for so long. But since he now does, isn't is not only right, but necessary for US democracy that Mueller be not only allowed, but helped in every way to get to the bottom of it? So he can now stop with the personal attacks and retract him statements about Mueller and the 13 democrats.

Surely now, now that he fully accepts that Russia meddled, his next meeting will be with Mueller to give Mueller all he needs so that he can sort this whole thing out.

Politicians change their minds all the time. Remember Bush and "no new taxes"? But of course people didn't like that. What people want is that a politician at lest makes up their minds based on evidence, facts and figures and expert advice. So, now that he accepts the experts on Russia, on what basis was his previous position of not thinking they did it?

ELM327 wrote: »

Let's see what changes Trump as POTUS brings, and the reason I side with him:

Too many liberal changes (CHECK)

Creeping in socialism that didnt work (Obamacare)(CHECK)

Unhappy at left wing ideology being enforced on all, when this is only really supported in California,NY and a couple of other large areas - but the states as a collective union do not generally support (NB look at the geographic vote dispersion)(CHECK)

Taking some sort of action against the border problem, terrorism and immigration (CHECK)

Being a "voice for the voiceless" in the whitehouse, IE those who do not support or conform to this liberal agenda.(CHECK)

When I was asking the question I actually thought I was leaving it too open and I'd be met with a slew of the economy, stockmarket, more blacks have jobs etc.

But to actually compile a list, the first three of which are because you dislike liberals rather than him actually doing anything positive just goes to prove my point. You are willing to let your country degrade itself, degrade its institutions, degrade its alliances on the altar that they are not as bad as the evil liberals.

So you really don't care what he does, how he does it. All the talk of draining the swamp, America first etc. is all nonsense. Its get rid of liberals first second and last.

Outlaw Pete

Leroy42 wrote: »

So have any Trump supporters anything to actually say on his totally embarrassing climb down yesterday?

There was no 'climb down'. Liberals were too busy screaming 'TREASON' to notice that everyone else knew fine well what Trump was saying. It would be illogical for him to have said that he believed Putin over American intel and yet also say he had confidence in hid intel, but yet that is what liberals were suggesting.

everlast75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

There was no 'climb down'. Liberals were too busy screaming 'TREASON' to notice that everyone else knew fine well what Trump was saying. It would be illogical for him to have said that he believed Putin over American intel and yet also say he had confidence in hid intel, but yet that is what liberals were suggesting.

Everyone else? Really? Including Fox News, Newt et al?

So are you saying he does, or does not believe the american intelligence that Russia interfered in the 2016 election?

I just want to be clear, in circumstances where I am not entirely clear on what Trump says.

pixelburp

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

There was no 'climb down'. Liberals were too busy screaming 'TREASON' to notice that everyone else knew fine well what Trump was saying. It would be illogical for him to have said that he believed Putin over American intel and yet also say he had confidence in hid intel, but yet that is what liberals were suggesting.

Fox News, and many elected Republicans have also been screaming same or thereabouts. The narrative that only Democrats / Liberals have been angry or dismayed at Trumps performance is false and disingenuous.

How many sitting Presidents have had to clarify their wording with another Head of State, to the point where 'misspeaking' caused security issues?

FreudianSlippers

mattser wrote: »

POTUS democratically by his people.
Suck it up, losers.

What part of the US are you from / living in?

Just wondering as the implication seems to be here that you're a "winner"?

Outlaw Pete

everlast75 wrote: »

So are you saying he does, or does not believe the american intelligence that Russia interfered in the 2016 election?

...

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Whether it was, or wasn't, is irrelevant as he said twice at the conference that he had confidence in his intel, and we know from his comments over the last year that he fully accepts that the Russians meddled, hence him having a go at the Obama administration for letting it happen on their watch.

Hurrache

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

There was no 'climb down'. Liberals were too busy screaming 'TREASON' to notice that everyone else knew fine well what Trump was saying. It would be illogical for him to have said that he believed Putin over American intel and yet also say he had confidence in hid intel, but yet that is what liberals were suggesting.

It's been put to people saying this nonsense several times over, without reply unsurprisingly. But at what point in time did Fox News, and members of the GOP, change their polarity and become 'liberals'?

You haven't had a valid point to make at all in all of this, other than the pathetic refrain of 'liberals', as if somehow that's an insult.

FreudianSlippers

Except that's not what he said at the press conference. It's a massive climb-down after.

Leroy42

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

There was no 'climb down'. Liberals were too busy screaming 'TREASON' to notice that everyone else knew fine well what Trump was saying. It would be illogical for him to have said that he believed Putin over American intel and yet also say he had confidence in hid intel, but yet that is what liberals were suggesting.

So you knew that when he say he "would" he actually meant "wouldn't"? Why didn't you come on here at time and tell us all?

Ah, its just the fault of Liberals, who now include Fox News, GOP senators, Newt Gingrich and many others, that we misunderstood him when he misspoke?

Why didn't he answer the journalist on telling Putin not to do it again? This is the most powerful man in the world, who only a few days before ahd delighted many with his tough talk to Germany, but couldn't even let Putin know that America is watching and willing to act?

Why, if he believes that Russia meddled, did he think it was 'an incredible offer' for the investigation to move to Russia? He already knows they did it, why would they even need to get involved.

See, it really doesn't make any sense no matter how you try to spin it. If you pick you way, its gets totally contradicted by something else he said, Try something else and the same happens.

Finally, Trump mentioned yesterday that meddling was carried by not just by Russia but by others? So the US system is now under multiple pronged attack? Which other countries? Why have the security services made made this public? Is this a threat to 2018? Are they still active? Or, or, do you think he simply threw that in there to try to lesson the impact of Russia?

Professor Moriarty

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

There was no 'climb down'. Liberals were too busy screaming 'TREASON' to notice that everyone else knew fine well what Trump was saying. It would be illogical for him to have said that he believed Putin over American intel and yet also say he had confidence in hid intel, but yet that is what liberals were suggesting.

What you are saying doesn't make sense. In the context of your post above, could you explain why a "liberal" would be "screaming TREASON"?

Chips Lovell

Seven people have been carded or banned for ignoring the mod warning posted less than an hour ago. Don't say you weren't warned.

ELM327

Leroy42 wrote: »

He didn't change his mind, he misspoke. So he believed that Russia meddled in the election but has not once held Russia to account for that? He met face to face with Putin and after which he, when asked a direct question by a journalist on whether he would tell Putin not to do it again, (and at this point he is saying that he believes Russia was directly involved) he refused to call him out.

He has never explained what he has received that has led him to finally believe that Russia meddled, as he has been clear that it didn't for so long. But since he now does, isn't is not only right, but necessary for US democracy that Mueller be not only allowed, but helped in every way to get to the bottom of it? So he can now stop with the personal attacks and retract him statements about Mueller and the 13 democrats.

Surely now, now that he fully accepts that Russia meddled, his next meeting will be with Mueller to give Mueller all he needs so that he can sort this whole thing out.

Politicians change their minds all the time. Remember Bush and "no new taxes"? But of course people didn't like that. What people want is that a politician at lest makes up their minds based on evidence, facts and figures and expert advice. So, now that he accepts the experts on Russia, on what basis was his previous position of not thinking they did it?

When I was asking the question I actually thought I was leaving it too open and I'd be met with a slew of the economy, stockmarket, more blacks have jobs etc.

But to actually compile a list, the first three of which are because you dislike liberals rather than him actually doing anything positive just goes to prove my point. You are willing to let your country degrade itself, degrade its institutions, degrade its alliances on the altar that they are not as bad as the evil liberals.

He absolutely changed his mind, let's not lose sight of ourselves here.
That's the second time recently - the first being around "children in cages" which I firmly believe was due to Melania.

Leroy42 wrote: »

So you really don't care what he does, how he does it. All the talk of draining the swamp, America first etc. is all nonsense. Its get rid of liberals first second and last.

You know what, I was going to disagree with this but you're actually half right.
It is America First - that's what the trade wars are about, the coal and steel industry - the american jobs etc

But I do actually feel this part actually reflects my stance:

Leroy42 wrote: »

So you really don't care what he does, how he does it.

Water John

Sad part is, to most countries and peoples across the world the POTUS is now a joke.
Trump must have come under some major pressure for him to row back like this. Will we know who did that? The transalater must now be debriefed.

Outlaw Pete

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

...could you explain why a "liberal" would be "screaming TREASON"?

Not really, no. Guess they all want him impeached maybe.

Leroy42 wrote: »

So you knew that when he say he "would" he actually meant "wouldn't"? Why didn't you come on here at time and tell us all?

Was on here all day yesterday saying it was clear what he meant, that he accepted Russia had meddled and that people were aligning him with a view that he never articulated. Unless that is, you took him out of context and ignored the rest of his comments about how he trusted his intel. I was accused of "resorting to extreme literalism" for expressing those views. The irony, eh, given that liberals want Trump done for treason for merely being inarticulate.

ELM327

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Not really, no. Guess they all want him impeached maybe.

That's the thing, every time the POTUS does anything (and even before he was sworn in) the left were calling for him to be impeached.
You can't expect to keep calling for the POTUS to be impeached and then to work together. It's a mass hysteria.
Even on Newstalk this morning, they were saying how ridiculous he was, and had the gall to add at the end "of course we respect all viewpoints on the issue".As if.

Professor Moriarty

ELM327 wrote: »

That's the thing, every time the POTUS does anything (and even before he was sworn in) the left were calling for him to be impeached.
You can't expect to keep calling for the POTUS to be impeached and then to work together. It's a mass hysteria.
Even on Newstalk this morning, they were saying how ridiculous he was, and had the gall to add at the end "of course we respect all viewpoints on the issue".As if.

I don't understand your post. What do you mean by the 'left'?

Water John

Lets be clear, it was the Republicans decided to ditch bipartisanship, to cripple the Obama Presidency.

Professor Moriarty

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Not really, no. Guess they all want him impeached maybe.

Was on here all day yesterday saying it was clear what he meant, that he accepted Russia had meddled and that people were aligning him with a view that he never articulated. Unless that is, you took him out of context and ignored the rest of his comments about how he trusted his intel. I was accused of "resorting to extreme literalism" for expressing those views. The irony, eh, given that liberals want Trump done for treason for merely being inarticulate.

If you don't know what the word 'liberal' means, why not use a different word? 'They' doesn't clarify anything.

ELM327

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I don't understand your post. What do you mean by the 'left'?

A quick google produces a definition.
I did assume by posting in the Politics forum that there would be a base understanding of the difference between left and right wing.

Captain Obvious

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Not really, no. Guess they all want him impeached maybe.

Was on here all day yesterday saying it was clear what he meant, that he accepted Russia had meddled and that people were aligning him with a view that he never articulated. Unless that is, you took him out of context and ignored the rest of his comments about how he trusted his intel. I was accused of "resorting to extreme literalism" for expressing those views. The irony, eh, given that liberals want Trump done for treason for merely being inarticulate.

Why didn't he correct the record on his interview with Hannity if it was a simple misspoken word?

ELM327

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Why didn't he correct the record on his interview with Hannity if it was a simple misspoken word?

As I said, I believe he did change his mind. I dont think even The Donald believes the story of misspoken words

ELM327 wrote: »

He absolutely changed his mind, let's not lose sight of ourselves here.
That's the second time recently - the first being around "children in cages" which I firmly believe was due to Melania.

Pa8301

ELM327 wrote: »

As I said, I believe he did change his mind. I dont think even The Donald believes the story of misspoken words

What basis do you have for this belief that he changed his mind?

Water John

Who has the power to force Donald to change his mind? He must have come under savage pressure.