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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

Please ensure that you are familiar with the charter before posting.

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spacecoyote

listermint wrote: »

Where is it shown, netflix or ??

Below is the sneak peak up on YouTube. It'll be on Showtime. Its along the lines of his previous stuff, but given the way things are currently, there could be some backlash alright.

I think that he managed to trick Sarah Palin at some point during it & she's been losing her sh1t (as you'd expect)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkXeMoBPSDk

listermint

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I have to say I am really looking forward to Trumps response to Sasha Baron Cohen's new series. I'm hoping for a Twitter storm.

Where is it shown, netflix or ??

Zubeneschamali

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

however he never seemed like an absolute moron when he was younger.

When he was younger, he was just a spoiled narcissistic brat. Now he's 72 and has no attention span left, possible early stage dementia and various side effects from all his meds. Late stage neurosyphilis is a real possibility when you see how often he denies any such thing.

Captain Obvious

I have to say I am really looking forward to Trumps response to Sasha Baron Cohen's new series. I'm hoping for a Twitter storm.

FreudianSlippers

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is the same, imo, on why his supporters are classed are ignorant etc. Because to many it makes no sense why any person would support this person. To accept that nearly half the country is willing to make such a choice out of 'choice' rather than ignorance etc means that we really as similar as we like to think.

I agree with all of what you're saying, including this bit... however, there are a significant amount of Trump supporters who are ignorant.

I agree that it's not possible that they all are, unless you believe half the country are ignorant idiots (I'd suggest it's closer to 25%).

everlast75

Working off the basis that he is not a Putin stooge, or at least has some autonomy in terms of his policies, it is clear that he believes in distributive bargaining, ie. a bargaining strategy in which one party gains only if the other party loses something.

In real estate, he could screw people over - he wins. He moves on.

With employees, he can refuse to pay, threaten them when they complain - he wins. He moves on.

However, when you are in the world stage, you have to deal with the same Countries multiple times. If he screws over say NATO, then that will affect how they will deal with him, and they will have to deal with them, again. That penny hasn't dropped yet. Look at how he treated May. He bitched about her to a newspaper, not thinking for a moment that he would have to deal with her the next day.

He cannot see a situation where both parties benefit, and that is a real problem.

Second to that, easily achieved optics is far more important to him hard worked success.

He would take the easy photo op with KJU over months or years of prep work. He doesn't care that nothing will come of it. After all, he appeals therefore to those that don't scratch below the surface and readily eat up whatever he says. I mean look! There are photos!

Leroy42

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

There's a pretty good 4-part documentary on Trump on Netflix at the moment. He has always been shady, sold himself as some kind of epic business man, lied and exaggerated; however he never seemed like an absolute moron when he was younger.

I'm not suggesting he can't have gone off the rails, but after seeing that documentary I felt increasingly like it's dangerous to believe that he's an idiot - he's incredibly dangerous and knows exactly what he's doing is my view.

It is easier for people to believe that he is an idiot because otherwise we have to face the reality that we have such a dangerous person in such a powerful position and they did it deliberately.

It is the same, imo, on why his supporters are classed are ignorant etc. Because to many it makes no sense why any person would support this person. To accept that nearly half the country is willing to make such a choice out of 'choice' rather than ignorance etc means that we really as similar as we like to think.

The real threat is not really the bad men living in a desert somewhere, but the men and women that live in our neighbourhoods and go to our shopping malls. Because they will have a much larger impact on out lives than the unlikely occurrence of being involved in a terrorist event.

Leroy42

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

So in Trump-land the European Union is "foe" because they retaliated tariffs against the US? Like he expects that he can place tariffs against the EU and the EU is just going to shrug?

I know it's a losing game, but I'm genuinely stumped at what his thought process is here.

My reading of it is that is not about the tariffs, the retaliation is simply part of a trade war which even says are easy to win.

It is more that the EU has been trading with a surplus with the US for years and won't allow there products (like GM crops and chlorinated chicken) into the EU.

He deems that unfair and as such they are a foe.

With statements like this we need to remember that Trump is not playing 3d chess, this is not an all emcompasing review of the relationship. He is strictly speaking in trade terms. It is not about NATO, or security, or anything. It is based on the notion that business is a competition, win-lose scenario. Either he gets to build the hotel or he doesn't. Therefore the country council (or whatever) putting up objections are planning laws is the foe. The Scottish person that won't sell their house near the gold course is the foe.

Once he gets what he wants they will be the best of friends.

FreudianSlippers

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Getting to the root of the matter:

Is Trump just a complete fcuking moron or is he hopelessly compromised by Russia?

I'm inclined to the latter mixed with a little bit of the former.

pixelburp wrote: »

My own personal theory? Trump got access to credit via shady connections in Russia and elsewhere, helping him stay afloat after the 2008 crash. While possibly not knowingly in bed with Russia, I suspect this has left him vulnerable to manipulation from those around him who DO have closer ties to Putin & co., such as Manifort and the ilk. IE, I think Trump is just the wealthiest patsy going, and perhaps doesn't even know it.

Like I said, personal theory grounded in tattle and heresay, as well as repeated sources that suggest Trumps. .. "unconventional" access to finance.

There's a pretty good 4-part documentary on Trump on Netflix at the moment. He has always been shady, sold himself as some kind of epic business man, lied and exaggerated; however he never seemed like an absolute moron when he was younger.

I'm not suggesting he can't have gone off the rails, but after seeing that documentary I felt increasingly like it's dangerous to believe that he's an idiot - he's incredibly dangerous and knows exactly what he's doing is my view.

FreudianSlippers

So in Trump-land the European Union is "foe" because they retaliated tariffs against the US? Like he expects that he can place tariffs against the EU and the EU is just going to shrug?

I know it's a losing game, but I'm genuinely stumped at what his thought process is here.

Christy42

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

From a while ago in case anyone hasn't seen it.

Yeah, John's great, from awhile ago too.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlHo-F1z_aw

Not actually a counter to the point being made about Donald Trump.

[Deleted User]

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, John's great, from awhile ago too.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlHo-F1z_aw

You'll find more than that if ya keep looking.
Is this another attempt at the whole "underdog" narrative? Just a lowly heir to a fortune gifted millions by his father, victim of bankruptcy several times, made less than he would have on an index stock investment managed to rise to a privileged position.

StringerBell

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, John's great, from awhile ago too.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlHo-F1z_aw

Yep, he did a bit on his show where he took full responsibility for all that has happened since. Though I think we know Obama had more to do with it (not to mention good old fashioned racism)

John Oliver is excellent though, I'd highly recommend him. Very funny and informative, his ads he puts on fox for Trump are normally good value too.

His ability to get through a large amount of information and break it down easily for the general public is an often overlooked talent.

Outlaw Pete

Deleted User wrote: »

From a while ago in case anyone hasn't seen it.

Yeah, John's great, from awhile ago too.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlHo-F1z_aw

EdgeCase

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Well the last week has been an absolute sh*t show. Hopefully he finds some mental capacity for the Putin meeting, the thoughts of him meeting one-on-one with Putin (a former KGB agent) is pretty unsettling. Christ knows what he'll tell him.

It really must be very frustrating for the US intelligence community.
I mean can you imagine, your entire career is dedicated to protecting the nation, keeping secrets, ensuring things are safe and then along comes president blabbermouth, cozying up with enemies of the US and verbally attacking friendly countries and allies.

PropJoe10

Well the last week has been an absolute sh*t show. Hopefully he finds some mental capacity for the Putin meeting, the thoughts of him meeting one-on-one with Putin (a former KGB agent) is pretty unsettling. Christ knows what he'll tell him.

Water John

The doubling down on the EU is simply on the prompting of his friend, Farage.
Really has shown his limit and what a fraud he is on this trip, and not finished yet.
Lines mainly being fed clearly for his base back home. Not a leader of a country. Hasn't the capacity.

everlast75

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Getting to the root of the matter:

Is Trump just a complete fcuking moron or is he hopelessly compromised by Russia?

I'm inclined to the latter mixed with a little bit of the former.

Everything in the Steele dossier is true.

Putin played his ego like a fiddle which lead to compromising material.

Peetapes are real.

I also think there is worse.

Trump, when faced with adversity, does what he does. Double down, bluster and threaten.

Except that strategy doesn't work on the world stage.

Hande hoche!

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Getting to the root of the matter:

Is Trump just a complete fcuking moron or is he hopelessly compromised by Russia?

I'm inclined to the latter mixed with a little bit of the former.

Don't think Trump is himself. Wouldn't be surprised if Manafort and company are. Don't think Manafort necessarily has the information to flip on others. That's why he stuck in two legal cases.

With regards Putin, Trump has had a degree of "appreciation" about him, including going back quite a few years. There also the aspect of him seemingly wanting to do the opposite of what get a few of his advisers want. Almost doubling down.

The pipeline mentioned during the summit would also be something the Russians and quite a few European countries would prefer was kept rarely discussed. Not necessarily in Putin's interest for it to be widely mentioned.

Trent Houseboat

Water John wrote: »

You have Gowdy, who I despise, saying Trump should demand from Putin the extradition of the 23 Russians involved in interference in US 2016 election.
Unless Trump is strong on this election interference, he will be badly damaged.

Unlikely,. He's getting credit, and calls for a nobel prize, for having done nothing with North Korea. The trumpists are happy that the libs are triggered, the religious fundamentalists can smell the overturn of Roe and Obergerfeld and the millionaires are happy with their tax cuts. I'd say he's looking good for a second term.
They all agree that Russia is a ruse if it suits their agendas.

BabyCheeses

Manic Moran wrote: »

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-trump-hats-cali-fame-carson-20151124-story.html

About 80% of the company's workforce is Latino, Kennedy estimates. He says that every worker has his or her immigration status verified.

Somehow the distinction between “legal” and “illegal”immigrant keeps getting lost. Most Trump supporters don’t care about being immigrant or not, they care about being legally immigrant.

The man called for a Muslim ban and then you pretend anyone is thick enough to think he only has a problem with illegal immigrants. You have been here long enough to know it has been discussed already.

Did you just forget or think that nobody will notice as you parrot the party line?

pixelburp

listermint wrote: »

Patsy.. it doesn't really explain is constant pro Russian stance and constant as avoidance of saying anything bad about Russia or instill sanctions.

I think he is fully aware of what and who he owes and is no patsy.

Dance with the devil and all that.

I don't think you're wrong, but equally Trump has such an obvious grá for political strongmen, and regimes that resemble the power structure of Trump Org, I'd almost just dismiss his inability to condemn Russia as merely part of that hopeless infatuation.

listermint

pixelburp wrote: »

My own personal theory? Trump got access to credit via shady connections in Russia and elsewhere, helping him stay afloat after the 2008 crash. While possibly not knowingly in bed with Russia, I suspect this has left him vulnerable to manipulation from those around him who DO have closer ties to Putin & co., such as Manifort and the ilk. IE, I think Trump is just the wealthiest patsy going, and perhaps doesn't even know it.

Like I said, personal theory grounded in tattle and heresay, as well as repeated sources that suggest Trumps. .. "unconventional" access to finance.

Patsy.. it doesn't really explain is constant pro Russian stance and constant as avoidance of saying anything bad about Russia or instill sanctions.

I think he is fully aware of what and who he owes and is no patsy.

Dance with the devil and all that.

Water John

You have Gowdy, who I despise, saying Trump should demand from Putin the extradition of the 23 Russians involved in interference in US 2016 election.
Unless Trump is strong on this election interference, he will be badly damaged.

pixelburp

My own personal theory? Trump got access to credit via shady connections in Russia and elsewhere, helping him stay afloat after the 2008 crash. While possibly not knowingly in bed with Russia, I suspect this has left him vulnerable to manipulation from those around him who DO have closer ties to Putin & co., such as Manifort and the ilk. IE, I think Trump is just the wealthiest patsy going, and perhaps doesn't even know it.

Like I said, personal theory grounded in tattle and heresay, as well as repeated sources that suggest Trumps. .. "unconventional" access to finance.

Kermit.de.frog

Getting to the root of the matter:

Is Trump just a complete fcuking moron or is he hopelessly compromised by Russia?

I'm inclined to the latter mixed with a little bit of the former.

PropJoe10

eire4 wrote: »

It is scary no question about it because like it or not but the US is the most powerful country on the planet and when it is being lead by an authoritarian demagogue who seemingly is in thrall to Russia the damage being done is world wide not just restricted to the US.

Absolutely. In the last year, even in the last few weeks, the relationships between the US, EU and UK have been significantly weakened. Christ knows what sort of position we'll be in by the time Trump leaves office - and I fully expect him to get a second term too. It's working out perfectly for Putin. I'd say he can barely believe it.

eire4

PropJoe10 wrote: »

He should be going over there demanding the extradition of the Russians mentioned in Mueller's indictment. Instead, he's too busy cosying up to his boss Putin and attacking his own news media. It's scary times in which we live.

It is scary no question about it because like it or not but the US is the most powerful country on the planet and when it is being lead by an authoritarian demagogue who seemingly is in thrall to Russia the damage being done is world wide not just restricted to the US.

PropJoe10

He should be going over there demanding the extradition of the Russians mentioned in Mueller's indictment. Instead, he's too busy cosying up to his boss Putin and attacking his own news media. It's scary times in which we live.

everlast75

He has said it before, but after the latest indictments which prove the value in the Special Counsel's work which he was and is aware of and still says it, coupled with his admiration for KJU and of course in the context of him meeting Putin with no intention to make demands to hand over the hackers or even bring it up in any real sense, its clear as crystal.