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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

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mcmoustache

2 Scoops wrote: »

I know words, I have the best words. Like you use the word projection I can use the word exaggeration.

I'm fine with people criticizing him or disliking him, comparing normal people to ISIS mentality/behavior is where the exaggeration part comes in.

I'm not too fussed about about isis comparisons with vehicular manslaughter or attacks on civilians. I was referring to your use of "your side" as though people were Clinton/Obama supporters.

mcmoustache

Here's the info relating to wikileaks and Stone communicating with the Russian military:

https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1017812769884819456

https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1017811008721743873

https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1017809890520289280

https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1017809694189146113

I'm just curious, Trumpers, but where are ye putting the goalposts now? We're far beyond "nothingburger" at this point.

WinnyThePoo

mcmoustache wrote: »

I'm not too fussed about about isis comparisons with vehicular manslaughter or attacks on civilians. I was referring to your use of "your side" as though people were Clinton/Obama supporters.

American politics by nature is sadly very tribal. Doesn't matter if you don't like Trump, you must be Clinton supporter. Doesn't matter if your not a fan of Neo-Nazis , you must be an antifa supporter.

Trump is cult of personality .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

'Adrian Teodor Popan defines cult of personality as a "quantitatively exaggerated and qualitatively extravagant public demonstration of praise of the leader". He also identifies three causal "necessary, but not sufficient, structural conditions, and a path dependent chain of events which, together, lead to the cult formation: a particular combination of patrimonialism and clientelism, lack of dissidence, and systematic falsification pervading the society’s culture."'

Also its always a good time to listen to living color.

Harika

Let's go back to the winning like trump did with North Korea. Who remembers when he said that 200 remains of us soldiers are on the way back home after the meeting?
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/06/21/trump-says-north-korea-has-returned-remains-mia-troops-it-true.html

Matthis then had to clarify that this is not the case but they are negotiating.

Today this stopped now to

https://mobile.twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1017421762383044608

North Korea got everything they wanted and trump nothing in return. Edit that didn't stop trump fans to claim families were in tears over having their loved ones back.

mcmoustache

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

American politics by nature is sadly very tribal. Doesn't matter if you don't like Trump, you must be Clinton supporter. Doesn't matter if your not a fan of Neo-Nazis , you must be an antifa supporter.

Trump is cult of personality .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

'Adrian Teodor Popan defines cult of personality as a "quantitatively exaggerated and qualitatively extravagant public demonstration of praise of the leader". He also identifies three causal "necessary, but not sufficient, structural conditions, and a path dependent chain of events which, together, lead to the cult formation: a particular combination of patrimonialism and clientelism, lack of dissidence, and systematic falsification pervading the society’s culture."'

Also its always a good time to listen to living color.

It's fascinating seeing it in action. There are some posters here who's opinions were very similar to mine in terms of social welfare, taxation, Islam, travelers, bogus asylum seekers, crime and punishment, third wave feminism, the far left, the far progressives and a host of other areas. By Irish standards, I lean to the right in a lot of areas but since I'm not religious, there are other areas where I lean left such as with gay rights, women's rights and other areas where I'm unaffected by the behaviour of others (equal rights - I'm against quotas).

When Trump came along, these posters bought Trump hook, line and sinker. When Trump got the nomination, I saw him as a dumbass populist preying on people's base instincts. He was offering simplistic solutions to complex problems. He couldn't make any coherent point beyond silly sound bites. I couldn't believe that people who's opinion I respected were falling for this. Trump's shtick isn't new or original.

Whatever about his policies, whatever about his Russian connections, whatever about him messing up the international order that's brought us so much prosperity, Trump is so evidently a conman and one would think that people can see through this. The mental gymnastics required to defend him are insane.

The worst part of this though has been the dishonesty that his supporters have employed. It's as if they know what I know but put it aside for the "greater good" whatever the hell that is. Maybe there's an element of trolling akin to Sartres "The Antisemites". I'm not sure.

Whatever is going on, a lot on the right are all in on this as though you can't lean right and think Trump is a fraud. It's like they don't understand that you can lean right and dislike a lying cnut who can't string a sentence together and acts like a petulant child and behaves like a Russian stooge. I decide on things on their own merit. These people are just partaking in groupthink. It's a personality cult.

mcmoustache

Harika wrote: »

Let's go back to the winning like trump did with North Korea. Who remembers when he said that 200 remains of us soldiers are on the way back home after the meeting?
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/06/21/trump-says-north-korea-has-returned-remains-mia-troops-it-true.html

Matthis then had to clarify that this is not the case but they are negotiating.

Today this stopped now to

https://mobile.twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1017421762383044608

North Korea got everything they wanted and trump nothing in return. Edit that didn't stop trump fans to claim families were in tears over having their loved ones back.

So, Trump made a load of concessions and got nothing in return? The master negotiator? I'm shocked I tell you. Nobody could have predicted this. He told us that he makes the best deals and solved the proliferation problem.

Could we get a poorly formatted response to this?

Danzy

jobbridge4life wrote: »

'I'm the only one' Trump. I'm old enough to remember when people would decry Obama for being messianic.

It is also telling that you write Tea Party without quotation marks, as though that was an established fact...

The Tea Party, were an actual movement, same as I would write Momentum without quotation marks.

"The Resistance" is named after a Sci fi film group.

Why should I take them seriously when they do not take themselves serious.

It has all the arrogance and pomposity of that group Mary Robinson was in, The Elders.

The two though are remarkably similar in attitude and mannerisms.

mcmoustache

Danzy, I don't agree with everything you write but I'd like to point out that I don't include you in what I said about Trump supporters earlier in relation to the personality cult stuff. It's clear from your posts that your thoughts are your own and reflect sincerely held beliefs. You're not making things up - you just have a different view on how things should be done and I respect that.

That's all.

Hande hoche!

The Republican Congressional candidate's staff mentioned trying to contact Guccifer 2.0 is an interesting tidbit. Imagine that person might be sweating bullets. Alternatively they might have been a fringe candidate. Still intriguing to see the people caught up in it.

listermint

mcmoustache wrote: »

Danzy, I don't agree with everything you write but I'd like to point out that I don't include you in what I said about Trump supporters earlier in relation to the personality cult stuff. It's clear from your posts that your thoughts are your own and reflect sincerely held beliefs. You're not making things up - you just have a different view on how things should be done and I respect that.

That's all.

I don't know why because danzy likes to paint vast swathes of people with a big brush indicating anyone who is against trump suffers from some manic episode of anti trump ideology.oh and they are left and they are all wealthy.

Why would anyone apologise to someone who holds such nonsense belief's with zero evidence to back it up. Then comes up with nonsense anecdotes.

Sorry I can't subscribe to having individual thought if you propagate stuff you read on Reddit.

Danzy

mcmoustache wrote: »

Danzy, I don't agree with everything you write but I'd like to point out that I don't include you in what I said about Trump supporters earlier in relation to the personality cult stuff. It's clear from your posts that your thoughts are your own and reflect sincerely held beliefs. You're not making things up - you just have a different view on how things should be done and I respect that.

That's all.

Fair play to ya for that.

Civility in this matter is so out of context that it says a lot about how divided things have become.

I've drank with people who were ex British army who knew I got lifted in the 90s for selling Easter lilies but by God I'd dread to drink a few with a young activist today and disagree with them on a small thing.

Those most opposed and in favour of Trump, he is a lightning rod for issues and outlook are so alike, theological in outlook. It is theological, on both sides, A God has little to do with theology and in this is it acted out.

I'm going to Jordan Peterson tomorrow in Dublin, if you are hurling bricks at those going in try to miss the lad in the grey shirt, appreciate it.

Danzy

listermint wrote: »

I don't know why because danzy likes to paint vast swathes of people with a big brush indicating anyone who is against trump suffers from some manic episode of anti trump ideology.oh and they are left and they are all wealthy.

Why would anyone apologise to someone who holds such nonsense belief's with zero evidence to back it up. Then comes up with nonsense anecdotes.

Sorry I can't subscribe to having individual thought if you propagate stuff you read on Reddit.

Burn the Witch! Burn the heretic sympathizer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRHetRTOD1Q
A band from the 80s sung this about dealing with people like you.

mcmoustache

listermint wrote: »

I don't know why because danzy likes to paint vast swathes of people with a big brush indicating anyone who is against trump suffers from some manic episode of anti trump ideology.oh and they are left and they are all wealthy.

Why would anyone apologise to someone who holds such nonsense belief's with zero evidence to back it up. Then comes up with nonsense anecdotes.

Sorry I can't subscribe to having individual thought if you propagate stuff you read on Reddit.

I'm not saying that he should be apologised to or agreed with or anything like that. All I'm saying is that he's not a sycophant, a propagandist or a troll. He's got different ideas about how things should be and while I can disagree with his ideas, I see a big difference between him and Trump fans.

To me, the difference between a sycophant and someone with different opinions is huge.

mcmoustache

Hande hoche! wrote: »

The Republican Congressional candidate's staff mentioned trying to contact Guccifer 2.0 is an interesting tidbit. Imagine that person might be sweating bullets. Alternatively they might have been a fringe candidate. Still intriguing to see the people caught up in it.

According to republican strategist Rick Wilson, it's Florida congressman Brian Mast. Make of that what you will.

SeaBreezes

Also his party has stared the electoral 'adjustment' this year. Tidying up the electorate and ensuring people have to register to vote again.
What's the betting there will be many many registering 'mistakes' in unfriendly areas?

Hande hoche!

mcmoustache wrote: »

According to republican strategist Rick Wilson, it's Florida congressman Brian Mast. Make of that what you will.

Know Rick Wilson from losing his cool during news segments and on Twitter. Still interesting, thanks for the info.

Manic Moran

RIGOLO wrote: »

We agreed a major update of the NATO Command Structure. With more than 1,200 new personnel.

I wouldn’t read much into the Norfolk thing. It’s been the major US navy base on the East Coast for decades, if not the major US navy base anywhere for over a century. They just reactivated Second Fleet in Norfolk a couple months ago (Responsible for North Atlantic), it was deactivated in 2011.

As for leaving NATO it’s not all a one-way street, and it’s not as if there was no precedent at all. The largest military in NATO after the US left the military organization in 1966, and only returned in 2009. All US troops in France as a result were expelled. Of course, the reality was more political than practical: Bilateral agreements were in place to bring French troops into the structure if a war kicked off, even if this was less than ideal for efficiency, and US troops just moved across the border. One would not be surprised to find that the US would retain bilateral defense agreements with countries like Poland or Latvia, complete with basing rights.

As an aside, the Luftwaffe’s major training bases are in the US. They just consolidated their air defense units from Texas to combine with their New Mexico flying facility. The Southern US has excellent flying weather all year and lots of open space to fly over and bomb, making it well suited for the Germans to train. The German unit in a Florida remains as well. A departure from NATO would require the Germans reconfigure their fundamental training structure.

Of course, fundamentally, it is a stupid threat. US security needs require that the US defends Europe, whether the Europeans approve or not.

mcmoustache

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Know Rick Wilson from losing his cool during news segments and on Twitter. Still interesting, thanks for the info.

Yeah, he seems sane and has a great way with words but I'm a bit uneasy about his occasional retweeting of Louise Mensch and her #resistance friends.

listermint

mcmoustache wrote: »

I'm not saying that he should be apologised to or agreed with or anything like that. All I'm saying is that he's not a sycophant, a propagandist or a troll. He's got different ideas about how things should be and while I can disagree with his ideas, I see a big difference between him and Trump fans.

To me, the difference between a sycophant and someone with different opinions is huge.

Sorry but anyone who describes people those who are not 'with' trump as wealthy leftys does not deserve any kudos.

Read the post content you'll soon see what's what.

No time for that, that is not self thought it's subscribed group think

Hande hoche!

mcmoustache wrote: »

Yeah, he seems sane and has a great way with words but I'm a bit uneasy about his occasional retweeting of Louise Mensch and her #resistance friends.

Louise Mensch and Eric Garland's activities on Twitter always lead me to have a degree of caution with the latest developments in the Russia investigation.

Still have Manfort and Concord Management trials to come. Also Flynne's sentencing when they finally get around to it.

smurgen

Hande hoche! wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Could be both.either way i think his time is running out.

Not too sure about that. At this rate we should have a Donald Trump Presidency thread V to discuss on.

Haha **** off ****** frump about to toast.take a.bow!

StringerBell

Danzy wrote: »

I'm going to Jordan Peterson tomorrow in Dublin, if you are hurling bricks at those going in try to miss the lad in the grey shirt, appreciate it.

I am also going to Harris and Peterson tomorrow. I'll make sure to keep an eye out for you

Danzy

StringerBell wrote: »

I am also going to Harris and Peterson tomorrow. I'll make sure to keep an eye out for you

We could meet up for a drink after.

We could live stream it.

Listeria could bless us with holy water after, to cast out the demons.

mcmoustache

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Louise Mensch and Eric Garland's activities on Twitter always lead me to have a degree of caution with the latest developments in the Russia investigation.

I followed them for a few months but they were just so wrong about things enough times in that short space of time that I just had to write them off. Her website on patribotics.com is little more than an anti-Trump infowars. I don't want to be told what I want to hear, I want to know things that actually happened and that lot are a bunch of frauds in that regard.

That lot being right about the occasional event isn't enough to justify reading through the rest of their nonsense.

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Still have Manfort and Concord Management trials to come. Also Flynne's sentencing when they finally get around to it.

I'm looking forward to the Manafort trial. He's some piece of work. If you haven't already, you should check out "Get me Roger Stone" on netflix. Both he and Stone are Grade-A cnuts.

With the Concord case, their legal team seems to be doing little more than trolling at this point. They're pulling a Manafort and challenging Muellers authority instead of defending their actions. I suspect that they'll just wind up and go poof in the night.

mcmoustache

listermint wrote: »

Sorry but anyone who describes people those who are not 'with' trump as wealthy leftys does not deserve any kudos.

Read the post content you'll soon see what's what.

No time for that, that is not self thought it's subscribed group think

I'll check it out tomorrow. Broadbrushing all anti trump people as rich lefties is unfair and I'll respond if I see it. I just wanted to make a distinction between the Trump sycophants/trolls/liars and people who have opinions that I disagree with.

When I was coming of age, DCU redbrick had very healthy debate between left and right ideas but we shared the same, single reality. With Trump, we have people either living in a different reality or are just lying/trolling. I think that the difference here is important and again, I don't advocate his position at all.

MadYaker

So will there be any reprecusions considering what has just been revealed by the Mueller investigation? I know indictments and convictions aren't the same thing but you'd really want to have your head in the sand to not think that Putin ordered this and, to some extent at least, it had an effect. Why is Trump so soft on Putin and Russia in general? There is definitely reason enough for sactions at the very least no? I've been reading facebook, reddit and a few other websites to try and guage Trump supporters reaction to this and how they square this with Trumps general attitude towards russia and most seem to put it down to some sort of conspiracy theory by "the deep state".

Regardless of who I voted for if I was American id want this gotten to the bottom of and measures put in place to ensure that other nations can't easily fcuk with American elections in the future. But all I see from Trump supporters (online at least) is deflection and whataboutery. Are they not genuinely worried about this? Because it sure as hell seems to me like they should be. These people claim to be nationalists who love democracy and yet here we have a foreign power attempting to subvert their elections and it is simply dismissed in favor of ranting about muslims and antifa? Bewildering. You'd have to be a fool to think that russian intel services aren't trying the same thing in the upcoming mid terms.

mattser

Baby in the sky was an absolute embarrassment. Could the childish anti President Trump people not have come up with something more classy ?

WinnyThePoo

mattser wrote: »

Baby in the sky was an absolute embarrassment. Could the childish anti President Trump people not have come up with something more classy ?

Why present a classless individual in a classy way?

The balloon is hilarious. Chapeau whoever came up with it.

mcmoustache

MadYaker wrote: »

So will there be any reprecusions considering what has just been revealed by the Mueller investigation? I know indictments and convictions aren't the same thing but you'd really want to have your head in the sand to not think that Putin ordered this and, to some extent at least, it had an effect. Why is Trump so soft on Putin and Russia in general? There is definitely reason enough for sactions at the very least no? I've been reading facebook, reddit and a few other websites to try and guage Trump supporters reaction to this and how they square this with Trumps general attitude towards russia and most seem to put it down to some sort of conspiracy theory by "the deep state".

Regardless of who I voted for if I was American id want this gotten to the bottom of and measures put in place to ensure that other nations can't easily fcuk with American elections in the future. But all I see from Trump supporters (online at least) is deflection and whataboutery. Are they not genuinely worried about this? Because it sure as hell seems to me like they should be. These people claim to be nationalists who love democracy and yet here we have a foreign power attempting to subvert their elections and it is simply dismissed in favor of ranting about muslims and antifa? Bewildering. You'd have to be a fool to think that russian intel services aren't trying the same thing in the upcoming mid terms.

You're not that mad, mister Yaker. Your analysis is quite sound. The republican senate intelligence committee and republican Robert Mueller and republican Rod Rosenstein agree that the Russians worked to help Trump get elected.

Assuming for a moment that Trump isn't a Russian stooge, how might one expect a Russian stooge to behave geopolitically?

mcmoustache

mattser wrote: »

Baby in the sky was an absolute embarrassment. Could the childish anti President Trump people not have come up with something more classy ?

What would you suggest? It was enough for Trump to be enough of a snowflake to stay away from London. Poor liddle Trump - afraid of a balloon.