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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

Please ensure that you are familiar with the charter before posting.

Thanks.

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Midlife

StringerBell wrote: »

It's not, because in the bubble they won't. Simply more fake news to add to the pile.

Or they're just not very bright.

I recall seeing comments from a British man who was kidnapped by ISIS for a year saying what really gets you is just how stupid they all are, the things they say and the things they believe in. It's kind of a movement with a very dangerous philosophical types on top and an army of idiots who know very little about the world.

Captain Obvious

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It is absolutely crazy to think Trump and his hangers on would think people would not notice

There's no consequences for them.

She lied then doubled down despite both her and Trump's tweets from the day timestamping it.

jobbridge4life

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Great to see sky news showing up the ignorant loud mouth protestors in their true form today,

No one can be called an 'ignorant loud mouth' in reference to Trump. Sorry bout that.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

an absolute disgraceful way to treat the US president regardless of who they are.

Peasceful protest is a completely appropriate way to treat the elected leader of a democracy, particularly one that prides itself so virulently on its commitment to free speech.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Nice to see Donald making some good progress on trade talks

Bah... you have to be taking the proverbial... There are no trade talks, let alone progress. Only last night he said they were dead in the water based on May's plans...

2 Scoops

Midlife wrote: »

Or they're just not very bright.

I recall seeing comments from a British man who was kidnapped by ISIS for a year saying what really gets you is just how stupid they all are, the things they say and the things they believe in. It's kind of a movement with a very dangerous philosophical types on top and an army of idiots who know very little about the world.

Sorry If I misread this, are you comparing Trump supporters to ISIS?

mcmoustache

mcmoustache wrote: »

12 Russian military personnel have been indicted in the Mueller investigation. This indictment covers the DNC hack and seems to imply that there was no involvement from Seth Rich or someone working for Craig Murray and that it was in fact Russian military.

It also suggests that Guccifer 2.0 was not a Romanian lone wolf hacker as some were claiming here.

I really wish people would stop lying in their efforts to defend Trump online.

Just to add to this, the indictment against the Russians points out that Roger Stone and another US Congressional candidate were in communication with those Russians as were wikileaks. The indictment is an interesting read.

Christy42

Captain Obvious wrote: »

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It is absolutely crazy to think Trump and his hangers on would think people would not notice

There's no consequences for them.

She lied then doubled down despite both her and Trump's tweets from the day timestamping it.

Some Trump supporters will believe it and it helps avoid voter apathy by keeping up the pretence of a fight no matter how obviously ridiculous.

Hence why Trump keeps saying this stuff. If he went to the truth he would be sunk in a month or two. Keep lying and you give people enough to keep the faith.

Hande hoche!

mcmoustache wrote: »

12 Russian military personnel have been indicted in the Mueller investigation. This indictment covers the DNC hack and seems to imply that there was no involvement from Seth Rich or someone working for Craig Murray and that it was in fact Russian military.

It also suggests that Guccifer 2.0 was not a Romanian lone wolf hacker as some were claiming here.

I really wish people would stop lying in their efforts to defend Trump online.

It keeps the ball rolling on the investigation. Indicting Russians and adding investigators. Think the court case is ongoing with one of the Russian companies from the previous batch (Concord management?).

StringerBell

2 Scoops wrote: »

Sorry If I misread this, are you comparing Trump supporters to ISIS?

I knew someone would latch on to a direct comparison

I doubt that is what the poster meant, but I tell you what. Some of that evangelical base of his are not that far removed from ISIS in that they are two sides of the same theological bat**** crazy legislate my religious beliefs and damn those who don't share mine coin.

There is a pretty apt meme I could put up here but I know it's not really welcomed here so..

Leroy42

It is quite extraordinary that alarms bells are not ringing everywhere in relation to the Russian interference. That the entire GOP and Trump supporters seem totally unmoved by any of it is staggering to me.

Trump, like all leaders, is just some guy. He won't be around forever. But the damage that the Russians have been able to inflict could have very long lasting effects.

Regardless of whether one believes Trump was actively involved (and based on the players like Manafort and Stone and Trump Jr I cannot understand why anybody thinks not) but parking that surely the US, through their POTUS, should be doing everything in its power to curb this threat.

Instead we have POTUS arguing with allies, demanding more money for NATO, setting up trade wars.

Is it that the typical America voter just does not see the threat or is it that they are actively ignoring it? They are a country that spends $700bn plus on military and yet were attacked by a few planes and now attacked through the internet. Yet the only response seems to be to build more aircraft carriers.

Midlife

2 Scoops wrote: »

Sorry If I misread this, are you comparing Trump supporters to ISIS?

Not in deeds obviously.

In terms of their free-thinking and critical evaluation of their choices, I'd compare them to any group of people that blindly follow a cause and that have the ability to ignore very obvious facts. Usually not that bright.

I just knew the story about ISIS.

2 Scoops

StringerBell wrote: »

I knew someone would latch on to a direct comparison

I doubt that is what the poster meant, but I tell you what. Some of that evangelical base of his are not that far removed from ISIS in that they are two sides of the same theological coin.

There is a pretty apt meme I could put up here but I know it's not really welcomed here so..

That's exactly what he was saying, and you've doubled down on it.

I'm sure your meme would be allowed no problem since comparing people you disagree with to ISIS is allowed.

This forum/thread is beyond radical and hyper partisan.

pixelburp

Hande hoche! wrote: »

It keeps the ball rolling on the investigation. Indicting Russians and adding investigators. Think the court case is ongoing with one of the Russian companies from the previous batch (Concord management?).

Politically the timing feels apt as well, given Trump is due to meet Putin, where the President had promised to talk about interference, look Putin square in the eye and make him pinky swear Russia had nothing to do with the 2016 election.

I predict more rambling speeches after this conference, Trump declaring 'no collusion! witchhunt!' before talking about the electoral college result again.

StringerBell

2 Scoops wrote: »

That's exactly what he was saying, and you've doubled down on it.

I'm sure your meme would be allowed no problem since comparing people you disagree with to ISIS is allowed.

This forum/thread is beyond radical and hyper partisan.

No it's not exactly what he was saying, he was talking more about the intelligence level of the type of people who tend to buy in to this kind of bull****. I can't speak for that only to say that's not what I do is it, I disagree with lots, lots of people who bear no resemblance to the nut jobs in question. As your hero would say though,it's just call a spade a spade.

Leroy42

2 Scoops wrote: »

That's exactly what he was saying, and you've doubled down on it.

I'm sure your meme would be allowed no problem since comparing people you disagree with to ISIS is allowed.

This forum/thread is beyond radical and hyper partisan.

Have you an idea on the basis on which ISIS believe they are undertaken their crusade?

And how is that different, not in terms of actions but in terms of the basis of belief, the people are are prepared to set aside any ideals or notions of morals in order to commit to a belief system, in this case Trump.

They are talking from a psychological point of view, not a physical one

VonZan

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's just sloganeering. Trump supporters will always view what Trump does as being the best thing ever. When he flips his position, that will also be the best thing ever. When he's rambling incoherently and nobody's sure what he means, he's just keeping everyone guessing and keeping his cards to his chest.

Sure but that's his whole game. He reveals very little about his plans so he doesn't really have to commit to anything and can blame Congress and the Democrats for failing to agree on any major reform in the US.

The lesson, hopefully, for the next election will be that partisan politics wins nothing.

Hande hoche!

pixelburp wrote: »

Politically the timing feels apt as well, given Trump is due to meet Putin, where the President had promised to talk about interference, look Putin square in the eye and make him pinky swear Russia had nothing to do with the 2016 election.

I predict more rambling speeches after this conference, Trump declaring 'no collusion! witchhunt!' before talking about the electoral college result again.

Yeah seemingly Rosenstein briefed Trump earlier on in the week. Might explain the references to meddling during the press conference earlier today.

2 Scoops

Leroy42 wrote: »

Have you an idea on the basis on which ISIS believe they are undertaken their crusade?

And how is that different, not in terms of actions but in terms of the basis of belief, the people are are prepared to set aside any ideals or notions of morals in order to commit to a belief system, in this case Trump.

They are talking from a psychological point of view, not a physical one

I've seen some radical stuff written here but this argument just goes beyond any of that, and now multiple posters are trying to justify it

Your side lost the election, stop comparing people who've done nothing wrong to terrorists

Water John

Scoops you're just deflecting from the real story of the Russian meddling. We can all see that. Try a bit harder and more subtly next time.

2 Scoops

Water John wrote: »

Scoops you're just deflecting from the real story of the Russian meddling. We can all see that. Try a bit harder and more subtly next time.

And here we go with the angry mob mentality/deflection excuse when someone calls out how radical this thread is, predictable really.

Water John

Lets fact check. Was it the 23rd or 24th June 2016 Trump was in Scotland?
Scoops, do you agree he and some of his cronies are lying?

Leroy42

2 Scoops wrote: »

I've seen some radical stuff written here but this argument just goes beyond any of that, and now multiple posters are trying to justify it

Your side lost the election, stop comparing people who've done nothing wrong to terrorists

You can get as upset as you like, maybe if I said that some of them were good people you would feel better about it.

All followers of a cult display the same things. Unquestioning of the leader, feeling that any questioning of the leader of the belief is an attack to them contra'd. Every interaction must result in a win for the belief, no inch can be given as that might open up doubt. Acceptance of contrary statements and beliefs if it justifies to overall.

Many Trump supporters exhibit many of these traits. Terrorists are simply cults that have taken these traits to extremes.

pixelburp

Accusations of "sides" is a bit trite on an Irish discussion forum of all things; "your side lost" is the sort of thing sports fanatics say for goodness sake and given 99% of us here have no skin in the game - why presume most here have any bias beyond hurling from the ditch at worst?

I'd be hard pressed to vote Democrat in the first place and am quite glad our political system is fairer and more accommodating towards a wide range of views, than "pick 1 from 2"

2 Scoops

Water John wrote: »

Scoops, do you agree he and some of his cronies are lying?

I've never said anything differently.

Danzy

2 Scoops wrote: »

And here we go with the angry mob mentality/deflection excuse when someone calls out how radical this thread is, predictable really.

The Tea Party and "The Resistance" are largely the same mentality and manner.

As for the term "The Resistance", how f'ing far up their own hole must one be to have coined that phrase. It is largely a media thing but how out of touch must they be.

Water John

All you have to do, is say, Trump is lying.

2 Scoops

Leroy42 wrote: »

You can get as upset as you like

I'm not upset, I'm just bewildered.

As for terrorists and cult like behavior, have a look at the violence of the radical left in the US or your own parties behavior and actions before projecting it onto others

Hande hoche!

Danzy wrote: »

The Tea Party and "The Resistance" are largely the same mentality and manner.

As for the term "The Resistance", how f'ing far up their own hole must one be to have coined that phrase. It is largely a media thing but how out of touch must they be.

Was at least partially influenced by the release of a Star Wars film at the time.

StringerBell

Water John wrote: »

All you have to do, is say, Trump is lying.

Not capable.

2 Scoops

Water John wrote: »

All you have to do, is say, Trump is lying.

Every politician lies, not as abrasively as Trump but in a more conceived conniving way so that you're happy to go along with it.

What voters care about is following through on an agenda and campaign promises, and he's one wall short of doing that.

Danzy

Leroy42 wrote: »

You can get as upset as you like, maybe if I said that some of them were good people you would feel better about it.

All followers of a cult display the same things. Unquestioning of the leader, feeling that any questioning of the leader of the belief is an attack to them contra'd. Every interaction must result in a win for the belief, no inch can be given as that might open up doubt. Acceptance of contrary statements and beliefs if it justifies to overall.

Many Trump supporters exhibit many of these traits. Terrorists are simply cults that have taken these traits to extremes.

Most of that is correct, a bit over the top in the context of the debate though. The last sentence is only sometimes true, more in the breach than the observance.

The first paragraph is hardly out of place in describing many of those who oppose Trump either though.

The old trope about the right looking for converts while the left looks for heretics can be applied as well, and that alone has been a serious problem for every Left wing party in history.

People who really love Trump and really despise him are closer to each other in mentality than they are to most other people.

Comparing them to ISIS is silly, it is like saying that if Corbyn becomes to PM he'll commit mass murder and terror cause that is how the Socialist revolution always ends up. I don't believe he will.