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Tubeless road - it actually works

brownian

I got my first puncture on my Schwalbe Pro One tubeless setup today. Naturally, it was freezing and raining.

I noticed the back wheel felt a bit soft, so I stopped and squeezed it. Sure enough, deffo losing/lost air. Rode on a bit, hoping it'd self-seal, like the theory says.

Five minutes later, had another squeeze. Seems stable. Whip out the pump, lash in some air, so it feels properly hard again (70 PSI? Hard to say in the rain etc., but certainly good to ride).

Four hours later (snow, slush, water, even the odd bit of tarmac), safely home. There is a nasty little cut in the tyre, but no air coming out at all.

While I'm at it - the tubeless do seem to be faster than my usual Conti GP4000sIIs. Certainly hitting a lot of strave PMs without obvious additional effort. The new tubeless wheels are 33mm rims (AL33s), and so a bit more aero, in theory than the 22mm climbing wheels I'd usually use (and also about 350g heavier). I can't see the rims making a big difference (happy to be corrected), so inclined to credit the tubeless.

Anyway, that's just for anyone considering going tubeless - all my experience (maybe 500km) to date is positive.

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rollingscone

harringtonp wrote: »

So these arrived from Evans today and are much smaller than you would think from the site. Attached photo shows a comparison with a pen.

So anyhow I reckon I'll race now carrying just a small pump and these which I hope would get me out of a fix. I wondering though what to put the punch in so as to mitigate against stabbing in the event of an accident and what to put the tyre worms in so they don't disintegrate in wet jersey pockets. Any ideas ?

Lezyne Caddy sack fits a whole repair kit into a pocket friendly size

Brian

I use a spare earphones case, with a few valve cores and a core removal tool in there as well.

harringtonp

Brian wrote: »

I use a spare earphones case, with a few valve cores and a core removal tool in there as well.

Why would you carry spare valve cores ? I can understand carrying a core remover if you also carry some spare sealant.

Brian

harringtonp wrote: »

Why would you carry spare valve cores ? I can understand carrying a core remover if you also carry some spare sealant.

In case I break one while re-inflating or it becomes gummed up with sealant.

timmaii

harringtonp wrote: »

what to put the tyre worms in so they don't disintegrate in wet jersey pockets. Any ideas ?

I ordered one of these yesterday. Looks like a neat solution.

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/tubeless-bits-and-bobs/products/maxalami-tubeless-repair-tube

Some good info on the site about tubeless also.

harringtonp

Put together a small zip lock bag containing a tubeless repair kit. Between carrying it in a jersey pocket and a small pump on the bike, would hope there is enough to get me out of a jam when racing.

Felt more comfortable putting a bung on the end of the tool as don't like the idea of something sharp in the back pocket.

Anything obvious missing that would fit in that pouch ? Will carry a note in there too.

brownian

A sharpener for that pencil?

BTW, I'm glad I held onto that powerful floor pump thing, as you suggested. Stupidity wore away my sidewall (hint - car carrier involved), and had to replace my new (2 rides !!) Pro One on the front of bike. Once I removed the valve core, the pump had the tubeless lad seated and sealed, with much satisfactory popping.

youtheman

Just to relay my experience with my first puncture on my tubeless tyres (on a racing bike). I have them a few months, all they need is topping up with air every few days (like a normal tube). But the last 2 rides I noticed the rear tyre was very soft compared to normal. So while I was examining the tyre I found a small gash with the sealant just gently bubling out (hardly noticeable). I spun the wheel to see if it would stop, but no joy. I tried to expose the defect to see if there was glass of something stuck in it. I released all the air and then re-inflated. After a few seconds I head a pop and saw the sealant pi55ing out, and then it magically sealed. I rode the bike over a 100 km afterwards with no issues. So I concluded the following (but I could be off the wall altogether) : they claim the sealant will seal up to a 3 mm hole, but I reckon it needs a hole to be over a certain size so that you get enough differential pressure across the defect to get the sealant to flow through the resriction, and make the seal.

harringtonp

Rereading thread, If Eamonnator is out there did you ever get up and running with the tubeless setup ?

Eamonnator wrote: »

I don't want to put people off going tubeless because of my experience.
Thanks to everybody, who has given me advice.
Apologies again to O.P. for completely derailing the thread.

I started off again this morning on the wheels.
I put a tube in and inflated the tyre, it was hard to get the tyre on. I took the tube out and reseated the tyre. I put in 60mls of sealant, through the valve, having first removed the core. I rotated the tyre to get the fluid well distributed. I held the wheel off the ground and tried to pump with a track pump. No joy. I tried a CO2 cartridge. No joy. I then sealed around the tyre and rim with duct tape. I tried again. No joy. I then got soapy water and put that around the tyre bead. Still no joy. I also tried rolling the wheel along the ground to seat the tyre.
I think my problem is that the beads of the tyre won't hook onto the rim. But nothing I do helps, there's always a gap between the tyre bead and the side of the rim.
Anyway, I'm running out of CO2 cartridges, patience and ideas. I have now hung the wheels in the garage and hopefully, before Spring, a miracle will occur.

Thanks again to all, who tried to help.

E.

Eamonnator

Yes I did get the tubeless set up going, and it was simplicity itself.
I picked up the phone and rang a mobile mechanic, Gary Sheehan, who works in my area. He collected the wheels and returned them to me a couple of days later.
They work perfectly, roll very well and retain their pressure much better than I thought they would. They are also less harsh on rough surfaces.
The problem was with the rim tape. Like a f***ing eejit, I believed CRC, when they told me that the wheels were tubeless ready. Gary told me, that he tried to instal the wheels with the existing tape, without success. Gary, who is not a f***ing eejit, quickly realised where the problem was, he replaced the rim tape and hey presto, job done.

youtheman

Well I have decided to give up on the tubeless set up (for road going bike). I'm a great believer in modern technology, but this is the first time I've reverted to the older technology having tried the newer. Two reasons:
1. the tyre lasted only a few 100 km, and is full of holes and due to be replaced.
2. it is hard to describe how hard, and frustrating it is, to get the tyre on and off the rim. Like I said previously I broke 4 tyre levers getting them on, and this week I spent over an hour and a half getting one off (you should have seen me, three levers but only 2 hands, and the levers being projected across the room when the pinged loose). The sealing ability is great, and I've experienced this, and it will cover (maybe) 95% of all punctures, but for the other 5% where the sealant doesn't work then I'll have to get a taxi home (as I have no chance of doing a road side repair). That is fine on a club spin where someone might rescue me, but no good if I am abroad or up a mountain on my own.
So I've reverted to my previous set up, standard tyres and tubes, but with sealant in the tubes. Might be a bit heavier, but at least I know I can repair a puncture roadside.

harringtonp

Opposite experiences for me. Was running Schwalbe Pro One 25mm on a Carbonal 50mm deep wide rim since last August. Tyre is still in decent condition (didn't use it much over winter) but measures 28mm in reality. With very little chainstay clearance on my race bike there was some rubbing when out of the saddle.

I was afraid of changing it as like Eamonator I couldn't get it on originally and got someone else to do it. But bit the bullet last night as rubbing was driving me mad (dangerous too) and replaced it with a Schwalbe Pro One 23mm (which actually measures 25mm). Much easier to get it on this time as I'd purchased a tubeless pump in the meantime. I did find however that I needed a couple of goes and second time round the pressure in the chamber had to be over 200psi to get it on (run tyre at 80psi, pump goes to 240psi). So I put in on only to discover that direction was wrong and had to change it around with only needed one blast second time.

Unlike youteman's experience the tyre went on and off really quick (I hadn't put sealant in so no messiness) and in fact the turnaround was quite a bit quicker than it would have been with a tube in it. Moral I guess is that every rim/tyre combo behaves a little different. The Pro One 25mm then went on to a Velocity A23 rim which is definitely tighter but will inflate with a normal pump

harringtonp

Eamonnator wrote: »

The problem was with the rim tape. Like a f***ing eejit, I believed CRC, when they told me that the wheels were tubeless ready. Gary told me, that he tried to instal the wheels with the existing tape, without success. Gary, who is not a f***ing eejit, quickly realised where the problem was, he replaced the rim tape and hey presto, job done.

Yes "Tubeless Ready". The Carbonal and Velocity A23 rims I own were both described as tubeless came with non tubeless tape. Fortunately buying and fitting tubeless tape is easy. Pity no one here spotted this and suggested it to you. I was advised to put 2 layers on them

Eamonnator

^^^^^^^^

ian_rush wrote: »

Not sure if it is the case with Prime but with Wiggle's Cosine, "tubeless ready" wheelset it required removing the rim tape that came with the wheel and replacing it this stuff, http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/schwalbe-tubeless-rim-tape-10m-roll/rp-prod160519. My school boy error was initially trying to put the schwalbe tape over the pre-installed rim tape, which had similar symptoms to what you describe.

I'm afraid somebody did.

harringtonp

Bought

https://www.evanscycles.com/innovations-tubeless-tyre-repair-kit-EV150146

a while back. Need to use them yesterday and couldn't for the life of me pull the plastic apart to get a plug out. When I pulled hard the plug was splitting down the middle as it was stuck fast to the plastic, see attached image

Anybody had similar problems ?

Anybody have links to plugs without such usage problems ?

I got an L shaped tear in a Schwalbe Pro One 23mm which was only put on the bike late summer. Didn't hit anything, it just blew out.

Have been running a Pro One 25mm on the front since August last year and a Pro one 25mm rear tyre since last August 2017 too (across 2 wheels) without problems.

bingobars

First weeek on tubeless. Had an unusual start wondering if someone can explain.

3rd Spin Mid ride I noticed a sealant leak had happened but was not able to identify the source. Just that there was a leak. Rim and valve were clean and no visible tire damage.

https://imgur.com/a/xMEQgMN

The tire was still pumped and maybe lost a few psi but still perfectly rideable. Rode another day on them before pumping again.

Best explanation was that the bead did not bed properly and I hit a bump and the tire spewed a little. Bought the wheels with the tires fitted. Shipped to me with 15psi. I pumped them to 90psi and after 4 days (spew on day 2) they had 50psi which is par of the course on tubeless??

The back tire didn’t spew and went from 90-60psi in the same period.

Spew incident happened again yesterday. 140km ride. Went from 90-80psi I estimate. The only disruption was a 30s stop to evaluate and determine and again I could not pinpoint the source of the spew.

Pumped them to 130psi last night to see if I could get them to snap onto the rim in case they didn’t seat properly. They didn’t snap of bite. Left them down to 90psi and commuted to work no issue.

Very confused but happy overall

Anyone understand such behavior??

harringtonp

Perhaps something to do with seating alright. When inflating for the first time without sealant I noticed that you would get a seal at a certain pressure and think its fine. You them go to higher pressure and get a leak again. Keep pumping and this leak disappears at the higher pressure.

I put this down to tiny bead/rim gaps in the inflation process which held air up to a certain pressure but then leaked as the pressure increased. With continual pumping these gaps disappeared as the tyre reseated around that area.

This process may have happened on the road for you.

When putting a tyre on, I only added sealant after I was happy that there wasn't air coming out at pressures higher than I planned on using on the road.

brownian

harringtonp wrote: »

Bought

https://www.evanscycles.com/innovations-tubeless-tyre-repair-kit-EV150146

a while back. Need to use them yesterday and couldn't for the life of me pull the plastic apart to get a plug out. When I pulled hard the plug was splitting down the middle as it was stuck fast to the plastic, see attached image

Anybody had similar problems ?

Anybody have links to plugs without such usage problems ?

I got an L shaped tear in a Schwalbe Pro One 23mm which was only put on the bike late summer. Didn't hit anything, it just blew out.

Have been running a Pro One 25mm on the front since August last year and a Pro one 25mm rear tyre since last August 2017 too (across 2 wheels) without problems.

I suspect you just got a dud product. I got mine from Evans a good while back, and they behaved pretty much as expected, and sealed the hole at the time, with no further issues for months afterwards.

bingobars

Ok. So false sense of seated bead may be a trait. How about a drop from 90-60psi in 5 days?

harringtonp

bingobars wrote: »

Ok. So false sense of seated bead may be a trait. How about a drop from 90-60psi in 5 days?

That would be normal for me too. Used to this as I've had latex tubes before and always check pressure before rides anyway. The main thing for me is that once pumped before a spin the pressure holds well for the duration of the spin

fat bloke

I had zero interest in this thread until 5 minutes ago when I opened my bargain alerts ksyrium elites from Evans cycles and realised they're tubeless!!
Is it worth going with? Or do I ignore the sealant kit and instructions and put a tube in like a Neanderthal?
Presume if it all goes t1ts up on the Sally gap that I can put a tube in to get home as normal yeah?

brownian

fat bloke wrote: »

I had zero interest in this thread until 5 minutes ago when I opened my bargain alerts ksyrium elites from Evans cycles and realised they're tubeless!!
Is it worth going with? Or do I ignore the sealant kit and instructions and put a tube in like a Neanderthal?
Presume if it all goes t1ts up on the Sally gap that I can put a tube in to get home as normal yeah?

Yes. Some tubeless tyre/rim combinations can be tight, so be sure to have decent tyre levers and a little patience. And perhaps a small pliers to help you to undo the tubeless valve, which can be screwed in fairly tightly.

Otherwise, they're the same as normal clinchers, and can take a tube no hassle.

That said, I've never had a bad enough puncture on mine, that didn't just seal up and go.

fat bloke

brownian wrote: »

Yes. Some tubeless tyre/rim combinations can be tight, so be sure to have decent tyre levers and a little patience. And perhaps a small pliers to help you to undo the tubeless valve, which can be screwed in fairly tightly.

Otherwise, they're the same as normal clinchers, and can take a tube no hassle.

That said, I've never had a bad enough puncture on mine, that didn't just seal up and go.

Sound. Cheers man. And for tyre replacement then down the road, have you found yourself sticking to oem tyres to match the wheels? -Basically, is my wee store of bargain gp4000 II's picked up here and there rendered null and void now?! :pac:

brownian

No - so far, I've only run Schwalbe Ones on the wheels - I've not yet had to replace them with anything else. But if I was going tubed on the sae rims, then certainly my first stop would be GPs. Assuming your wheels came naked, you could of course just put GPs on them now.

That said, I'm running tubeless and am happy enough for day spins and the odd short audax. The only time I go tubed is for holidays, when I might be on tour in the middle of nowhere, and want the simplicity of old-fashioned puncture repair, like my granny taught me. I'd say, if you're interested at all, give them a go. The main challenge is getting them seated on the rim - see earlier posts in this thread, where I document my woes and how a local garage compressor sorted them out...as did that track pump with the reservoir thing.

harringtonp

brownian wrote: »

I suspect you just got a dud product. I got mine from Evans a good while back, and they behaved pretty much as expected, and sealed the hole at the time, with no further issues for months afterwards.

Evans Response

Hi, can we please ask you to send this photo into feedback@evanscycles.com with your order details and we can look at sending out another one for you, as the one in the picture you uploaded looks faulty.
4 hours ago
EvancCyclesKerryD

harringtonp

New one arrived and i made sure I could peel off the worms at either end. So at least I know that they are not now stuck fast. Hopefully will stay like this when they are stored away in the saddle bag.

Look to add a tire boot or 2 to my saddle bag. Has anyone a link to one they used with a tubeless setup that worked ?

harringtonp

On another note I put a new Schwalbe Pro One 23mm on a rim a few days ago but unlike the previous Pro One 23 I have not put any sealant in yet. It stays inflated for several hours but over a 10 hour period pressure would go from about 90 to 20.

Is this normal ? Are there always some small air leaks which sealant is needed to stop ?

I've previously always added sealant as soon as the tire is seated properly.

smacl

harringtonp wrote: »

Look to add a tire boot or 2 to my saddle bag. Has anyone a link to one they used with a tubeless setup that worked ?

Don't have tubeless but I've used this park tools one in the past and it got me home with no issues. Claims to be suitable for tubeless.

harringtonp

smacl wrote: »

Don't have tubeless but I've used this park tools one in the past and it got me home with no issues. Claims to be suitable for tubeless.

I know nothing about tire boots and this may be a silly question but do you generally stick them to the inside or outside of the tire ?

For tubeless you really want something that you can stick on the outside.

harringtonp

harringtonp wrote: »

On another note I put a new Schwalbe Pro One 23mm on a rim a few days ago but unlike the previous Pro One 23 I have not put any sealant in yet. It stays inflated for several hours but over a 10 hour period pressure would go from about 90 to 20.

Is this normal ? Are there always some small air leaks which sealant is needed to stop ?

I've previously always added sealant as soon as the tire is seated properly.

Any views on this guys ?