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What type of person works in recruitment?

lufties

By this I mean, I don't think I've met an honest recruiter with integrity. They all seem like used car sales people. When I think of all my peers and social circles throughout my life, I can't think of any that would fit the recruiter role.

They lie, bluff, and deceive to earn commission off the back of your hard labour. I'm thinking, how can they even sleep at night. Its baffling really.

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TG1

fritzelly wrote: »

Getting people on their books - could be some company looking for specific requirements or needing 10 medial jobs in the future
Numbers game at the end of the day

But unless it's for a very specific niche role, getting people on their books is not difficult. I dealt with an agency for a finance role recently and within 24 hours they had 7 potentials sent over to me.... They have candidate pools for any normal sort of function/role already, as they build them up through previous roles.

For example, I got one job as I had applied for a job, lost out after round 2, then a week later another company contacted the agency about a similar role , and the agency rang to ask if they could put me forward. That's how candidates pools are built as far as I'm aware.

I just have never come across this "sociopath recruitment agent" you are all talking about in years of dealing with them as both a client and a job applicant so am genuinely confused as to where all the bad feeling towards them comes from!

fritzelly

Nothing stopping them contacting people who may already be employed to say do you fancy this job.
If you have a stock of a 1000 qualified people on your books and a company comes looking to you to fill a position you can just say ohh yeah I've got a 100 suitable guys on the books. Not even bothering to tell the employer you don't know what they are doing or when the last time you had contact with them
They could be earning a very pretty penny for a well qualified job, as for the more menial jobs - well they still earn a nice commission.

TG1

fritzelly wrote: »

Nothing stopping them contacting people who may already be employed to say do you fancy this job.
If you have a stock of a 1000 qualified people on your books and a company comes looking to you to fill a position you can just say ohh yeah I've got a 100 suitable guys on the books. Not even bothering to tell the employer you don't know what they are doing or when the last time you had contact with them
They could be earning a very pretty penny for a well qualified job, as for the more menial jobs - well they still earn a nice commission.

But if you're on the books you still won't be sent to a client until they have contacted you and got your permission to send over your details to the client. So in my example above within 24 hours they had contacted and received permission to send 7 candidates on.

Agencies are not struggling for candidates, they are struggling for clients as the fees they charge companies are extortionate, so I don't understand where this perception of them advertising jobs that don't exist comes from.

I would imagine actually a lot of it comes from companies themselves. Off the top of my head I can think of two occasions in the last year where I reached out to agencies, only to have management do a rethink half way through the process and decide the vacancy doesn't need filling, or change the role dramatically. I then had to pull the role with an agency, who subsequently had to go back to the candidates and say that the role was gone.

That happens more than you would like to think...

fritzelly

TG1 wrote: »

But if you're on the books you still won't be sent to a client until they have contacted you and got your permission to send over your details to the client. So in my example above within 24 hours they had contacted and received permission to send 7 candidates on.

Call 20+ candidates on their books to say are you interested in this job - whats that, an hours work for someone?

TG1

fritzelly wrote: »

Call 20+ candidates on their books to say are you interested in this job - whats that, an hours work for someone?

My point is that they have candidates lining themselves up without the need to resort to posting fake job adverts in slots that could be earning them revenue.

Also, any time I've been contacted by an agency as a candidate I've spent at least 20 minutes on the phone to them sussing out the role and having them sussing me and my experience, so more like 3 - 4 hours work, and keep in mind that is potentially 3 - 4 hours generating no revenue for their employer if the client goes a different route.

I don't think they have it easy at all, I could branch into it from my career path and I wouldn't for all the money in the world. It's an awful job from what I can see.

Eoin

TG1 wrote: »

Any job I've applied for through an agency has been a real job. Where are these fake jobs being advertised?

I've seen some jobs that have already been filled but still appear active, but that's about it. Certainly don't agree with most the hyperbole on this thread anyway. I think people grossly misunderstand their relationship as a candidate with a recruiter.

beauf

I'd be surprised if anyone thinks they are anything other than a number to an agency.

Eoin

beauf wrote: »

I'd be surprised if anyone thinks they are anything other than a number to an agency.

I'm not sure; I genuinely think some people think the recruiter's role is to find them a job.

TG1

Eoin wrote: »

I'm not sure; I genuinely think some people think the recruiter's role is to find them a job.

I agree, I think a huge part of why people have a certain view of recruiters is that they don't accept that the recruiter doesn't get commission for placing them, they get commission for placing a candidate.
In house HR (the ones that pay recruiters fees) get frustrated if recruiters continuously send unsuitable candidates. If you are not the most suitable candidate the recruiter has on their books, they won't be pushing you, end of.
It's not because they are sociopaths or they hate you and want to ruin your life, it's because they want to get paid. Just like everyone else in the workforce!

beauf

None of that explains the stupid things a lot of them do.

Berserker

TG1 wrote: »

But if you're on the books you still won't be sent to a client until they have contacted you and got your permission to send over your details to the client.

Not true for all of them. A company I worked for years ago, my first employer to be exact, re-branded a few years ago. They were looking to hire experienced people, so they decided to use an agency. The agency sent over my c.v. to them, unbeknown to me. The hiring manager was my old boss, so he dropped me a line to check if I was available, so they were found out.

fritzelly

TG1 wrote: »

I agree, I think a huge part of why people have a certain view of recruiters is that they don't accept that the recruiter doesn't get commission for placing them, they get commission for placing a candidate

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that you get commission for proposing/putting forward anyone - why would anyone think that?!?!

skallywag

It's a mixed bag.

I've encountered many which are very poor. On the other hand I have also come across those who are excellent, both from the perspective of strengthening my own team and also being on the look out for positions that I myself may be interested in.

It's definitely worth keeping a relationship alive with those who are skilled in this area and with whom one has a strong relationship. There are one or two who come to mind who I have been dealing with for many years, and would always be my first port of call.

LollipopJimmy

I have to find threads like this quite funny. I work in recruitment, commission isn't really a driver, I have targets and kpi's like everybody else but anybody gets a fair crack of the whip.

I've had candidates walk in with coke on their nose, candidates who turn up in jeans to discuss senior roles, candidates who just didn't bother turning up and then get miffed when I won't reschedule (I will always reschedule if a candidate contacts me beforehand) Treat me with respect and you will get the same back. But, with most jobs there will be at least 2 or 3 people who I need to let down. In fairness, i always give honest feedback and it seems to be appreciated.
Last Friday I had sent a regret email to somebody who had applied for a role in Limerick, living in West Kerry and not willing to relocate, not really that suitable on paper either, stronger candidates living in the territory and he tore me apart then tagged me on Linkedin in a rant about recruiters.
My advice? Tell the recruiter at the start what you expect from them and hold them accountable.

I actually took a move from in house recruitment to agency, location and other terms suited me. I've seen it All at this stage

lufties

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I have to find threads like this quite funny. I work in recruitment, commission isn't really a driver, I have targets and kpi's like everybody else but anybody gets a fair crack of the whip.

I've had candidates walk in with coke on their nose, candidates who turn up in jeans to discuss senior roles, candidates who just didn't bother turning up and then get miffed when I won't reschedule (I will always reschedule if a candidate contacts me beforehand) Treat me with respect and you will get the same back. But, with most jobs there will be at least 2 or 3 people who I need to let down. In fairness, i always give honest feedback and it seems to be appreciated.
Last Friday I had sent a regret email to somebody who had applied for a role in Limerick, living in West Kerry and not willing to relocate, not really that suitable on paper either, stronger candidates living in the territory and he tore me apart then tagged me on Linkedin in a rant about recruiters.
My advice? Tell the recruiter at the start what you expect from them and hold them accountable.

I actually took a move from in house recruitment to agency, location and other terms suited me. I've seen it All at this stage

Ok, but how about this.

I recently was told by a recruiter in England (I know, I know..The Brits!!) about a contract job in scandinavia, He sold me the job on a fixed salary based on a weekly shift pattern of 5 on 2 off. On arrival the problems became evident. Weeks in a hotel waiting on an I.D pass (for the job). No replies to emails, arrogant answers on the phone. Being bull****ted to constantly.
I called someone in payroll and she was lovely, and basically told me her colleagues do not care. She referred to them as Teflon shoulders, and said its about bums on seats. If candidates unknowingly walk into a room with a bomb in it, its tough titty.
The problem is that agencies lie, deceive, and are generally sociopathic. I personally have never showed up to a job in jeans, drunk, or on coke. I am quite flexible, but agencies just lie and manipulate constantly.

beauf

What has that got to do with recruitment or an agency?

lufties

beauf wrote: »

What has that got to do with recruitment or an agency?

What do you mean? The recruiter lied to get me in the job, and takes no responsibility.

beauf

What did they lie about?

If a company ends up being a disaster that's hardly something the agency will know or be responsible for unless they had previous experience of poor feedback and ignored it.

Companies being poorly prepared for someone joining is hardly unusual.

lufties

beauf wrote: »

What did they lie about?

If a company ends up being a disaster that's hardly something the agency will know or be responsible for unless they had previous experience of poor feedback and ignored it.

Companies being poorly prepared for someone joining is hardly unusual.

Nothing to do with the company. They sold me the job as a certain salary based on a particular shift pattern. This was lies.

beauf

You didn't mention that in your first comment. You were on about IDs not being ready.

Most us will have experienced used car sales tricks from many agencies and recruiters.

lufties

beauf wrote: »

You didn't mention that in your first comment. You were on about IDs not being ready.

Most us will have experienced used car sales tricks from many agencies and recruiters.

Don't know how they sleep at night. My point is this is common practice, lies and manipulation to get bums on seats.

lufties

Mongfinder General wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

Don't know how they sleep at night. My point is this is common practice, lies and manipulation to get bums on seats.

Rat bastards and are merely doing the dirty work for lazy assholes in HR departments in companies up and down the country.

couldn't agree more. Pure Pondlife.

[Deleted User]

It's what happens when people get crappy base salaries and need commission to get a decent wage, quality suffers and it's the same in a lot of jobs like this.

What annoys me the most is that recruiters have called me up several times to ask me if I'd be interested in a job that I'm already working in, just shows they couldn't even be bothered to read my CV, then my colleagues get a call, it's all rather funny and sad at the same time taking the p1ss out of lazy recruiters in work with your colleagues.

Another thing that bugs me is they won't tell you the company that you're applying to, hello idiot, I'm not going to apply for a job if I don't know who it is.

The other thing that annoys me is companies employing 3rd party HR departments who do not even work for the company, so you really don't know who anyone is any more HR are also evil lol.

LollipopJimmy

lufties wrote: »

I did confirm the details, but I was lied to by the agency. How many different ways do you want me to say? Perhaps in a different language might help?

Who did you confirm details with?
So you confirmed the details before you started yet they've not been followed through upon? We're these details not in the contract or letter of offer from the employer?
Recruiters make an introduction between candidates and companies, any offer will come from the recruiter and then be followed up upon by the company with offer letter and contract.

[Deleted User]

A recruitment company managing director was on the me recently about an IT role. Said no thanks, wrong field, I'm in X field.
She said no bother how about this other role? I blocked her, same bloody field

lufties

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

I did confirm the details, but I was lied to by the agency. How many different ways do you want me to say? Perhaps in a different language might help?

Who did you confirm details with?
So you confirmed the details before you started yet they've not been followed through upon? We're these details not in the contract or letter of offer from the employer?
Recruiters make an introduction between candidates and companies, any offer will come from the recruiter and then be followed up upon by the company with offer letter and contract.

It doesn't matter, because I left after 3 weeks. I had to fight tooth and nail to get paid. Calling up every day.

LollipopJimmy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's what happens when people get crappy base salaries and need commission to get a decent wage, quality suffers and it's the same in a lot of jobs like this.

What annoys me the most is that recruiters have called me up several times to ask me if I'd be interested in a job that I'm already working in, just shows they couldn't even be bothered to read my CV, then my colleagues get a call, it's all rather funny and sad at the same time taking the p1ss out of lazy recruiters in work with your colleagues.

Another thing that bugs me is they won't tell you the company that you're applying to, hello idiot, I'm not going to apply for a job if I don't know who it is.

The other thing that annoys me is companies employing 3rd party HR departments who do not even work for the company, so you really don't know who anyone is any more HR are also evil lol.

A lot of assumptions there. While I work to Kpi's there isn't a whole lot of commission involved and I earn a fairly decent amount. I have done both in house and agency so have seen a lot

Recruiters ringing about a job you're in Is madness alright, wouldn't happen in my company. We're well known, well respected within the niche industry we're in. Companies use us because the time it saves screening, advertising and reviewing cv's and they also know thisisgge quickest route to finding a suitable candidate. My network within the industry I work is huge and that's what these companies are paying massive fees for.

We also do all background checks and psychometric testing if needed. Recruiters will always be cagey about discussing who the client is because it really does need to remain confidential most of the time and they won't disclose until the candidate shows genuine interest, I get this is a bit of a catch22.

LollipopJimmy

lufties wrote: »

It doesn't matter, because I left after 3 weeks. I had to fight tooth and nail to get paid. Calling up every day.

Get paid from the company? Surely the employer here is the issue then rather than the recruiter.

TG1

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Recruiters will always be cagey about discussing who the client is because it really does need to remain confidential most of the time and they won't disclose until the candidate shows genuine interest, I get this is a bit of a catch22.

Yep, lazy "human remains" person here, often roles that go to agencies are confidential and they are asked not to discuss the company until someone has shown an interest in the role and the CV has been screened by the internal HR Dept as well as the agency.

Its Totally normal practice, and doesn't mean the agency or the company are up to anything untoward. I've gone to agencies for extremely high level roles before we have even announced someone is leaving as the ramifications of announcing a departure without the
reassurance that we had a replacement could be huge so confidentiality is a must for any agency.

pauliebdub

The used car salesman analogy is fairly accurate. I would describe the ones that I know as being great salespeople and networkers, very driven and work long hours and earn decent comission but not very academic.