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Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

Roger_007

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/major-incident-amesbury-wiltshire-man-woman-unknown-substance-police-sergei-skripal-salisbury-a8430066.html
Two more victims of "an unknown substance" in Wiltshire.
What's going on in Wiltshire?
Have the Russians struck again?
Are there any diplomats left to expel?

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Mrcaramelchoc

Did i leave the iron on?

Fr_Dougal

Sounds like they were junkies who found discarded poison from the Russian’s.

Hande hoche!

Might be ectoplasm. Speedy recovery to the victims.

mcmoustache

BBC confirms it now:

this is a link to the bbc with very little information other than the fact that it was the same stuff as before

BorneTobyWilde

Putin is untouchable in reality. He can do what he likes.

mcmoustache

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Putin is untouchable in reality. He can do what he likes.

We don't know for sure that it's Russian related again. It could be just two randomers who put the wrong capsule into their morning multi-vitamin drink.

And before I forget:

PAGING THE USUAL SUSPECTS TO AFTER HOURS.

THE USUAL SUSPECTS TO AFTER HOURS, PLEASE. MOTHER RUSSIA NEEDS YOU EVEN THOUGH RUSSIA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

mcmoustache

The victims have been named. They're not Russian by the sounds of it so this case is weird. I'll hold off on blaming Russians for the time being.

banie01

It is highly suspicious that in the period since the Skripal poisoning in March, that 2 further people have been struck down by the same nerve agent.
Especially given that according to the Public Health advice offered, that washing clothes and wiping down with baby wipes would seem to imply that Novichok is water soluble that a viable dose could not or at least should not survive in the environment.

With the nearness of Portland Down to the area, and it being the UK's primary chemical weapons research facility, it would point in my mind to either a break in the chain of custody of the UK evidence?
Or that someone in the UK Chemical weapons agency may be gone rogue and using their knowledge to play god.
In any event it manages to make the UK response to the March incident look inept.
And it is fuel to the fire for Russia's denials.

Dr. Bre

Roger_007 wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/major-incident-amesbury-wiltshire-man-woman-unknown-substance-police-sergei-skripal-salisbury-a8430066.html
Two more victims of "an unknown substance" in Wiltshire.
What's going on in Wiltshire?
Have the Russians struck again?
Are there any diplomats left to expel?

It prob wasn’t the russians last time either

mcmoustache

I'm leaning towards poor cleanup or some other cockup with this one.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Russian World Cup must be going well.

BorneTobyWilde

mcmoustache wrote: »

The victims have been named. They're not Russian by the sounds of it so this case is weird. I'll hold off on blaming Russians for the time being.

Maybe they found what all those 100's on cops could not find in their search, opened it and BOOM!

mcmoustache

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Maybe they found what all those 100's on cops could not find in their search, opened it and BOOM!

As unlikely as it sounds, it could well be. Russians definitely carried out the last one but this one lacks motive. That being said, it's early days yet so I'm very open to correction as new facts emerge.

devnull

banie01 wrote: »

In any event it manages to make the UK response to the March incident look inept. And it is fuel to the fire for Russia's denials.

I know that, you know that and no doubt the Russians do too.....

mcmoustache wrote: »

As unlikely as it sounds, it could well be. Russians definitely carried out the last one but this one lacks motive. That being said, it's early days yet so I'm very open to correction as new facts emerge.

See the other post I quoted above....

badabing106

mcmoustache wrote: »

As unlikely as it sounds, it could well be. Russians definitely carried out the last one but this one lacks motive. That being said, it's early days yet so I'm very open to correction as new facts emerge.

Oh come off it. Even the daily mail users know not to link it with Russia

Hande hoche!

Now that the OPCW can assign blame, will there be a culprit this time?

seamus

banie01 wrote: »

And it is fuel to the fire for Russia's denials.

Which means it's definitely a Russian plot to draw the scent away from them.

No, seriously, this is a bit weird. I too would be inclined to go with the "accidental" explanation given above, but that raises more questions again; why would proper agents leave the nerve agent in the open where it could be accidentally found?

Could the Skripal poisoning have been an accident too, just with incredibly coincidental victims?

mcmoustache

devnull wrote: »

I know that, you know that and no doubt the Russians do too.....

See the other post I quoted above....

That's a motive and wouldn't be too surprising. I's just that the last one was obviously Russia whereas this one has other possibilities.

mcmoustache

badabing106 wrote: »

Oh come off it. Even the daily mail users know not to link it with Russia

Which one? This one? Or the last one where former Russian spies were killed by a method typically used by Russians after Putin threatened ex spies with poison on national tv?

the_syco

mcmoustache wrote: »

I'm leaning towards poor cleanup or some other cockup with this one.

Either that, or a test to target individuals in a large congregation?

wexie

Maybe it was the Russians but they choose 2 completely random people so they can point at them and say 'see!! we've been saying it all along, wasn't us!'

Franz Von Peppercorn

mcmoustache wrote: »

Which one? This one? Or the last one where former Russian spies were killed by a method typically used by Russians after Putin threatened ex spies with poison on national tv?

They’ve been fierce quiet though.

mcmoustache

seamus wrote: »

Which means it's definitely a Russian plot to draw the scent away from them.

No, seriously, this is a bit weird. I too would be inclined to go with the "accidental" explanation given above, but that raises more questions again; why would proper agents leave the nerve agent in the open where it could be accidentally found?

Could the Skripal poisoning have been an accident too, just with incredibly coincidental victims?

The agents who performed the litvinenko poisoning were sloppy as hell. Left a trail all over london and hamburg. I don't doubt that the skripals were the target last time but it's not inconceivable that the assassins were sloppy this time too.

mcmoustache

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

They’ve been fierce quiet though.

I would be too if I was under a state's protection.

mcmoustache

the_syco wrote: »

Either that, or a test to target individuals in a large congregation?

wexie wrote: »

Maybe it was the Russians but they choose 2 completely random people so they can point at them and say 'see!! we've been saying it all along, wasn't us!'

None of these ideas are out of the question but they're only speculation, if reasonable speculation at this point.

Right now, I suspect that it's just a cock up but I'm coming at that conclusion from a state of ignorance right now. As more information comes in, I'll probably change my mind.

An interesting read is the Litvinenko poisoning. The assassins in that case were fairly sloppy and made a lot of mistakes.

Wiki has a summary and there's a verbose report as well as other articles tracing the timeline.

Roger_007

The British went very quiet on the Skripal cases once the two victims had recovered. It suggests to me that they found out from the Skripals that they had been barking up the wrong tree and in order to avoid huge embarrassment on the world stage they thought it better to say nothing more and hope the story would fade away.
The story the British put out was that it could only have been Russian state actors who attacked the Skripals because of the nature of the substance used. Are they going to persist with that explanation in the latest case.
As I asked in my opening post, will there be more action taken against Russia and diplomats expelled? If not, then they owe the world an apology.

devnull

Roger_007 wrote: »

The British went very quiet on the Skripal cases once the two victims had recovered. It suggests to me that they found out from the Skripals that they had been barking up the wrong tree and in order to avoid huge embarrassment on the world stage they thought it better to say nothing more and hope the story would fade away.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me - not sure what more can be said onthe matter truth be told, it's been pretty much exhausted and if they are being given new identities then the government are hardly going to be shouting about what is happening with them.

Franz Von Peppercorn

devnull wrote: »

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me - not sure what more can be said onthe matter truth be told, it's been pretty much exhausted and if they are being given new identities then the government are hardly going to be shouting about what is happening with them.

Of course is a conspiracy theory. So is the Russians did it theory. So is the Russians caused trump and Brexit theory.

These are all conspiracies. Guess what, governments and secret agencies conspire.

thomil

It's an intriguing one alright, especially since the two victims don't seem to have any relevance whatsoever. What I find more interesting however ist the location, Amesbury.

The town might sound unassuming, however there's an airfield on the southern edge of town, Boscombe Down. This airfield is home to the RAF's Air Warfare Centre, the Empire Test Pilot School, and a number of specialised test, research, and aircraft recovery outfits. It is also a possible QRA site. All of this would be of huge interest to a number of foreign intelligence outfits, including the FSB. In my eyes, it is not impossible that the two were "sources" that were about to be uncovered, and therefore had to be neutralised. That is all speculation of course, but it seems to be the only variety that would make sense, since Novichok usually can't just be found on the roadside.

devnull

thomil wrote: »

It's an intriguing one alright, especially since the two victims don't seem to have any relevance whatsoever. What I find more interesting however ist the location, Amesbury.

The town might sound unassuming, however there's an airfield on the southern edge of town, Boscombe Down. This airfield is home to the RAF's Air Warfare Centre, the Empire Test Pilot School, and a number of specialised test, research, and aircraft recovery outfits. It is also a possible QRA site. All of this would be of huge interest to a number of foreign intelligence outfits, including the FSB. In my eyes, it is not impossible that the two were "sources" that were about to be uncovered, and therefore had to be neutralised. That is all speculation of course, but it seems to be the only variety that would make sense, since Novichok usually can't just be found on the roadside.

All of which would suggest that it would be beneficial for the Russians to plant something there because it would help their cause.