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Child Item

Smear Test Scandal

Sam Quentin

So are we about to have another enquiry?
It's already taking up valuable time in the Dail,.. with the 'opposition' parties shouting and blaming everyone but themselves!? When at the end of the day nobody as such is to blame, nothing is fool proof.. Cant we just be glad that the smear tests globally have saved millions of lives.....

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iamwhoiam

Malayalam wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/terminallyill-emma-mhic-mhathna-settles-case-against-hse-and-us-laboratory-for-75m-37063844.html

I am very glad for her. Good woman. At least she won't have to worry about the children not getting help now as they grow up.

Absolutely delighted for Emma and her family

Discodog

Roger_007 wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that this award is massively out of proportion. If this is now the benchmark award for errors made in mass screening tests then we are going down a dangerous road. First, the smear test cases will have to be settled and then as sure as night follows day, all errors made in other screening programs such as Breast Check and the bowel cancer check, will have to be settled in the same way.
This is utter madness. No mass screening regime is 100% error-free. This will eventually cost us billions and reduce the money available to the rest of the health service.
I know my opinion won't be popular.

Surely it's for the cover up, not the error in result.

SEPT 23 1989

Roger_007 wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that this award is massively out of proportion. If this is now the benchmark award for errors made in mass screening tests then we are going down a dangerous road. First, the smear test cases will have to be settled and then as sure as night follows day, all errors made in other screening programs such as Breast Check and the bowel cancer check, will have to be settled in the same way.
This is utter madness. No mass screening regime is 100% error-free. This will eventually cost us billions and reduce the money available to the rest of the health service.
I know my opinion won't be popular.

You are dying looking at your children knowing that you will never watch them grow up

How much would you pay to make that nightmare you can't wake up from go away?

Whatever any of these women want they get as far as I am concerned

iamwhoiam

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

You are dying looking at your children knowing that you will never watch them grow up

How much would you pay to make that nightmare you can't wake up from go away?

Whatever any of these women want they get as far as I am concerned

And as Emma said her children would much prefer to have a mother and no money . At least she can know her children will have a fund to help them in time

erica74

I feel this is very important to highlight

Mr Treacy said the admission of liability from Quest related to the misreading of slides. He said Ms Mhic Mhathúna had a number of cervical smears in 2010, 2011 and 2013. The three tests of 2010, 2011 and 2013 were incorrectly reported. The 2011 result, he said, was a false negative and the 2010 and 2013 slides were both misread and showed negative.

The effect of the results on the 2010 and 2013 slides was that if read correctly Ms Mhic Mhathúna should have got a mandatory colposcopy.

3 smears. One a false negative and the other 2 misread.

Uriel.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

You are dying looking at your children knowing that you will never watch them grow up

How much would you pay to make that nightmare you can't wake up from go away?

Whatever any of these women want they get as far as I am concerned

So the State should pay out for every terminal cancer diagnosis then? Is that what you are saying? It's fine if you are, but it's important to be clear.

Uriel.

Discodog wrote: »

Surely it's for the cover up, not the error in result.

Which "cover up"?

gctest50

Roger_007 wrote: »

......................This will eventually cost us billions and reduce the money available to the rest of the health service.
I know my opinion won't be popular.

They're well capable of that even before this :

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/revealed-500m-bill-for-hospital-negligence-451883.html

Settlement and compensation payouts by the State to victims of “negligence, incompetence, and neglect” in Irish hospitals have totalled almost €500m since 2011, the Irish Examiner can reveal.

ChikiChiki

Roger_007 wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that this award is massively out of proportion. If this is now the benchmark award for errors made in mass screening tests then we are going down a dangerous road. First, the smear test cases will have to be settled and then as sure as night follows day, all errors made in other screening programs such as Breast Check and the bowel cancer check, will have to be settled in the same way.
This is utter madness. No mass screening regime is 100% error-free. This will eventually cost us billions and reduce the money available to the rest of the health service.
I know my opinion won't be popular.

Not enough, you cannot put a price on life. At least her kids will be looked after.

suicide_circus

Can see myself going off the rails on those millions if I were her kid

Graces7

Roger_007 wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that this award is massively out of proportion. If this is now the benchmark award for errors made in mass screening tests then we are going down a dangerous road. First, the smear test cases will have to be settled and then as sure as night follows day, all errors made in other screening programs such as Breast Check and the bowel cancer check, will have to be settled in the same way.
This is utter madness. No mass screening regime is 100% error-free. This will eventually cost us billions and reduce the money available to the rest of the health service.
I know my opinion won't be popular.

You need to address your concerns to the right place which is not at the door of the victims but with the seemingly growing deaths and disabiliies cause by sheer incompetence by HSE .

Several more awards this week.

erica74

Another settlement today - €2 million to a lady who has maintained her anonymity.

jmayo

Uriel. wrote: »

So the State should pay out for every terminal cancer diagnosis then? Is that what you are saying? It's fine if you are, but it's important to be clear.

Yeah, but in this case the screening program was not up to standard, and experts resigned in protest when the system was being put into operation.
And then when it was found out it was making serious cockups the HSE tried to stage manage the release and non release of information to the victims i.e THE FOOKING COVERUP.
Also even after story broke they were not releasing information to victims.

Uriel. wrote: »

Which "cover up"?

See above.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Can see myself going off the rails on those millions if I were her kid

She has 5 children, 4 boys and a girl.
Only one of the children, the girl, at the moment is anywhere near finishing secondary school.

A lot of the money is going to be used to fund their envisaged education.
College costs also need to be factored into it.

They are not going to be handed wads of cash. :rolleyes:

Uriel.

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah, but in this case the screening program was not up to standard, and experts resigned in protest when the system was being put into operation.
And then when it was found out it was making serious cockups the HSE tried to stage manage the release and non release of information to the victims i.e THE FOOKING COVERUP.
Also even after story broke they were not releasing information to victims.

See above.

She has 5 children, 4 boys and a girl.
Only one of the children, the girl, at the moment is anywhere near finishing secondary school.

A lot of the money is going to be used to fund their envisaged education.
College costs also need to be factored into it.

They are not going to be handed wads of cash. :rolleyes:

Where is this the evidence that the programme wasn't up to standard? I haven't seen anything confirming that. So far the settlements that have been made public highlight the only fault on the State being the failure to notify women of the results of the clinical audit.

iamwhoiam

Uriel. wrote: »

Where is this the evidence that the programme wasn't up to standard? I haven't seen anything confirming that. So far the settlements that have been made public highlight the only fault on the State being the failure to notify women of the results of the clinical audit.

Vicky Phelen sued the US company Quest who was responsible for her false negative test . And won. Tgey apparently used only one tester on each smear test where others use a second tester to double check .

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cervical-smear-contract-to-us-labs-awarded-for-cheapest-price-documents-suggest-841141.html

Uriel.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Vicky Phelen sued the US company Quest who was responsible for her false negative test . And won

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cervical-smear-contract-to-us-labs-awarded-for-cheapest-price-documents-suggest-841141.html

And?

[Deleted User]

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Vicky Phelen sued the US company who was responsible for her false negative test . And won

This is where it all gets complicated I suppose.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/0425/957122-vicky-phelan/

The case was "settled without admission of liability".

Uriel.

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

This is where it all gets complicated I suppose.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/0425/957122-vicky-phelan/

The case was "settled without admission of liability".

and even if they accepted liability, that doesn't confirm, suggest or otherwise that the Screening Programme was not up to Standard

iamwhoiam

Uriel. wrote: »

And?

And so the settlements were not just for a cover up they were for test company incompetence . They made a mistake in her testing and so Vicky won her case

Uriel.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And so the settlements were not just for a cover up they were for test company incompetence . They made a mistake in her testing and so Vicky won her case

The settlements weren't for a cover up because no cover up has been proved. Secondly, whether a mistake was made or not it doesn't confirm the programme (or indeed an individual lab) was not up to standard.

iamwhoiam

Uriel. wrote: »

The settlements weren't for a cover up because no cover up has been proved. Secondly, whether a mistake was made or not it doesn't confirm the programme (or indeed an individual lab) was not up to standard.

No I guess it doesn't prove it . But the large settlement was an indication of it in my opinion
Either way Vicky , Emma and many others have my full support and respect

Uriel.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

No I guess it doesn't prove it . But the large settlement was an indication of it in my opinion
Either way Vicky , Emma and many others have my full support and respect

How does it?

And absolutely no one is saying anything about supporting or not supporting the women involved.

jmayo

Uriel. wrote: »

Where is this the evidence that the programme wasn't up to standard? I haven't seen anything confirming that. So far the settlements that have been made public highlight the only fault on the State being the failure to notify women of the results of the clinical audit.

Well then why did the likes of Dr Gibbons, chair of the cytology/histology group within the quality assurance committee of the National Cervical Screening Programme, resign in protest at the proposed system when it was being setup ?

Uriel. wrote: »

The settlements weren't for a cover up because no cover up has been proved. Secondly, whether a mistake was made or not it doesn't confirm the programme (or indeed an individual lab) was not up to standard.

See referenced section of memo

Cervical Check - Cervical Cancer Clinical Audit Process
Briefing Note
March 2016
....

Next Steps
Pause all letters

Await advice of solicitors

Decide on the order and volume of dispatch to mitigate any potential risks

continue to prepare reactive communications response for a media headline that 'screening did not diagnose my cancer'

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/pause-all-letters-cervicalcheck-briefing-memo-to-hse-1.3490887

Now you of course will claim that was not a cover up but it was trying to manage the dissemination of information to affected parties (i.e. victims) so that the "cervical check system" was not compromised.

Now it wasn't outright lying and withholding information ala your true cover up, but it was damn well a cover up of sorts where they were withholding information from women that were probably terminally ill.

Uriel.

jmayo wrote: »

Well then why did the likes of Dr Gibbons, chair of the cytology/histology group within the quality assurance committee of the National Cervical Screening Programme, resign in protest at the proposed system when it was being setup ?

See referenced section of memo

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/pause-all-letters-cervicalcheck-briefing-memo-to-hse-1.3490887

Now you of course will claim that was not a cover up but it was trying to manage the dissemination of information to affected parties (i.e. victims) so that the "cervical check system" was not compromised.

Now it wasn't outright lying and withholding information ala your true cover up, but it was damn well a cover up of sorts where they were withholding information from women that were probably terminally ill.

He resigned because he was in disagreement with the then proposed approach is my understanding. Professional disagreements happen all the time. It doesn't mean though that the programme failed to reach standards one would expect. The Scally Inquiry however will provide some answers. I'm going to wait until that report before starting to jump to conclusions and conspiracy theories. The screening programme is a vital women's health initiative and I think generally we all need to be very careful without our facts and our conclusions and not be conflating and jumping to conclusions based on isolated and other issues.

Did you watch and/or read the evidence but to the public accounts committee in relation to the Memos? A very plausible position was put across as to the content of that memo and what your quoted piece referred to. I don't believe their was a cover up and I've seen zero evidence of that. What I have seen is bureaucracy at its worst though which greatly contributed to the delay in informing the women of their audit results. However all of the evidence that I've seen shows that very active conversations were being had about how to inform women, in an informed way without also undermining the importance of the Screening Programme. Those conversations took too long and nobody appears to have had defined responsibility for ensuring an outcome.

If you have some other evidence that I haven't seen or I've missed then throw it up here and we can discuss it.

EmptyTree

News just breaking on RTE lunchtime news, Emma Mhic Mhathúna passed away this morning.

Feel very sad for her family.

RIP.

RabbleRouser2k

EmptyTree wrote: »

News just breaking on RTE lunchtime news, Emma Mhic Mhathúna passed away this morning.

Feel very sad for her family.

RIP.

Yeah, saw that this evening-an early death that should never have happened.

Condolences to her family. RIP.

zell12

EmptyTree wrote: »

News just breaking on RTE lunchtime news, Emma Mhic Mhathúna passed away this morning.
Feel very sad for her family.
RIP.

Uafásach ar fad. Only 37.

Ken.

A link to the above
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1007/1001517-emma-mhic-mhathuna/

Heads should fücking roll over this.

suicide_circus

Putinbot wrote: »

A link to the above
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1007/1001517-emma-mhic-mhathuna/

Heads should fücking roll over this.

not a single head will roll, we don't do consequences in Ireland

Strazdas

That is so sad

Emma was a wonderful woman and an inspiration, incredibly strong.

RIP