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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

Please ensure that you are familiar with the charter before posting.

Thanks.

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Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

You have asserted far too much to my assesment of the bill. I never even went close to stating that.
Its not really a good way or anyway to start a discussion.

Your assessment of the bill is that is is possible the best day in his presidency.

You claimed that the passing of the bill was a huge success.

It appears, and I have given you plenty of opportunity to point out why they are great, that you are judging the level of success based on nothing more than the bill being passed. That's it. No details, no understanding of the issue, no understanding of how it will help.

If Trump is involved it must be good because Trump. That appears to be your sole criteria.

Professor Moriarty

RIGOLO wrote: »

And the debt level continues on the trend also set by Obama.
Numbers are my forte , and anyone can twist a number to their own agenda. Are we talking dollar debt increase or percentage debt increase.
Much of the numbers people are using are coming out of the CBO , again using their numbers to set their agenda.
It reminds me of how the blind who were leading the blind back in Ireland in Celtic tiger days and everyone was using the ESRI numbers to say things were grand.
Do the rules allow a person to play both games , the short and the long, after all diffenrent elements of society move at different paces, some items play out short term and some play out on a longer term.
And yes long term, you have your projections , I have mine.
Considering Im old enough to have lived thru a number of trends and cycles , and survived most by trusting my own instinct and number crunching, im content to follow the same instinct on this one, long term.
Neither of us will have a definitive answer today , tomorrow or next month, we will have some but its going to take more time for the full reveal. For now just make your pension decisions , cash, equities, us , emerging, bonds etc

Tell me, what happens when you decrease taxes and increase spending?

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

No , what that is , is what you have posted.
That is your summary of my position.
Its a free forum .
But lets be clear this is your summary of my position.

I think there is far too much of that in peoples responses to posts in general.
Posters frequently start a response with a 'so to summarise your position' , inevitably they get the summary wrong and then it just becomes a lingusitic debate of who summarised whos post correctly or incorrectly.

People would be far better off to do less summaries of other posts or attitudes. It just leads to clogging up the airwaves.

So what is your position, I will happily be corrected. If I misinterpreted you then I apologise.

everlast75

RIGOLO wrote: »

And the debt level continues on the trend also set by Obama.
Numbers are my forte , and anyone can twist a number to their own agenda. Are we talking dollar debt increase or percentage debt increase.
Much of the numbers people are using are coming out of the CBO , again using their numbers to set their agenda.
It reminds me of how the blind who were leading the blind back in Ireland in Celtic tiger days and everyone was using the ESRI numbers to say things were grand.
Do the rules allow a person to play both games , the short and the long, after all diffenrent elements of society move at different paces, some items play out short term and some play out on a longer term.
And yes long term, you have your projections , I have mine.
Considering Im old enough to have lived thru a number of trends and cycles , and survived most by trusting my own instinct and number crunching, im content to follow the same instinct on this one, long term.
Neither of us will have a definitive answer today , tomorrow or next month, we will have some but its going to take more time for the full reveal. For now just make your pension decisions , cash, equities, us , emerging, bonds etc

If numbers are your forte, "and anyone can twist a number to their own agenda" how do we know you're telling us the truth.

Are you saying that when you are using numbers it is valid, but when others present a counter argument, it's not valid?

And if you wouldn't mind, could you confirm if you are affected by the tax bill, if so was it to your benefit and if not, why you don't believe you were had.

Respectfully yours....

spacecoyote

Leroy42 wrote: »

Haha, this is too funny. You are the first to come congraatulating Trump on whatever the latest news you have heard. These bills are great, tax cuts are great etc.

Now you want to play the long game.

OK, so long game is that even based on the current growth projections the national debt, as per the links already posted, is set to reach levels not seen since the 1930's. That Trump is relying on levels of growth that would be both unheard of and unhealthy since the people simply doesn't exist to cover the jobs (unless we start letting Mexicans in again but they are all criminals)

The trend so far is that corporations are using the bonus for the tax cuts to undertake massive and record setting stock buy backs. That the money is not going to large job increases (the job number continue on the trend set by Obama) and wage growth is nowhere near the levels of the tax cuts.

Precisely, they're predicting the cost of servicing debt in 2019 to be 363bn per year (which is not far off the expected Medicaid spend), and that's still with relatively low interest rates. If rates go up...which they will have to if Trump wants to get to his hoped growth levels, that cost of servicing goes up.

If people stop buying treasuries, then again, they have to increase the coupons on them to attract money, further increasing the servicing costs.

If you want to reduce off your debt, you have really 2 options, increase revenue significantly or reduce spending significantly. The main way a government raises revenue is through taxes, but Trump has just cut them significantly, so that's that option out. Which only leaves reducing spending. And all that is going to do is hurt Trumps base, as well as the whole of America in general.

And he loves to harp on about stock market increases. The indices will have been significantly inflated by all the stock buybacks.

Simple laws of pricing. If you have more buyers than sellers in the market, prices go up. So a windfall of cash for businesses means they get to inflate their stock price, which in turn inflates the indices Trump loves to talk about. But its all completely artificial & isn't really benefitting the Average Joe American

Igotadose

RIGOLO wrote: »

Considering Im old enough to have lived thru a number of trends and cycles , and survived most by trusting my own instinct and number crunching, im content to follow the same instinct on this one, long term.
Neither of us will have a definitive answer today , tomorrow or next month, we will have some but its going to take more time for the full reveal. For now just make your pension decisions , cash, equities, us , emerging, bonds etc

Having been around through the recessions brought on by the oil embargo in the 70's, and the various recessions due to Reaganite spending to bankrupt the USSR, Bush's crashing of the economy due to off-book war financing, and now this massive tax cut, I believe a recession is imminent with the dollar plunging to new depths vs. the Euro. Brexit might mitigate that some (the exchange rate, that is), next year when it kicks in, but the $1.8tn in debt issuance in October will be a big shock to the system. Especially if the US has to raise the coupon rate in order to attract buyers that have been pissed off by stupid, unnecessary trade wars. With all your crying about rebalancing, what happens when China doesn't buy the US's notes when they're offered, until the US raises the rate? Oopsies.

In a painful way, the fact of the interest rate rising in October probably adds height and volume to the blue wave that's coming.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Sigh. Another false statement. Look at the national debt figures. There has been a steady increase in US national debt since the 60's. It was not a trend set by Obama.

If Donald Trump is doing such a great job, why is the trend set to continue? The man said he would eliminate the national in eight years. :rolleyes: If he is such a great business man etc. etc.

I have re-read your last few posts - as painful as they are to read. Why do you keep comparing what Trump does with Obama? But Obama this and Obama that. Does it make Donald Trumps actions as president acceptable? Or does it just make you feel better?

RIGOLO wrote: »

And the debt level continues on the trend also set by Obama. ...

Danzy

Igotadose wrote: »

.

In a painful way, the fact of the interest rate rising in October probably adds height and volume to the blue wave that's coming.

The Blue Wave seems to be subsiding. There will be big gains but they'll be hard pressed to win a majority.

If the trend of the last 6 months continue they might even lose a few from what they have.

listermint

Danzy wrote: »

The Blue Wave seems to be subsiding. There will be big gains but they'll be hard pressed to win a majority.

If the trend of the last 6 months continue they might even lose a few from what they have.

That would make sense if it was not for high profile incidents such as taking kids off people.

no doubt more will come over next few months.

Repeating the blue wave is subsiding enough times does not make it true.

Quin_Dub

Danzy wrote: »

The Blue Wave seems to be subsiding. There will be big gains but they'll be hard pressed to win a majority.

If the trend of the last 6 months continue they might even lose a few from what they have.

I think the thing is that there a a number of key inflection points coming over the next 3-4 months that have the potential to be very damaging to the GOP.

The October Debt re-issue is a very big one , if that goes as badly as some commentators are suggesting it might, then the Democrats can make gains.

Equally I think that the if the Manafort case gets into the court room before the elections and we get to see the actual details of the charges and the evidence that again could have significant impact as could any other major breaks in the Mueller investigation. And we still have Cohen/Daniels to consider as well.

Some or all of these could break in the Democrats favour , but it's also possible that they all (or enough of them) break in the GOP and Trumps favour.

It's still way to far out to really predict clearly.

kilns

When did America become such a divided country when the person an American hates the most is the America who has a different idealogy and point of view to them.
There needs to be a reset of the whole country, it may take a while but a new political movement needs to be born

However, to address the current lobsided balance if there is no "blue wave" at the mid terms, then America deserves everything it gets, they can complain no longer

josip

I'm not so sure the Dems will do well.
At the moment they don't seem to know whether they're capitalists or socialists.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44625617

everlast75

Economics is above my pay grade, and so I'd like to focus on what I believe to be true

Do you deny Trump is racist. (See central park 5, his use of words when describing other nationalities, the NFL)

would you agree he is a homophobe.(see his actions re LGBT groups)

Do you think he wants to restrict women's rights (see actions re family planning)

Would you agree Trump is beholden to Russia (The Senate and others have found there to be widespread efforts to affect the 2016 election yet no steps have been taken to address this happening again in the midterms)

Do you think Trump looks after the rich (see appointments made in his cabinet, the tax breaks for the wealthy)

kilns

Forgot he has to pay for his space force too, which will add a couple of billion to the debt

rossie1977

kilns wrote: »

When did America become such a divided country when the person an American hates the most is the America who has a different idealogy and point of view to them.
There needs to be a reset of the whole country, it may take a while but a new political movement needs to be born

However, to address the current lobsided balance if there is no "blue wave" at the mid terms, then America deserves everything it gets, they can complain no longer

1990s. This is when talk radio and fox news became popular. It created a far right movement that has grown year by year. 1990s also saw for the first time hardliners voted in top positions. People like Gingrich who were obstructional and caused government shut-downs.

josip wrote: »

I'm not so sure the Dems will do well.
At the moment they don't seem to know whether they're capitalists or socialists.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44625617

It's no different to the tea party movement in 2009-14. Populism is in and the Democrats are only now beginning to come around to that.

The 2020 election will be won in a handful of states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin. A populist Democratic candidate has a better chance of winning those states and appealing to blue collar voters than a corporate Democrat does.

RIGOLO

Perhaps Steve Mnuchin is a lurker on this thread, he is all over the news feeds talking about the CFIUS report but he also responded to many of the concerns raised here regarding debt.
Those 2028 CBO numbers are so far out, as in such a long projection , theres no certainty they will happen.
One of the big expenses that racked up US debt has been wars and projection of military might. Again Mnuchin is in favour of a reduction in US spending on projection of military might , with a view to reducing spending.

This could be a double whammy, reducing spending and reduced military tensions and activity .
Similarily whilst the debt to gdp ratio is something they Trump administration is monitoring its not currently giving them undue alarm. Plus the treasury is execting good GDP numbers . So thats Steve assessment . If your basing everything on CBO 2028 projections and commentary on that they I guess you will see it differently. Lets put a reminder in our calendar to check back in 10 years and see who was right.

Meanwhile the CFIUS report, Committe on Foreign investment in US had some interesting take aways. A new amendment to prevent joint ventures with blocked overseas companies sharing strategic IP, previously a joint venture was a workaround to let a US company share IP with a foreign company that has been blocked by the Treasury. The language of the report has toned down , and no longer refers directly to China .
This administration is not playing around when it comes to IP theft.

And to add to the woes of the Shanghai composite drop the NFID in china had a leaked report saying theres some concern for 'financial panic' in China due to their market issues. All the nouveau wealth and middle class Chinese who rushed out buying equities are seeing their losses mount and seeing growing number of defaults. The Chinese goverment have escalating domestic concerns that Trumps trade stance are exacerbating.
Like I said Trumps pressure on China is bending her , it gives Trump administration some added bargaining power as the trade rebalancing and tariff talks continues.

Danzy

rossie1977 wrote: »

1990s. This is when talk radio and fox news became popular. It created a far right movement that has grown year by year. 1990s also saw for the first time hardliners voted in top positions. People like Gingrich who were obstructional and caused government shut-downs.

It's no different to the tea party movement in 2009-14. Populism is in and the Democrats are only now beginning to come around to that.

The 2020 election will be won in a handful of states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin. A populist Democratic candidate has a better chance of winning those states and appealing to blue collar voters than a corporate Democrat does.

The Democrats are balkanizing though and it would not surprise to see one populist in New York savaging the voters and base of the Democrats in another part and vice versa and both having cracks off the electorate as a whole.

jooksavage

"North Korea making 'rapid' upgrades to nuclear reactor despite summit pledges"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/27/north-korea-nuclear-reactor-upgrades-summit-pledges

WTF? Well, I suppose you can't expect these deals to last forever. It has been a full 2 weeks since the summit.

pixelburp

Whatever about the 'blue wave', the 'progressive wave' might be the one to watch; 28 year old Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a former Bernie footsoldier, beat incumbent Joe Crowley (thought to be one of the more powerful Democrats in Congress, and had held the seat since 1999) in the primary for New York's 14th District. The district itself is heavily blue, so in effect Ocasio-Cortez is the Congresswoman elect. Crowley had outspent Cortez by millions, so by all accounts this seems like a bit of a shock.

Trump, of course, once more demonstrates his ignorance of current affairs, thinking Crowley was ousted for being a 'trump hater', when Cortez appears to be far more to the left. But sure, why not, Crowley didn't kiss the ring therefore got replaced, lol.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1011795883925663744

everlast75

jooksavage wrote: »

"North Korea making 'rapid' upgrades to nuclear reactor despite summit pledges"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/27/north-korea-nuclear-reactor-upgrades-summit-pledges

WTF? Well, I suppose you can't expect these deals to last forever. It has been a full 2 weeks since the summit.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1006839007492308992

*Nobel Prize committee quietly puts award back into the cabinet, and gently turns the key"

spacecoyote

This is a bit of leftfield one: https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians-flock-to-trump-properties-to-give-birth-to-us-citizens

In essence, Russians are paying big money to rent Trump-owned condos in America, where they come to have children & get them dual-citizenship

SVM-MED, a Miami birth-tourism company that also boasts outposts in Moscow and Kiev, offers three tiers of packages to its clients, with the top two advertising lodging in Trump Towers. The most expensive package costs $84,700 for a Trump Tower II apartment with a gold-tiled bathtub and chauffeured Cadillac Escalade or Mercedes Benz.

They're not claiming that Trump Inc are organising this. They lease the apartments to the companies presumably, who then use them to bring in the "Birthing Tourists". So they are indirectly benefiting from it.

Puts the whole, stop everyone from coming in at the border in a whole new light.

Its OK to come in on holiday, stay for a couple of months & have a child to gain citizenship...as long as you're wealthy enough to do it. But If you're a poor black or brown person coming across the border, the welcome is not quite so warm

RIGOLO

rossie1977 wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

When did America become such a divided country when the person an American hates the most is the America who has a different idealogy and point of view to them.
There needs to be a reset of the whole country, it may take a while but a new political movement needs to be born

However, to address the current lobsided balance if there is no "blue wave" at the mid terms, then America deserves everything it gets, they can complain no longer

1990s. This is when talk radio and fox news became popular. It created a far right movement that has grown year by year. 1990s also saw for the first time hardliners voted in top positions. People like Gingrich who were obstructional and caused government shut-downs.

josip wrote: »

I'm not so sure the Dems will do well.
At the moment they don't seem to know whether they're capitalists or socialists.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44625617

It's no different to the tea party movement in 2009-14. Populism is in and the Democrats are only now beginning to come around to that.

The 2020 election will be won in a handful of states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin. A populist Democratic candidate has a better chance of winning those states and appealing to blue collar voters than a corporate Democrat does.

1990s,ffs
People need to start thinking of history as a timeline outside of when they were born and also outside of just what happened in the 1930s.
American liberal militancy was rampant in the US of the late 60s early 70s , domestic bombings, campuses shutdowns, citys on shutdown, National Guard and Army patroling the streets.
It was that sort of liberal leftism that contributed to a backlash and led to Nixon and Reagan gaining power.
One cant just ignore the period of 1968-1978 and say American divisions began in 1990 on Foxnews.

weisses

RIGOLO wrote: »

If you believe markets only go up and they never go down. , then I guess you can see no positive
If you follow trends then you can take a long view.
I dont think you read my posts fully, I said the US can absorb the shocks better than other nations.
I never said the trade rebalancing would be without some US hits and impacts.

Again why are people assuming one day and one play makes the whole picture .
US market went down, and suddenly people think its proof Trumps economic policy is not working and will not work long term.
Im still open for anyone wanting to take up my offer on discussing the Shanghai Index collapse and what this means for US - China relations in Trumps first term as well as potentially into his second term... anyone ...

thats a bit rich coming from someone who is stating

First blood to Trump in the trade rebalacing, it may be a mortal blow

And you do realize the Trump trade wars are only partially to blame for the SSE downwards correction right ?

The US cannot absorb retaliation measures coming from the EU, Canada, and China

Heck he's going ape**** about Harley Davidson already ... He hasn't got a feckin clue what is coming

Manic Moran

kilns wrote: »

Forgot he has to pay for his space force too, which will add a couple of billion to the debt

I'm not sure it'll add that much. I strongly suspect there will be some administrative costs involved, but it's likely merely detaching the current Joint Force Space Component Command and the US Air Force Space Command (combined force well exceeding 30,000 personnel) into its own independent purpose-oriented organisation. I'm enjoying the memes as much as anyone, but I'm not sure it's not a bad idea, much as the US Air Force was detached from the Army after some four decades of being the US Army Air Corps/Air Force. Paying more attention to space has become more and more important, note how Obama in his last defense bill started to emphasise space operations. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-missile-defense-signing-20161223-story.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/19/opinions/trump-space-force-air-force-divide-kirby/index.html

everlast75

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm not sure it'll add that much. I strongly suspect there will be some administrative costs involved, but it's likely merely detaching the current Joint Force Space Component Command and the US Air Force Space Command (combined force well exceeding 30,000 personnel) into its own independent purpose-oriented organisation. I'm enjoying the memes as much as anyone, but I'm not sure it's not a bad idea, much as the US Air Force was detached from the Army after some four decades of being the US Army Air Corps/Air Force. Paying more attention to space has become more and more important, note how Obama in his last defense bill started to emphasise space operations. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-missile-defense-signing-20161223-story.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/19/opinions/trump-space-force-air-force-divide-kirby/index.html

Maybe they could just get fresh water into Flint Michigan, some power back to Puerto Rico, and the kids back to their parents first before launching a ****ing space force.

Christy42

weisses wrote: »

RIGOLO wrote: »

If you believe markets only go up and they never go down. , then I guess you can see no positive
If you follow trends then you can take a long view.
I dont think you read my posts fully, I said the US can absorb the shocks better than other nations.
I never said the trade rebalancing would be without some US hits and impacts.

Again why are people assuming one day and one play makes the whole picture .
US market went down, and suddenly people think its proof Trumps economic policy is not working and will not work long term.
Im still open for anyone wanting to take up my offer on discussing the Shanghai Index collapse and what this means for US - China relations in Trumps first term as well as potentially into his second term... anyone ...

thats a bit rich coming from someone who is stating

First blood to Trump in the trade rebalacing, it may be a mortal blow

And you do realize the Trump trade wars are only partially to blame for the SSE downwards correction right ?

The US cannot absorb retaliation measures coming from the EU, Canada, and China

Heck he's going ape**** about Harley Davidson already ... He hasn't got a feckin clue what is coming

You know after all this no one. Not here or from the administration has explained why trade needs rebalancing.

Nor have they tried and I really don't expect them to try. If they argue about it they will lose so they just skip that step and talk about the best way to do it.

A bit like the reported statements of Munchin really. Just a case of we don't believe the figures the experts supplied but we are not supplying our own. We will make savings in future (we pinky swear). There are no statements you can hang you hat on, just vague platitudes saying it is great with no facts.

Interestingly the markets got a bit of a boost today as Trump did not come down as hard on China tech as expected. And by a bit of a boost I of course mean that Trump did not hurt the US economy by as much as people expected him to.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/06/27/us-stock-futures-trade-oil-tensions-ratchet-up-another-gear.html

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm not sure it'll add that much. I strongly suspect there will be some administrative costs involved, but it's likely merely detaching the current Joint Force Space Component Command and the US Air Force Space Command (combined force well exceeding 30,000 personnel) into its own independent purpose-oriented organisation. I'm enjoying the memes as much as anyone, but I'm not sure it's not a bad idea, much as the US Air Force was detached from the Army after some four decades of being the US Army Air Corps/Air Force. Paying more attention to space has become more and more important, note how Obama in his last defense bill started to emphasise space operations. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-missile-defense-signing-20161223-story.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/19/opinions/trump-space-force-air-force-divide-kirby/index.html

Ah Manic, you really think that setting up an entire new division, with entire new battle plans, weapons, vehicles etc etc will not cost that much?

Trump just increased spending on the military by $58bn to try to bring up to the standard and you think they can do this on current pay?

On wouldn't moving all those people and resources away from Navy/AF not reduce their capacity, it has to unless they increase it.

It is a nothing idea, a thought bubble by a man who has not one clue what he is talking about.

The US is not even in control of its own space program anymore, relying on private contractors and the Russians. There will need to be a serious amount of investment to change that.

All the while, people in the US await the infrastructure promised by Trump

Manic Moran

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is a nothing idea, a thought bubble by a man who has not one clue what he is talking about.

If you would avoid letting your opposition of the man blind you to the backstory, you might want to look into the history of the proposal, it's been bandied about since at least 2000 when it was recommended by a commission. https://fas.org/spp/military/commission/report.htm
Of course, other distractions came up shortly thereafter and the idea was tabled for a while.

It kicked up again last year after a House Armed Services Committee again made the recommendation.

Reorganizes the national security space enterprise to ensure prioritization of the space domain by creating a U.S. Space Corps as a separate military service within the Department of the Air Force and under the civilian leadership of the Secretary of the Air Force; https://armedservices.house.gov/news/press-releases/mark-release-subcommittee-strategic-forces

The White House actually objected to it last year when it was being considered by Congress. https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2017/07/12/white-house-against-space-corps-and-other-house-plans-fueling-policy-bill-debate/

However, when the House Armed Services Committee passed with an overwhelming 60-1 bi-partisan vote the idea in the middle of last year, ("GAO has done three studies on this, all of which tell us that you cannot maintain the current organizational construct of the Air Force and solve the acquisition problems and the operational problems that we have.") and put the direction to create the Space Force (Or Corps, terminology keeps changing) in the 2018 Defense Authoristion Act, that bill also passed with bipartisan support about 380-80. https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/14/politics/house-passes-defense-bill-space-corps/index.html. An attempt to amend the bill by removing the Space Force recommendation was defeated.

So what seems to have happened is that Trump has changed position to match what Congress has been looking to for the past year.

RIGOLO

Manic Moran wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is a nothing idea, a thought bubble by a man who has not one clue what he is talking about.

If you would avoid letting your opposition of the man blind you to the backstory, you might want to look into the history of the proposal, it's been bandied about since at least 2000 when it was recommended by a commission. https://fas.org/spp/military/commission/report.htm
Of course, other distractions came up shortly thereafter and the idea was tabled for a while.

It kicked up again last year after a House Armed Services Committee again made the recommendation.

Reorganizes the national security space enterprise to ensure prioritization of the space domain by creating a U.S. Space Corps as a separate military service within the Department of the Air Force and under the civilian leadership of the Secretary of the Air Force; https://armedservices.house.gov/news/press-releases/mark-release-subcommittee-strategic-forces

The White House actually objected to it last year when it was being considered by Congress. https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2017/07/12/white-house-against-space-corps-and-other-house-plans-fueling-policy-bill-debate/

However, when the House Armed Services Committee passed with an overwhelming 60-1 bi-partisan vote the idea in the middle of last year, ("GAO has done three studies on this, all of which tell us that you cannot maintain the current organizational construct of the Air Force and solve the acquisition problems and the operational problems that we have.") and put the direction to create the Space Force (Or Corps, terminology keeps changing) in the 2018 Defense Authoristion Act, that bill also passed with bipartisan support about 380-80. https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/14/politics/house-passes-defense-bill-space-corps/index.html. An attempt to amend the bill by removing the Space Force recommendation was defeated.

So what seems to have happened is that Trump has changed position to match what Congress has been looking to for the past year.

HUA !

Leroy42

My hatred of the man? What has that got to do with anything. I am trying to discuss the idea. My opinion of Trump as a person is irrelevant, and even if I did have certain opinions about him it is clear that there is nothing to be gained from pointing them out to his supporters.

Therefore the only thing I try to debate is the facts. You stated that this would not cost that much, I totally disagree. Everything in the military costs, and normally way more than they plan for. Look at some of the recent projects, even Trump things they pay way too much.

But now, despite not being effective enough in the combat scenarios they are in, (which you have previously pointed out) they want to go out and spend.

I totally agree that congress has been looking for this, but we all know that Trump doesn't care too much about congress. So when I try to see where this idea is coming from, based on all previous evidence with Trump, I would wager that something was said to him about it prior to the speech so he simply threw it in there.

That's why I call it a nothing idea. No the idea itself, but rather that Trump has no knowledge of what it is, what it will cost, timelines, resources etc.

It goes back to an earlier post I made. Posters come on here making arguments for Trumps position, but in most cases Trump hasn't considered any of them. That is why he is so quick to change his mind, its easy when its not based on any actual opinion. Look at the Obamacare debacle - "Who knew how complicated healthcare was". Look at the staggering lack of details in regards to the tax reform. His complete climbdown on the immigration policy. The absolute mess that was the travel ban. He has said himself that he simply wings it, doesn't need to prep.

Hell, even is signature idea, the Mexican wall. He had no idea how to build it, who was going to pay for it, where to place it.

So Space Force may or may not be a good idea, but Trump only considers it in terms of what it can provide for him.