When did "Liberal" become a bad word?

Americans twisted the meaning of the word liberal and now we are stupid enough to copy them.

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

In the US (And increasingly here) the term "Liberal" is bandied about as a bad word. As if it is a bad thing to be a "Liberal". I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT US PARTIES: Democrat and Republican. I'm talking about liberal thinking versus conservative thinking.

In my opinion (Which is of value only to me and nobody else. Just the same as other's opinions) conservative thinking is about maintaining the current situation: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Some think maybe some things need to be rolled back.

But liberal thinking is what progresses us as a people. Ireland would originally have been considered a very conservative country (especially in relation to mainland Europe) and is still, in many ways still considered so.

But here's the thing: Liberal thinking gave women the vote; allowed equal rights for people regardless of gender, race, creed or sexual orientation (In theory anyway); the ability for people to marry who they want; freed the slaves; improved living standards etc....

I mean what is "wrong" about that? Again, I am NOT talking US Party politics as, in the US, many of these acts were implemented under Republican legislation.

Again, in my OPINION ONLY, staying put, not thinking outside the box is, while not "wrong", not advancing us as a people. Is not opening us up to new ways of thinking.

Now, I know this thread is probably going to descend into name calling and general nastiness on both sides but can someone explain it to me why liberalism is "wrong" in their eyes?

And please PLEASE try to keep it civil. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone's opinion is just as valid and important to them as yours is to you.

OP I completely agree. Although when you say that conservative thinking is about maintining the status quo, I would argue that it is actually about reverting back to past. Conservative thinking often looks back on the past with rose tinted glasses. For example, older conservative people saying that times were simpler back in their heyday.

I think it's because freedom of speech has been replaced with freedom of shouting on the Internet. It's easy to fill the Internet ether with a lie and eventually people in the target demographic accepts the lie even though they know better. Keep it up long enough, you can base everything you do on lies because at some point it's all about "them vs us".

Mutant z wrote: »

Liberal certainly is not a bad word the problem is certain folks idea of what a liberal is supposed to be for them its those who share their world view and anyone who doesn't share it are all bigots. Funny enough they claim to be liberal but are in favour of censorship which is about as illiberal as it gets.

This. A true liberal is the person who hates you, everything you stand for, and every political view you hold but is also the person you can absolutely rely on to stand beside you when they come to shut you down. They've almost certainly got a "fcuk your safe space" t-shirt in their wardrobe somewhere.

It's the other self declared "liberals" who believe in no platforming, safe spaces etc that are the problem. If your argument is as self evidently correct as you think then you should have no difficulty defending your position in any forum.

Omackeral wrote: »

I don't know what that is but I want it now. Sounds fcuking delicious.

Milky toast? Sounds phucking rank

kuntboy wrote: »

Liberals don't get to set the narrative, though they like to think they do. Their propaganda has infected western universities and MSM so much they now resemble the USSR.

How do Irish universities and RTE/TV3/The Indo resemble the USSR?

Equality and fair treatment are good but liberal became a bad word when you pushed it too far.

For example:

But the moment criminals had more rights than victims you pushed it too far.
When taxpayer funded welfare became a viable career choice rather than a safety net you pushed it too far.
When "positive descriminate" made it ok to punish the white males of today because of the sons of the white males of yesterday you pushed it too far.
When the taxpayers who fund the public health system were called parasites on that system for also having private health insurance you pushed it too far.

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

In my opinion (Which is of value only to me and nobody else. Just the same as other's opinions) conservative thinking is about maintaining the current situation: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Some think maybe some things need to be rolled back.
But liberal thinking is what progresses us as a people. Ireland would originally have been considered a very conservative country (especially in relation to mainland Europe) and is still, in many ways still considered so.
But here's the thing: Liberal thinking gave women the vote; allowed equal rights for people regardless of gender, race, creed or sexual orientation (In theory anyway); the ability for people to marry who they want; freed the slaves; improved living standards etc....

By that standard did liberal thinking also give us the guillotine and the terror of the french revolution, the USSR and the gulag, the cultural revolution and all those tens of millions of deaths?

Conservatism has nothing to do with preserving the status quo just for the sake of it. Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were conservatives, when they took power they set about changing the domestic and Cold War status quo they inherited, using new thinking and new economic approaches.

It was not liberalism that freed the slaves, or improved living standards.
I don't see how Lincoln's approach to slavery could be described as liberal, given that when he took office his approach was to prevent it from spreading further, so that over time it would gradually be superseded and go extinct. It was only in response to the evolving conditions of the civil war that he took more expansive steps. Which seems like a rather conservative thing to do.

Usually when 'Liberal' is used as an insult it's because of a position like affirmative action, or people who favour free speech but only for opinions they agree with, or who oppose capital punishment but support abortion, or who seems to want to give criminals more rights but never their victims.
Someone who thinks the solution to every problem is a new law or more money or more powers for the state and doesn't seem to concern themselves with where the money is coming from.

More typically in today's world, the terminology in the US would be that liberals would see the state \ big government as the engine of progress and the means to resolve social ills, whereas for conservatives the state should enable and defend and allow people to get on with what they want to do.

I think ultimately the difference in vision is that conservatives are comparing today to the past and to other countries, whereas liberals are comparing today to a utopian vision \ vision of the future.

So conservatives tend to be more accepting of current ills that they think have always been there, and tend to be cautious about taking steps to fix these because of the risk that it could go horribly wrong, have unpredictable consequences or just have no effect.

Isn't the current US style usage just a result of republicans feeling like they need a word for people who don't define themselves as conservative?