Charles Babbage wrote: » By this do mean the ban abolished 50 years ago, or not renting out grounds to competitors? Lots of organisations do not rent their facilities to competitors.
Trasna1 wrote: » There is nothing in the slightest bit racist (quasi or anything) about not ground sharing with other sports. You need to learn what racism is.
Zebra3 wrote: » There is when the main reason for not making facilities available is based on where those sports are from.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Still waiting for examples of an organisation that has nationalists as members being nationalistic itself.
alaimacerc wrote: » Still never troubled to read the Gaa rulebook, then.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Alan frequently has to go back decades to avoid giving examples of the modern GAA being a nationalistic organisation.
A organisation that welcomes all creeds, religious and political.
FrancieBrady wrote: » When was the last time the GAA refused the use of a ground for another sport?
You should know this about the 'nationalistic GAA'.
alaimacerc wrote: » No idea. "Please do not ask for exceptions to Rule 42, as a refusal often offends"? As far as I know, there's been no "foreign field sports" in Croker since 2010, after Lansdowne Road reopened, and none at all elsewhere. Unless you count American football, which the Gaa apparently doesn't. You've alternately denied that this rule exists, and loudly approved of it. Could you maybe pick one, and stick with it? Just to ration the comedy, mind. Why? Sure it's only yerself that's ever used the phrase you just quoted.
Grounds controlled by Association units shall not be used or permitted to be used, for horse racing, greyhound racing, or for field games other than those sanctioned by Central Council.
Trasna1 wrote: » Racism is discrimination based on ethnicity. Abusing a white Frenchman because he is french is not racism, but abusing a black Irishman because he is black is racism. Please learn what racism is.
OED wrote: The fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.
FrancieBrady wrote: » :D Yes, you have never said that the correct term for people calling the GAA a nationalist organisation was 'realists'.
You will be able to show when they have refused to allow 'foreign' games to be played, and what is 'nationalistic' about these refusals. Gets hard to stick to preconceptions when asked to back them up isn't it Alan?
alaimacerc wrote: » Yeah, that was something I said. And also something that's obviously true. Unlike the nonsense you just wheeled out. "Alan", and "nationalistic" again. You're banging on about other's supposed "preconceptions" when you're only arguing with a person that doesn't exist, about things only you actually said.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » Taytoland wrote: » Or you believe in the Union. The DUP have been a boon for nationalism, a united Ireland, and are well on their way to helping the Tories tear the UK asunder. Congratulations.
Taytoland wrote: » Or you believe in the Union.
Taytoland wrote: » Whatever helps you sleep.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Taytoland wrote: » Whatever helps you sleep. At least there are facts to back up that contention.
Taytoland wrote: » Such as what?
FrancieBrady wrote: » Sorry, didn't look at your name properly.
So no facts to back up your contention that seeing the GAA as a nationalist organisation is realistic.
alaimacerc wrote: » Which is confusing, when you're also ascribing things to "Alan" that I didn't say. I was a while looking through the thread for this person saying any of these things! ... other than the copious evidence already mentioned, that only you seem to have any trouble at all seeing. And maybe even there the scales are slowly falling from your eyes, given the repeated attempts to shift from "not nationalist" to "not exclusively nationalist", "not nationalistic", "not Catholic", "not a nationalist political party", etc. What's next, "maybe slightly nationalist"? I ask again. If the Gaa isn't a nationalist organisation, what on earth does a nationalist organisation look like to you? If your theory is that it used to be a nationalist organisation, but isn't any more, any rough idea when this supposedly ceased? Read their dang rulebook! I'd post big chunks of it, but that would spam everyone else, who seem clear enough on this already. And reading things posted here doesn't seem to be your strong suit, anyway. Look at any broadsheet journalist's or academic's take on the topic.
alaimacerc wrote: » Being French isn't an ethnicity? "Please learn what ethnicity is." Here, I'll even help: So, no, not just a 'polite' word for skin colour.
Trasna1 wrote: » My point still stands. Discrimination against a white Frenchman for being from France is not racism. It's xenophobia. And it's not racism for the GAA to not permit "foreign" games in it's grounds, for those that play those games in Ireland are of the same race to those that play GAA. You could at a stretch call it cultural xenophobia but that would be a distortion of the truth. The truth is that this rule was created at a time when the GAA was up against it in creating an organisation and faced particularly stiff competition from cricket for players. A combination of cultural and political factors allowed the GAA to take hold and this rule prevented the gains being lost (as well as other prohibitions placed on GAA members). In fact those same risks are present today, where clubs have to compete with other sports for players. The GAA had an advantage in that it had built up good facilities over the years and while the original purpose of the rule (what we have we hold) is no longer relevant - new manifestations of old pressures remain, hence the ban is retained. And not all GAA grounds are vested in the GAA, and those clubs are free to do what they want with their grounds. And they find, that generally there is no pressure to open up their grounds to outsiders from their members so others can take advantage of all the work that they have put in fundraising and building even if they were to pay a rent - since it undermines the foundation of the very same club.
Ash.J.Williams wrote: » You're mixing up nationalist with just being Irish. I'll give you an example, is wicklow gaa nationalistic... No, is kildare... No.... Is any other county below the border counties.... No.... Are the border counties and Northern counties... Not officially but things are complex there and that's obvious.
FrancieBrady wrote: » The rule has long been amended. It is now up to Central Council to decide on requests. We are still awaiting facts showing denial of requests and analysis of what was nationalistic about them specifically. One might further ask what was nationalistic about banning greyhound and horse racing originally but I suspect that will be clouded by some invective about mistaken names or such too.
irelandrover wrote: » I'd argue that the fact that the Irish National Anthem is played before games and the Irish flag are flown makes it nationalist.
Trasna1 wrote: » FrancieBrady wrote: » The rule has long been amended. It is now up to Central Council to decide on requests. We are still awaiting facts showing denial of requests and analysis of what was nationalistic about them specifically. One might further ask what was nationalistic about banning greyhound and horse racing originally but I suspect that will be clouded by some invective about mistaken names or such too. I would have always considered the GAA to be a culturally nationalist apolitical organisation, though in and around NI the line gets blurred between the culture and the political. Hardly surprising, since the GAA is a product of it's members and the society it exists in. I'd that a bad thing? Hardly. Does it mean that it prevents the apprentice boys of Derry setting up a team? No. There are far more complex reasons around identity that means unionists generally don't play GAA, than a song and a flag.
Trasna1 wrote: » I would have always considered the GAA to be a culturally nationalist apolitical organisation, though in and around NI the line gets blurred between the culture and the political. Hardly surprising, since the GAA is a product of it's members and the society it exists in. I'd that a bad thing? Hardly. Does it mean that it prevents the apprentice boys of Derry setting up a team? No. There are far more complex reasons around identity that means unionists generally don't play GAA, than a song and a flag.
FrancieBrady wrote: » I'd argue that is being 'Irish', just like the English team or the French team play their anthems and use their flags in support.
FrancieBrady wrote: » irelandrover wrote: » I'd argue that the fact that the Irish National Anthem is played before games and the Irish flag are flown makes it nationalist. I'd argue that is being 'Irish', just like the English team or the French team play their anthems and use their flags in support.
