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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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snotboogie

who_me wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Anything new in it?

Port of Cork development started, it doesn't say much about the BAM dispute

Hadn't heard about the BAM issue before. They're really not making it easy on themselves, it's only helping paint a picture of them as 'bait and switch'ers.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/12m-tender-mistake-could-stall-cork-port-scheme-36570164.html

Apogee

snotboogie wrote: »

The Prism: A 15 storey 70 metre office development on the triangle site on Clontarf Street. Planning lodged in the middle of May and a decision is due on the 10th of July.

Evening Echo wrote:

HERITAGE body An Taisce has lodged a planning objection opposing a new development in the heart of Cork city saying it would have a negative impact on the city’s skyline.The Prism, a €20 million glass-fronted building 15 storeys high, is planned for a small triangular site next to the Parnell Place bus station.

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/An-Taisce-objects-to-20m-Cork-skyscraper-3ef1a74f-5694-4467-9362-f57286087634-ds

SleetAndSnow

Oh for god sake, It would ADD to the skyline! The elysian is just across the way ffs. ''An Taisce, We hate development!''

Hopefully their appeal gets rejected, it looks like a gorgeous building.

marno21

I hope the Council have their shredder well oiled for this type of rubbish.

One of the few organisations in this country determined to keep the country in the 19th century. It's about time we moved on.

flo8s967qjh0nd

Apogee wrote: »

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/An-Taisce-objects-to-20m-Cork-skyscraper-3ef1a74f-5694-4467-9362-f57286087634-ds

This seems to be the only image of this development in the public sphere. I haven't looked at the planning documents. I wonder what it looks like from Oliver Plunkett, South Mall, etc. Not as sleek as this view, I bet.
An Taisce have a job to do. They do more good than harm in general. It's there role to raise these issues.

blindsider

An Taisce...seriously! FFS!

someone seriously needs to look at their Terms of Reference, strategic purpose or whatever you want to call it.

How can we publicly fund an organisation whose default position seems to be "OBJECT" to every new development.

They'll have us back 'dancing at the crossroads' next!!!

SleetAndSnow

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

This seems to be the only image of this development in the public sphere. I haven't looked at the planning documents. I wonder what it looks like from Oliver Plunkett, South Mall, etc. Not as sleek as this view, I bet.
An Taisce have a job to do. They do more good than harm in general. It's there role to raise these issues.

I don't think they have done that good of a job in Dublin, we do not want to end up like them down here. No thanks.

At least CCC is more open minded to high rise vs DCC and will hopefully push for the objection to fall. Ridiculous.

marno21

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

This seems to be the only image of this development in the public sphere. I haven't looked at the planning documents. I wonder what it looks like from Oliver Plunkett, South Mall, etc. Not as sleek as this view, I bet.
An Taisce have a job to do. They do more good than harm in general. It's there role to raise these issues.

It's 15 storeys tall. Not 70. Take a look at the Flatiron Building in Manhattan from the same angles and you'll see. Except in New York they had the sense to build tall buildings around tall buildings instead of objecting to the first "tall" building before you fill in the blanks. Cork will never achieve its potential if there is a 5/6 storey limit on riverside buildings.

The days of Dev's Ireland are gone and we need to evolve now.

marno21

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

I don't think they have done that good of a job in Dublin, we do not want to end up like them down here. No thanks.

At least CCC is more open minded to high rise vs DCC and will hopefully push for the objection to fall. Ridiculous.

Exactly. Acres upon acres of prime development land in Dublin destroyed by the "shoebox cancer" that both DCC and all the others desire so much.

Why should we do it simply because they did. We can at least learn from the mistakes made in Dublin.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

An Taisce have a job to do. They do more good than harm in general.

Wouldn't agree with that. They have way too much influence.

blindsider

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

This seems to be the only image of this development in the public sphere. I haven't looked at the planning documents. I wonder what it looks like from Oliver Plunkett, South Mall, etc. Not as sleek as this view, I bet.
An Taisce have a job to do. They do more good than harm in general. It's there role to raise these issues.

They don't though - they're a self-serving bunch of academic naivetes, who would rather focus on the prevention of any innovation, than anything meaningful of their own volition!

flo8s967qjh0nd

marno21 wrote: »

It's 15 storeys tall. Not 70. Take a look at the Flatiron Building in Manhattan from the same angles and you'll see......

The days of Dev's Ireland are gone and we need to evolve now.

The very definition of a 'flat iron' is that it must have a broad side and a narrow side. We'te only seeing the 'sleek' narrow side of the building. The broad side, presumably is, eh...broader.

Dev's Ireland? Get a grip.

flo8s967qjh0nd

blindsider wrote: »

They don't though - they're a self-serving bunch of academic naivetes, who would rather focus on the prevention of any innovation, than anything meaningful of their own volition!

If you think that about An Taisce, that's fine. I'm not here to defend them. But this 'flat iron' is not innovation.

Mushy

Technically not in the city, but carrigtwohill community council appealing the big development out here. Valid grounds too, BAM never adhered to last permission grounds, so no trust in them.

AugustusMinimus

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

The very definition of a 'flat iron' is that it must have a broad side and a narrow side. We'te only seeing the 'sleek' narrow side of the building. The broad side, presumably is, eh...broader.

Dev's Ireland? Get a grip.

Both sides of the building will obscure the same proportion of view unless you think you can see through the building from the narrow end.

An Taisce’s aim here is to stifle development as they object to literally anything above 5 stories.

flo8s967qjh0nd

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Both sides of the building will obscure the same proportion of view unless you think you can see through the building from the narrow end.

Ok. Maybe I need to be clearer. Take the above photomontage and rotate it 90 degrees. That's what I mean by the broadside (i.e. west to east view).

AugustusMinimus

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

Ok. Maybe I need to be clearer. Take the above photomontage and rotate it 90 degrees. That's what I mean by the broadside (i.e. west to east view).

I’m not sure exactly where you can stand on either side and what view you are blocking.

From the west you will be blocking views of the old warehouses which had Flor Griffin and Maher’s Outdoor. You may also miss the top of Merchsnts Quay and car park.

From the other side you will block views of the back of Jury’s Inn and the back of the Clarion Hotel.

An Taisce don’t care. It could be a view of a rubbish dump, they’d still object.

IMO you are actually creating an architectural feature. Do people in NY complain of lack of views?

snotboogie

Mushy wrote: »

Technically not in the city, but carrigtwohill community council appealing the big development out here. Valid grounds too, BAM never adhered to last permission grounds, so no trust in them.

Which big development?

Mushy

snotboogie wrote: »

Which big development?

277 houses, planning was granted recently enough.

snotboogie

Mushy wrote: »

277 houses, planning was granted recently enough.

Ah right, nice one

AugustusMinimus

Mushy wrote: »

277 houses, planning was granted recently enough.

What’s the grounds for objection? Insufficient access?

Mushy

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

What’s the grounds for objection? Insufficient access?

Before the current development was built, BAM had to built a link road from IDA park to near train station. Hundreds of houses and decade plus later, no road built yet. Think community centre and football pitch mentioned too, but nothing built.

So essentially saying any conditions imposed, why trust them!

blindsider

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

If you think that about An Taisce, that's fine. I'm not here to defend them. But this 'flat iron' is not innovation.

Is there any 'flat iron' building in Ireland? I'll argue relative innovation if there isn't.

The proposed development is 15 storeys - for Cork, that's definitely innovative IMO!

Rhys Essien

Only the other day An Bord Pleanala turned down an objection from An Taisce for an expansion to the Savoy Hotel in Limerick.It is now going ahead.Hopefully they do the same here with The Prism job.

Story here.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/319096/jobs-boost-as-limericks-savoy-hotel-gets-go-ahead-for-8m-development.html

AugustusMinimus

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Only the other day An Bord Pleanala turned down an objection from An Taisce for an expansion to the Savoy Hotel in Limerick.It is now going ahead.Hopefully they do the same here with The Prism job.

Story here.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/319096/jobs-boost-as-limericks-savoy-hotel-gets-go-ahead-for-8m-development.html

Really nice integration of old and new.

flo8s967qjh0nd

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I’m not sure exactly where you can stand on either side and what view you are blocking.

From the west you will be blocking views of the old warehouses which had Flor Griffin and Maher’s Outdoor. You may also miss the top of Merchsnts Quay and car park.

From the other side you will block views of the back of Jury’s Inn and the back of the Clarion Hotel.

An Taisce don’t care. It could be a view of a rubbish dump, they’d still object.

IMO you are actually creating an architectural feature. Do people in NY complain of lack of views?

To be fair it's not about blocking views of particular buildings. People get far too hung up on that and it's not what is being objected to here. It is about altering the overall view in that direction, not about blocking some rather average buildings.

AugustusMinimus

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

To be fair it's not about blocking views of particular buildings. People get far too hung up on that and it's not what is being objected to here. It is about altering the overall view in that direction, not about blocking some rather average buildings.

There has to be a view of something to block this development.

If you can block this building just because it blocks a view of anything, that’s basically a licence to block all development above 6 stories.

Is that what this country needs? Low density development everywhere, creating sprawl and not providing enough density for proper public transport. As Marno has said, Dublin has wasted nearly all of its brownfield sites in the City Centre through 6 story buildings. Let’s hope Cork doesn’t do the same.

JupiterKid

An Taisce has utterly abused its position as our unofficial national trust agency and literally object to anything and everything in this country.

They should be hugely reformed with forward, 21st thinking members or disbanded altogether. They are not fit for purpose any longer.

flo8s967qjh0nd

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There has to be a view of something to block this development.

This building will be prominent in the skyline. It will change the skyline, for better or worse. I'm not saying this building should be turned down because of that but it's fair that people are free to argue the merits of it. What's so wrong with that? The planners will decide whether An Taisce (or me or you) like it or not. This demonisation of An Taisce because it objects to fairly average looking buildings has got to stop. It is not always the case that 'any building' is better than 'no building'.

SleetAndSnow

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

This building will be prominent in the skyline. It will change the skyline, for better or worse. I'm not saying this building should be turned down because of that but it's fair that people are free to argue the merits of it. What's so wrong with that? The planners will decide whether An Taisce (or me or you) like it or not. This demonisation of An Taisce because it objects to fairly average looking buildings has got to stop. It is not always the case that 'any building' is better than 'no building'.

But the Elysian is already there? It won’t drastically change it? If they object to every high rise building because it will change the skyline we will never have another one built, you have to start building them and change the skyline for them to fit in.