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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

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pixelburp

Blowfish wrote: »

Melania decided to wear a jacket with 'I really don't care, do u?' on her trip to the immigration centre.

spacecoyote wrote: »

https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a21753821/melania-trump-i-really-dont-care-do-u-jacket-immigrant-children-visit/

That's utterly, depressingly hilarious. This is gallows humour at this stage.

listermint wrote: »

These things are extremely purposeful that jacket served a purpose. It was designed to antagonise and get a rise. For what end I'm not sure.perhaps it was for trumps base so they could get off on the outrage and reaffirm that all those liberals out there will go crazy over a jacket look how pc they want you to be.

There's no accident here. It's by design

Huh. I dunno, I'm invoking Hanlon's Razor here; "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity".

The White House is (under?)staffed by the exasperated leftovers, many of whom are probably spending most of their waking hours trying to damage control an impatient, hair-trigger narcissist of a president. I daresay it never occurred to them the empty vessel of a wife would throw on something that tone deaf. I mean she's barely in the White House anyway, right? She's still spending much of her time over in New York and if so, who's checking in on her?

everlast75

The jacket is a distraction.

Big story about to break I reckon.

mcmoustache

everlast75 wrote: »

The jacket is a distraction.

Big story about to break I reckon.

This?

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/what-does-the-british-government-know-about-trump-and-russia/

Then there’s Cambridge Analytica. The (now shuttered) British company did the Trump campaign’s data. Its speciality was ‘microtargeting’: individual messages tailored to individual voters, delivered by email, Facebook and Twitter. The US intelligence agencies believe that Russian internet ‘troll factories’ were also pushing out pro-Trump propaganda on social media: sometimes fake news, sometimes real news, such as the hacked contents of Clinton’s emails. The question is whether this was done in coordination with the Trump campaign. An American lawyer I know told me that he was approached by a Cambridge Analytica employee after the election. They had had the Clinton emails more than a month before they were published by WikiLeaks: ‘What should I do?’ Take this to Mueller, the lawyer replied.

Christy42

It was absolutely by design. Far too specific otherwise.

Supporters can claim otherwise while agreeing with the message. She is with her husband who threw kids in cages and she blamed anyone and everyone else. She is in this for the long haul.

It would be idiocy to think these people don't check what they are wearing for a specific day(and I include any politician in that).

Ffs the colour of their ties are analysed to the last detail. The Whitehouse may be understaffed but with Melinia and Donald in there the fashion section is not underfunded.

Nox

You failed to respond to the question of responsibility. Literally thousands of children were dumped on us with no parents to provide for them. I ask again … Whose responsibility is this?

Nox

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I was listening to Morning Ireland earlier and they had some audio of children crying in a detention centre. How in all that is holy can anyone think this is an acceptable way to treat children? It's vile.

"It's like an orchestra"- a federal agent.
Absolutely vile

Try going to a law court sometime and listen to the crying by the guilty and/or their families. Almost anyone can cry on demand.

Corkblowin

Nox wrote: »

Try going to a law court sometime and listen to the crying by the guilty and/or their families. Almost anyone can cry on demand.

Is that you Ann?

TomOnBoard

Corkblowin wrote: »

Is that you Ann?

Yeah, the good old Ann Coulter School of Child Acting...

Manic Moran

Leroy42 wrote: »

Vast sections? HC won more votes. It was a combination of bad planning, bad vote management, lack of attention to specific areas and the fact that HC herself was a poor campaigner.

Gerrymandering has a massive impact, when you look at how some of the districts have been carved up it is staggering that such an advanced democracy has allowed it to happen.

But the Dems can't change that in the short-term (and probably won't want to if they are winning). What they can do is get the vote out. The need to get a registration drive, really push people to vote.

Issues such as gun control, abortion rights etc. That is where they can lead the new wave. They have a massive advantage with Obamacare. They brought it in, and despite doing everything to stop it, and constantly moaning it about it ever since, when push came to shove the GOP left it as is. Go you can sell that as the GOP not having anything better and thuis the Dems are the party with ideas. Whether they can or not is another question.

One thing we do know for sure from Trump is that he is only interested in his base, anyone not on his side is not part of his plans.

I agree with your post as a whole, but not with the specific bolded by me. They would do better to focus on other subjects, particularly economic.
My personal opinions on the subject notwithstanding, there is a reason why gun control is treated very gingerly by Democrats at the national level (even though it plays very well in some demographics like San Francisco). It’s a proven vote-loser, has been since 1994, and polling support this. Most voters are in favor of gun control improvements, most are not in favor of the improvements advocated by the coastal democrats at the forefront. Dianne Feinstein style gun control is far removed from Conor Lamb style gun control (The Democrat who recently won the Pennsylvania special election). Further, for most folks who are anti-gun, it’s not a huge issue for them on their personal scale. They don’t own guns, so the ability to have one or not have one doesn’t motivate them much. Gun owners, however, stand to lose, and they vote, in numbers. Especially in the swing states. Guns are a big thing in Pennsylvania or Ohio or Wisconsin. Attack them at your peril. The D problem, however, is that their funding doesn’t come from Pennsylvania or Ohio or Wisconsin. It comes from California and New York. The reason Pelosi is still in charge of House Ds, even after the 2016 disaster, is simple: She is a proven moneymaker. Thus in order to get campaign money, they must take positions which do not necessarily fly well in the swing states.

Similarly, the Democrat vote’s position on Abortion is a lot more split than many people assume. There are a lot of very religious Democrat voters, it’s not just a Bible Belt thing. Bear in mind that California, as liberal a State as a whole as they come, passed Prop 8 in referendum, putting a prohibition on gay marriage into the Constitution, in the same election that Obama won the presidency by a landslide (Over 61% in California). It took a court ruling to overturn it. All those black and Hispanic voters, encouraged to the polls by the prospect of voting for Obama, while they were there took a look at the other things on the ballot,including gay marriage. If you think even US based Hispanics are not religious, you are well misguided: I’m married to one. Modern, well educated lawyer, but she still asked for a priest to bless our newborn son in hospital last month, and she is definitely low-key on the whole religion thing. (I’m not religious, I assume it would have been a sticking point if she wanted to make an issue of it).

If they want to encourage people who normally vote for them to vote for them more, they probably should not use as a motivating strategy subjects which a large proportion of that populace actively oppose.

Plus, to be frank, the evidence suggest that it's Republican congressional members that are behind much of the gerrymandering in the first place. There are some examples of Democrats redrawing the map to suit them, but most of the more egregious examples - such as the 7th - were caused by Republicans (though absolutely open to correction because it's a subject I'm only passingly aware of).

Districts are drawn up by the States, not congressional members. Both sides are well guilty of it. Arnie did several great things for California voters. One was supporting the open primary, the other was getting an independent redistricting committee on the referendum ballot, which we passed. California under Democrat control was gerrymandered to hell and back. I believe the current title for “most insanely gerrymandered district” in the US is Illinois’s 4th, Democrat drawn. Second worst is probably Republican, and so on down the line.

jooksavage

As I said last week, my concern about the Singapore summit was that Trump was going to start defending his deal to the hilt, even if it meant giving concessions to NK. It's already started: he's making claims about de-nuclearization though his own officials say theres no indication of this since last week.

Nox

listermint wrote: »

These things are extremely purposeful that jacket served a purpose. It was designed to antagonise and get a rise. For what end I'm not sure.perhaps it was for trumps base so they could get off on the outrage and reaffirm that all those liberals out there will go crazy over a jacket look how pc they want you to be.

There's no accident here. It's by design

Correct. It was by design. And the libs had the meaning go right over their heads in trying to figure it out. Melania buys a $40 dollar coat at an ordinary store and the fashion police go apoplectic looking for the deep hidden meaning of life in a simple statement wherein she says that she doesn't care about what they think on how she dresses. Love that lady.

Nox

Corkblowin wrote: »

Nox wrote: »

Try going to a law court sometime and listen to the crying by the guilty and/or their families. Almost anyone can cry on demand.

Is that you Ann?

No. She is far better looking and more intelligent than I. And looking at this cheap statement … she outclasses you as well.

RIGOLO

And in more good news for the Trump Presidency, MSM news outlet CNBC are reporting a poll by GS that says the chances of a 'Blue Wave' sweeping the mid-terms are receding . Theres no chance of a Senate takeover and the likelihood of a House swwep for the Democrats are diminishing also, gone from a 32% chance to a 44% chance. Its still a chance but obviously trending in the wrong direction. As I said 2 weeks ago, there was no sign of the mythical 'blue wave' in the California Primaries, and here is further confirmation.
Without house control that impeachment is looking further and further off , and 2020 DT term 2 is looking more and more likely.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/goldman-sachs-chances-of-a-democrat-blue-wave-in-november-are-diminishing.html?recirc=taboolainternal

All this talk of flipping, perhaps Peter Strzok will 'flip' now that his own organisation the FBI have 'walked' him out of the building pending further investigations. He has also had his security clearance removed, all on this on foot of the IGs report. NPR carried this, Im surprised it wasnt mentioned earlier in this thread given is pertinence to DT, perhaps posters dont listen to NPR, its a great station well worth tuning in and supporting.
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/621621799/agent-who-sent-anti-trump-text-messages-escorted-from-fbi-building

This investigation/witchhunt into alleged Russia Trump collusion is bringing down more Democrats and HRC supporters than the intended victims, talk about an investigation backfiring on those who were supporting HRC. McCabe fired, now Strzok under investigation, NSA leaker Reality Winner (what a name) has pleaded guilty and many more have lawyered up in preparation for whats to come.
Sometimes the headlines are just sensationalist 'copy' to grab peoples attention as they rush about on their busy lives, but the real news is in the small nuggets that lie on the inside pages, like the FBI investigating their own 'Trump bashing' employees, Democratic polls trending the wrong way, Denver pulling out of hosting the DNC convention , stuff like that will tell a more true picture .

ELM327

RIGOLO wrote: »

And in more good news for the Trump Presidency, MSM news outlet CNBC are reporting a poll by GS that says the chances of a 'Blue Wave' sweeping the mid-terms are receding . Theres no chance of a Senate takeover and the likelihood of a House swwep for the Democrats are diminishing also, gone from a 32% chance to a 44% chance. Its still a chance but obviously trending in the wrong direction. As I said 2 weeks ago, there was no sign of the mythical 'blue wave' in the California Primaries, and here is further confirmation.
Without house control that impeachment is looking further and further off , and 2020 DT term 2 is looking more and more likely.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/goldman-sachs-chances-of-a-democrat-blue-wave-in-november-are-diminishing.html?recirc=taboolainternal

All this talk of flipping, perhaps Peter Strzok will 'flip' now that his own organisation the FBI have 'walked' him out of the building pending further investigations. He has also had his security clearance removed, all on this on foot of the IGs report. NPR carried this, Im surprised it wasnt mentioned earlier in this thread given is pertinence to DT, perhaps posters dont listen to NPR, its a great station well worth tuning in and supporting.
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/621621799/agent-who-sent-anti-trump-text-messages-escorted-from-fbi-building

This investigation/witchhunt into alleged Russia Trump collusion is bringing down more Democrats and HRC supporters than the intended victims, talk about an investigation backfiring on those who were supporting HRC. McCabe fired, now Strzok under investigation, NSA leaker Reality Winner (what a name) has pleaded guilty and many more have lawyered up in preparation for whats to come.
Sometimes the headlines are just sensationalist 'copy' to grab peoples attention as they rush about on their busy lives, but the real news is in the small nuggets that lie on the inside pages, like the FBI investigating their own 'Trump bashing' employees, Democratic polls trending the wrong way, Denver pulling out of hosting the DNC convention , stuff like that will tell a more true picture .

The Trump Train is rollin' to 2024-5 !
All Aboard!!!

There's no credible candidate from the democrats. They've ruled out Sanders so who is left to run?

On the republican side it would be unusual to see someone running against a sitting president. Hasn't happened in a good few years now. And I can't see anyone running.

spacecoyote

Nox wrote: »

No. She is far better looking and more intelligent than I. And looking at this cheap statement … she outclasses you as well.

I suspected you might be a troll previously, but all doubt disappeared with that statement.

Anyone who uses the terms class & intelligence in relation to Ann Coulter needs to take a long hard look at themselves (unless the terms are preceded by the words "Complete lack of...").

Nox

Apparently someone wants to start a fight. You win (in your own mind) because I won't play your game. I think you need to have a "come to Jesus session" with yourself over your own misuse of the terms 'class & intelligence in relation to Ann Coulter'. Alas that won't happen … so have a blessed day thou finder of trolls.

ECO_Mental

Nox wrote: »

Correct. It was by design. And the libs had the meaning go right over their heads in trying to figure it out. Melania buys a $40 dollar coat at an ordinary store and the fashion police go apoplectic looking for the deep hidden meaning of life in a simple statement wherein she says that she doesn't care about what they think on how she dresses. Love that lady.

The Jacket was from 2016 and it was deliberate...... Comrade Trumpski even said it himself. This is really gutter stuff So do you still "love that Lady"? Going to see innocent children separated from their parents and locked up in internment camps and she wears a jacket "I Dont care" disgusting

He says its about the media but that's Bull****

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1009916650622251009

pixelburp

Nox wrote: »

You failed to respond to the question of responsibility. Literally thousands of children were dumped on us with no parents to provide for them. I ask again … Whose responsibility is this?

Even assuming this is true - which it's not and it has been well documented and reported that the approach is a new one, to explicitly separate children from parents - are you pleading the case that their treatment and placement in cages with minimal, sub-disaster-relief care is apt, fair or even remotely humane?

Nox wrote: »

Try going to a law court sometime and listen to the crying by the guilty and/or their families. Almost anyone can cry on demand.

Wow. I guess the answer to my question then is 'yes'? If you're seriously drawing equivalence between convicted adults crying in court, and toddlers crying while sitting bewildered in cages with no clue as to what's going on, then I guess there's no discussion to be had. Like, have you even met a four year old? I suppose if a toddler bumps its head against the coffee table the response is to what - just fold your arms and tell it to man up, or something? Get a better coach?

You act like it's a zero sum game, victim blaming with abandon because it's the childrens' fault for their parents seeking a new life in the US somehow, and that we should sympathise with ICE for just trying to protect borders? Sure, do so, we all have borders to monitor - but the moral high ground was lost the moment children got chucked into ramshackle cages.

Park the sports-team politicking and just observe the humanity of the situation for goodness sake.

joe40

I was listening to Marian McKeown on Morning Ireland this morning and she was saying that there is a strong likelihood that many of the younger children that can't self identify may never be re-united with their parents. Many have been moved all over the states under the care of social services, so parents may never be able to trace them.
That is horrific, and if trump maintains his support base after this I feel very sorry for the decent Americans. For all their talk of Christian values, it will be a country and leadership facing moral collapse, .

Leroy42

Nox wrote: »

Correct. It was by design. And the libs had the meaning go right over their heads in trying to figure it out. Melania buys a $40 dollar coat at an ordinary store and the fashion police go apoplectic looking for the deep hidden meaning of life in a simple statement wherein she says that she doesn't care about what they think on how she dresses. Love that lady.

Really? Because Trump has come out and said that it was a protest against fake news.

Now, do you really think it beholds the FLOTUS to use a visit to vulnerable children as a vehicle to air her own grievances against the media?

And if it was, surely even you can see that it was poorly advised and a mistake?

Christy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Nox wrote: »

Correct. It was by design. And the libs had the meaning go right over their heads in trying to figure it out. Melania buys a $40 dollar coat at an ordinary store and the fashion police go apoplectic looking for the deep hidden meaning of life in a simple statement wherein she says that she doesn't care about what they think on how she dresses. Love that lady.

Really? Because Trump has come out and said that it was a protest against fake news.

Now, do you really think it beholds the FLOTUS to use a visit to vulnerable children as a vehicle to air her own grievances against the media?

And if it was, surely even you can see that it was poorly advised and a mistake?

To be fair Trump always lies so who knows. However she knew where she was going. She could have worn it at any other event and didn't. She wore it visiting those her husband has hurt.

Realistically we have had this from the campaign. How many times did we have people claim Trump meant something different from what Trump actually said. It is the beauty of Trump, you can sub in whatever you want.

Leroy42

So RIGOLO, you seem to have deemed the investigation as a witch hunt.

On what basis, legally, have you decided that position.

For myself, I have no idea what the outcome is going to actually be. I have my suspicions, but they are based on the coverage I have read and putting together the various strands. But I don't have any insider knowledge so I could be totally wrong.

What I do have though, is a faith in the justice system, because without that how can we be sure than anyone convicted of anything has been treated fairly? I have yet to be shown and proof that this is a witch-hunt, even the Trump Tower meeting and Trump attempt to cover that up is enough to warrant some for of investigation.

It just seems you are very sure that it is all false and not worth the effort and I would be interested in trying to understand how you have come to this conclusion yet the courts and the political system seemed to have failed to prove that.

mattser

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Melanie sez "me no so really god at seeing ze eeng!isch, tovarisxch...me not see vich vords it sez on cote.... Me just thinks she sez mek ze merikies grate egen...so very sorrie..."

Pathetic and juvenile. You really are desperate for for a laugh.

Gwen Cooper

Any chance Donnie got Melania to wear that jacket to shift the negative attention he's getting from detaining the children to her?

ameathdub

Maybe this sad situation will change the opinions of some of the "quiet" Americans that supported him. For many people this episode involving separation of family members could be a step to far even for his supporters - maybe this could be a moment in history similar to George Bush and the way his administration handled Catriona response? But I also wonder if we hear all of the details about this in a fair way and if the media are treating the issue fairly - it just seems so bad to be true - or maybe I am just wanting to believe people cannot behave this way in a civilised society!

Leroy42

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

Any chance Donnie got Melania to wear that jacket to shift the negative attention he's getting from detaining the children to her?

According to Trump himself, yes. It was part of a protest against fake news. So it was a decision made within the WH (I would have thought that a FLOTUS would need to check before making such a political statement at such a sensitive time).

And even if she didn't Trump has defended her so one can only surmise that he agrees.

Water John

Sadly, people can behave very badly. They use, I was just doing my job, to satisfy their concscience.
Hope its a turning point for enough people to make the difference.

weisses

Leroy42 wrote: »

So RIGOLO, you seem to have deemed the investigation as a witch hunt.

On what basis, legally, have you decided that position.

Don't waste any breath getting an answer or something even remotely resembling an actual discussion

8mv

joe40 wrote: »

I was listening to Marian McKeown on Morning Ireland this morning and she was saying that there is a strong likelihood that many of the younger children that can't self identify may never be re-united with their parents. Many have been moved all over the states under the care of social services, so parents may never be able to trace them.
That is horrific, and if trump maintains his support base after this I feel very sorry for the decent Americans. For all their talk of Christian values, it will be a country and leadership facing moral collapse, .

That interview was very upsetting. Surely US customs officials have documented where and who they have separated?

Leroy42

8mv wrote: »

That interview was very upsetting. On behalf of the company I work for, I ship stuff all over the world, including to our office in the US. If I can keep track of a box of equipment, surely to **** the US border officials can document the origin and movements of a child?

Well yes, but you need to think about them as a child first.

One of the central tenants to Trump immigration policy is that illegals are not equal. They are animals, infesting America. They are crime gangs, MS-13 members, bringing nothing but rape and drugs and crime.

If you are told that often enough that you start to think that whatever you give these animals is better than they deserve. Would you think holding feral dogs in cages is cruel? No, well that is how some Americans now view these people. And led by the CiC with his constant denigration of them.

And that is the real problem with Trump. Its not building the wall, or stricter border controls. All countries have some for of them. It is the derogatory language, it is the inflaming of hatred, it is the appeal to ignorance, fear and hatred.