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John Leslie Trial - Accused of touching woman's bum in nightclub

Olsky

In my opinion the puritanism and sexual repression demanded by the #metoo movement has begun to exceed anything achieved by the catholic church at the height of their powers or the victorian puritans centuries ago. Having largely succeeded in getting rid of any flirting or physical contact "in the workplace" they have now turned their attention to "inappropriate" touching in nightclubs. Any like any orthodoxy people are terrified of challenging it. Read the court report on the trial below and give your opinion.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/18/john-leslie-goes-trial-accused-nightclub-sex-assault/

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Your Face

Yet the electricity is still on.

Chaos Tourist

Was the Cheeky Girls song playing in the nightclub?

nullzero

What qualifies somebody as a "minor contributor" when the inside of a woman's underpants are concerned?

Brae100

There's more to this. There's possibly very serious previous.

Conservatory

He went for it she said no chance bucko. It’s not like he ran out from under a park bench and pulled at her hoop. He misread a few signals.

Every teenage boy in the country has tried to put his hands down a girls trousers only for her to grab the hand and put it somewhere less fun. Should we lock them all up?

nullzero

Brae100 wrote: »

There's more to this. There's possibly very serious previous.

Previous?

Conservatory

Brae100 wrote: »

There's more to this. There's possibly very serious previous.

Oh right.

There’s more to this somebody might have previously done something.

odyssey06

This is like trying to get Al Capone for tax evasion?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrika_Jonsson#Autobiography_and_John_Leslie_scandal

[Deleted User]

Olsky wrote: »

In my opinion the puritanism and sexual repression demanded by the #metoo movement has begun to exceed anything achieved by the catholic church at the height of their powers or the victorian puritans centuries ago. Having largely succeeded in getting rid of any flirting or physical contact "in the workplace" they have now turned their attention to "inappropriate" touching in nightclubs. Any like any orthodoxy people are terrified of challenging it. Read the court report on the trial below and give your opinion.

If you can't tell the difference between sexual assault and flirting, then maybe it's indeed for the best that you don't do either.

Conservatory

odyssey06 wrote: »

This is like trying to get Al Capone for tax evasion?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrika_Jonsson#Autobiography_and_John_Leslie_scandal

Ulrika has a terrible time with every man that left her didn’t she.

Olsky

bluewolf wrote: »

If you can't tell the difference between sexual assault and flirting, then maybe it's indeed for the best that you don't do either.

There is no objective difference according to #metoo orthodoxy.

The subjective interpretation of the woman is what is to be used to decide on whether punishment is merited.

Oasis1974

That guy was close friends with Jimmy Saville its been alleged many weekends they spent in that Looney bin hospital in Leeds. Dirty Den also named and shamed is being brought back from the dead so to speak. Watch this space.

nullzero

bluewolf wrote: »

If you can't tell the difference between sexual assault and flirting, then maybe it's indeed for the best that you don't do either.

From the description he was knocked back immediately, it doesn't sound like he made a concerted effort to rape this woman or assault her in any demonstrable manner. Yes he should have kept his hands to himself but men and women touch each other in inappropriate ways in nightclubs all the time.
In this case the definition of sexual assault is being taken to an extreme. He needed to be told to keep his hands to himself and if he had continued his behavior then he would have been guilty of harassment. We're not talking about flirting of sexual assault here, we're talking about somebody reading a situation incorrectly. Frankly statements like yours are not helpful in clarifying situations like this. When a man you care about is accused incorrectly of sexually assaulting a woman you may feel differently.
Situations like this serve to set divisions between men and women at a point in time when we should be moving beyond such petty nonsense to real equality.

Conservatory

Oasis1974 wrote: »

That guy was close friends with Jimmy Saville its been alleged many weekends they spent in that Looney bin hospital in Leeds. Dirty Den also named and shamed is being brought back from the dead so to speak. Watch this space.

Is this how trials work now? Just make stuff up in the hope the jury see it?

Olsky

Brae100 wrote: »

There's possibly very serious previous.

odyssey06 wrote: »

This is like trying to get Al Capone for tax evasion?

Oasis1974 wrote: »

That guy was close friends with Jimmy Saville

Agree he's not the nicest character. How about though we stick to the facts of the case. He is on trial for allegedly touching a woman's bum in a nightclub.

sabat

Why would you choose Leslie as your stage name?

Ipso

Oasis1974 wrote: »

That guy was close friends with Jimmy Saville its been alleged many weekends they spent in that Looney bin hospital in Leeds. Dirty Den also named and shamed is being brought back from the dead so to speak. Watch this space.

There were some murders in 1974 and you have that year in your username, care to explain yourself?

Conservatory

sabat wrote: »

Why would you choose Leslie as your stage name?

According to people in Germany close friends of Hitler called themselves Leslie. The facts are coming out soon but not now.

soups05

#metoo takes o a different light when you realise that the symbol #, commonly called hashtag was once known as the pound symbol.

but pound me too has a totally different connotation to it.

odyssey06

Olsky wrote: »

Agree he's not the nicest character. How about though we stick to the facts of the case. He is on trial for allegedly touching a woman's bum in a nightclub.

Taking a step back from that, I think people are a little dubious and thinking that if this was some random Joe Bloggs this might not have ended up in court.

So he is, and isn't, on trial for that.

And I know jury members are supposed to ignore rumours about past conduct but... well, will they?

Oasis1974

Ipso wrote: »

There were some murders in 1974 and you have that year in your username, care to explain yourself?

Its in remembrance of Coal Mining Strike in blighty actually the auld fellow was working there.

soiseztomabel

I wonder will Abi Titmuss weight in...

Tom Mann Centuria

No idea of his guilt or innocence in this, but I do know his filming of his famous " home movie" was substandard.

Tom Mann Centuria

No idea of his guilt or innocence in this, but I do know his filming of his famous " home movie" was substandard. A crime against pornography.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Oasis1974 wrote: »

Its in remembrance of Coal Mining Strike in blighty actually the auld fellow was working there.

Your auld fella was working in the mines during the strike?
Scab.

Olsky

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

No idea of his guilt or innocence in this, but .....

The question is though, should touching a woman's bottom after she has asked you to dance with her in a nightclub be a criminal offence worthy of a trial by jury and a custodial sentence for sexual assault.

The priests and nuns of auld Ireland would be very proud and envious of the achievements of #metoo

.

soiseztomabel

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

No idea of his guilt or innocence in this, but I do know his filming of his famous " home movie" was substandard. A crime against pornography.

Seconded .....Woeful.

kylith

Here's an idea: check if it's ok before putting your hand down someone's underwear.

AllForIt

In the current climate NOW is the best time to bring retrospective cases to court.

I wonder what kind of nightclub is was btw. I recall Paul Daniels (the deceased magician) on some TV show I can't recall what it was, but he was taken to a nightclub and he said he hated those sorts of places - it's just a pick up joint - a dive. I think he understood what the whole place was about and he's right.

I would have though touching someone on the bum in a dive would be on the lower end of the spectrum of what goes on in those types of places. Now, it may have been some classy joint - but believe me a classy joint can still be a dive. No one really goes to nightclubs to listen to pumping music for hours on end.

Paddy Cow

Olsky wrote: »

The question is though, should touching a woman's bottom after she has asked you to dance with her in a nightclub be a criminal offence worthy of a trial by jury and a custodial sentence for sexual assault.

The priests and nuns of auld Ireland would be very proud and envious of the achievements of #metoo

.

No it shouldn't. It's ridiculous the amount of money that will have been spent on this. Man and woman dance together intimately in nightclub. Man touches woman's bottom. Woman breaks away from dancing and leaves him. End of situation. Now if he had acted aggressive and started pawing her or trying to French kiss her after she made it clear she wasn't interest, that would be different.

It's nonsense like this that is going to do more harm to victims than good. If his name wasn't John Leslie would it have even warranted police intervention after the woman spoke to the bouncers? If we believe everything in the op, then the woman's story doesn't add up. She said her friend pulled her away but CCTV doesn't support this. How did this even end up in court?