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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

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Christy42

Deleted User wrote: »

pixelburp wrote: »

Haven't we been here before though? By any normal metric of politics, 90% of Trumps behaviour would have had him booted out ages ago(imagine May or Varadker behaving in a fraction of this manner, it's kinda hilarious to imagine May being caught on a hot mic, leering over some hot young PA) be it for gross indecency or obvious ignorance over basic tenets of his job. Yet here we are, he's still surviving, inexplicably, with his supporters now more burrowed in and radical than ever (IIRC even Nixon commanded approx. 35% support around the time of his resignation).

Every now and then I'll see a clip from sometime in the last 18 months (it's been that long already) and be like "Oh yeah, all that stuff happened." Usually in the space of a week. It's absolutely mental that it's still going on but normal rules don't apply.

I don't know. I can't think of anything Trump has done that compares.

Racist talks or the passport conspiracy are one thing but this is a step above. That includes the pay for play stuff, enriching Mar a lago, saying stupid stuff... Most of what he has done is greedy or stupidity. Even not condemning nazis was just words. I mean these were all bad things but this is a different level for me.
Actively going after kids seems to be pretty bad. This is actively malicious.

I don't know if this will bring him down, plenty support regardless of what he does and Republicans are terrified of those people. However I can't imagine inhumane and barbaric treatment of kids and toddlers won't be repeatably brought up against him.

aloyisious

I'm wondering when the "moral majority" heads in the Admin will see the lawful and biblical policy they are using as a weapon is silly, and who will be nominated to take the blame for the Admin. The person most outspoken [this is the law and the basis for it is in the bible] is the AG, manifest destiny rides again. With Ann Coulter apparently rowing in behind the Admin again, after walking away from Don some 2 months ago, it might give the Admin the idea that it can ride out the latest storm with Don's lies that the Dem's are the reason HE and HIS Admin are using the policy, with the blessing of HIS Admin senior legal advisor.

aloyisious

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So the governors or Maryland and Massachusetts will remove their national guard troops from the southern border because of the situation there.

21 attorneys general have written to Jeff sessions and the DHS secretary asking them to stop the separation of kids from parents.

The united methodists which Jeff sessions is a member of, have brought "church changes" against him for his use of the bible to justify the policy( and it is a policy it's not a law doing this) which may change the AGs mind.

Nothing will change because trump doesn't see there being an issue. He is convinced it's a democratic law so he won't change.

Also, the OIG report in the Hillary Clinton mess that james comey caused is being used to claim there was no collision(the fact it wasn't looking for collusion with trump and Russian) is telling. I heard a clip of him taking about this to the media from last Friday. "Most importantly" and "me" were the points that trump cares about.

The "amusing" thing is about the way Don used the report to say he was cleared of any blame and at the same time slammed the report for it's failings.

Re the National Guard units you mentioned, it's possible for the Admin to "federalize" the N.G units there for it's use though that might be solely for foreign theatre, and not [internal] home, use itself. I know the state Governors can call up the Guard to handle internal civil unrest etc.

Leroy42

aloyisious wrote: »

I'm wondering when the "moral majority" heads in the Admin will see the lawful and biblical policy they are using as a weapon is silly, and who will be nominated to take the blame for the Admin. The person most outspoken [this is the law and the basis for it is in the bible] is the AG, manifest destiny rides again. With Ann Coulter apparently rowing in behind the Admin again, after walking away from Don some 2 months ago, it might give the Admin the idea that it can ride out the latest storm with Don's lies that the Dem's are the reason HE and HIS Admin are using the policy, with the blessing of HIS Admin senior legal advisor.

The admin would be right in thinking they can ride this out.

It seems that people are either unwilling or unable to appreciate that this is what a large portion of America wants. Trumps numbers are holding (going up slightly I think), the GOP numbers are pretty good given they are on top.

There won't be any marches on the street about this. There won't be any strikes or sit-outs. And in the main those that would vote for the GOP will continue to do so and those that would vote DNC will continue to do so.

Trump is staying true to his word, he is shaking up how the world sees America, he is tackling immigration. The only surprise is that many of us just didn't appreciate just how serious it all was. We still see him as a passing phase. Maybe impeachment, but certainly he will be voted out.

But the more that happens, the more it becomes obvious that whatever happens to Trump himself this is the new US. Palin led the initial charge, but was really just too amateur to pull it off. Trump got that message and distilled it down, and put the gold icing on top to give it an air of credibility.

But he will eventually be replaced by someone else, and that someone will have to offer to the voters what they want, and what they want is clearly a version of the US that Trump is selling.

Merkel was right, we can no longer depend on the US. That's a scary thought, as many of us have grown up and lived with the US being both the dominant, and from a western POV, the most benign of forces. They stood for truth, justice, work hard and progress.

But behind the facade was a nation crumbling over resentment and fear. With no real enemies they needed to create enemies. And that has led to fear. I get the feeling that many in America feel the world is a terrifying place. If its not some ISIS terrorist living down the street, its the black man, or the Mexican, or the liberals with their equality and flowers and godlessness. The fact that they accept continued mass shootings as simply a way of life, that schoolkids should be trained in evacuation and survival skills as if they are in a war zone when in fact they are living during some of the most peaceful times in world history. The fact the despite the massive amounts spent on the military, the massive amounts spend on law enforcement, I would wager that the majority of Americans feel vulnerable and scared.

But whatever is causing it, it is not going away anytime soon. And the sooner the rest of the world wakes up to the fact the better. But that requires that we start to engage with the likes of China and Russia. That we move away from what has been the situation for many years and look to no longer lean on the US.

Water John

Think you are wrong. There will be mass protest.

josip

Water John wrote: »

Think you are wrong. There will be mass protest.

I doubt it.
A lot of Americans are either ok or can accept what's happening to the children.
For those who are likely to complain, Trump will simply flood the news feed with more events and soundbites over the coming weeks.
Nobody in the US will remember by the 4th of July.

ARNOLD J RIMMER

Water John wrote: »

Think you are wrong. There will be mass protest.

Not a hope

Blowfish

National protests have already been announced for June 30th: https://www.thecut.com/2018/06/protest-trump-immigrant-families-policy-dc.html

ARNOLD J RIMMER

Blowfish wrote: »

National protests have already been announced for June 30th: https://www.thecut.com/2018/06/protest-trump-immigrant-families-policy-dc.html

Which will have a large majority of immigrants making up the numbers

I don't believe the average American are concerned enough to protest about this no matter which side of politics they sit

Kaizersoze81

ARNOLD J RIMMER wrote: »

I don't believe the average American are concerned enough to protest about this no matter which side of politics they sit

Unfortunately I think you’re right. Going by the reactions to the below picture:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgDxjq6V4AEl9lr.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgDxjq7VMAIRF5O.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgDxjq7U0AQ4c3O.jpg

Genuinely scary times we’re living in. Trump today described immigrants as ‘infesting’ the country. A tactic similar to the Nazis used to dehumanize the Jews.

Danzy

ARNOLD J RIMMER wrote: »

Which will have a large majority of immigrants making up the numbers

I don't believe the average American are concerned enough to protest about this no matter which side of politics they sit

Immigrants tend to have stricter views on migration than native activists, they tend to believe they went through the channels so why should others not, that they are the ones who will face the competition and the race to the bottom rather than the well to do native activists.

Leroy42

Danzy wrote: »

Immigrants tend to have stricter views on migration than native activists, they tend to believe they went through the channels so why should others not, that they are the ones who will face the competition and the race to the bottom rather than the well to do native activists.

But this isn't about immigration, this is about using children as political capital to try to get want he wants.

Trump has made it clear that he doesn't even like this, he continues to blame the DNC for it. yet he not prepared to do anything about it until such time as he gets what he wants.

Immigration has nothing to do with locking children in cages.

Calina

Cohen apparently has a new lawyer.

everlast75

Calina wrote: »

Cohen apparently has a new lawyer.

He will need one that will work for free.

I'm guessing Rudi????

Leroy42

Apparently Giuliani has been interviewed by the FBI in relation to his statements to the media in October 2016 in relation to upcoming info on HC. He said at the time that he had talked with FBI agents. He has sinced changed his story to say it was retired, but he has failed to publicly state where they got any intel.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/GarrettHaake/status/1009138602520039424?s=19

So here ya go.

This is precedent. A consensus from the GOP against Trump*. As i said, this policy is toxic and the politicians are starting to worry

*the dems already have a bill ready to sign. The GOP just don't want to grant the moral victory to them

Water John

How many issues will the GOP try to tie into any Bill? What will DT ask them to include when he meets them tomorrow?

aloyisious

If senior US industry bosses start saying the policy of separating children from their parents or stand-in guardians at the border and taking them into federal custody won't oblige Don to take the protest seriously, I don't know what will.

It may be that the GOP leadership is paying more attention to feedback from within the US than Don is capable of. Don is the head of the Admin and own's responsibility for all it does under his imprimatur. Tim Cook of the Apple Corp has stated his opposition to the policy. If others of his standing follow his lead, then there might be a change in policy.

Manic Moran

aloyisious wrote: »

Re the National Guard units you mentioned, it's possible for the Admin to "federalize" the N.G units there for it's use though that might be solely for foreign theatre, and not [internal] home, use itself. I know the state Governors can call up the Guard to handle internal civil unrest etc.

There are a number of caveats which may be necessary, but it has been done. The most famous example being the during the integration of schools, where the governor of a state mobilized the Guard to enforce segregation, then the Feds federalised them and the Guard was just as diligent following their new orders about integration.

I would find it unlikely that the Feds would federalize Guard units over this, though.

Unfortunately I think you’re right. Going by the reactions to the below picture:

There are, unfortunately, assholes everywhere. I’m sure the lads at Stormfront.ie are just as mocking. The irony is that they are being had, the photo was taken at Dallas City Hall.

Christy42

aloyisious wrote: »

If senior US industry bosses start saying the policy of separating children from their parents or stand-in guardians at the border and taking them into federal custody won't oblige Don to take the protest seriously, I don't know what will.

It may be that the GOP leadership is paying more attention to feedback from within the US than Don is capable of. Don is the head of the Admin and own's responsibility for all it does under his imprimatur. Tim Cook of the Apple Corp has stated his opposition to the policy. If others of his standing follow his lead, then there might be a change in policy.

I am sure if they manage it Don will take credit for making the Democrats work with the Republicans!

Still it shows some humanity in that party if they fight back against these horrors.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1009181677044846592?s=19

What was rumoured is now confirmed.

The sooner the Mueller investigation/mid terms puts a silver bullet through the heart of this administration the better.

Kermit.de.frog

The US has been taken over by a cabal and a actual wannabe dictator. Trump makes no secret of it.

I remember the unsubtle warnings Obama was giving about Trump. And it was not about party politics.

Americans were warned that Trump as an individual was not fit to be President of the United States.

All of this will only get worse. It's not going to get better.

People thought it was humorous at the beginning and I suppose it was. We are getting beyond the point of novel comedy at this stage where this imbecile is going to do real damage to America and the wider world.

It's damage limitation now.

pixelburp

Even if they claim it's over Israel that they're leaving, to remove yourself from the UN Human Rights Council, during a week when global outrage ferments over 100s of children being caged en masse, is such spectacularly bad optics and PR it's farcical to seriously suggest the clowns in charge know what they're doing.

I mean sure, I'm worried at the slow slide of democracy in parts of the Western world, but blimey charley I don't think Trump and pals are the smartest. They're morons, out of their depth and inept at every move.

Water John

Kermit, Obama's warning has parallels for me in Fitzgerald making a similar point about Haughey in Ireland in the 1980s. Some conveniently said these comments were, party political, when they were not in either case.
Both Haughey and Trump being unfit for the highest political office in a country.

BonnieSituation

Water John wrote: »

Kermit, Obama's warning has parallels for me in Fitzgerald making a similar point about Haughey in Ireland in the 1980s. Some conveniently said these comments were, party political, when they were not in either case.
Both Haughey and Trump being unfit for the highest political office in a country.

Ah Garrett the Good...

How Trumpian of CJ.

Water John

Trump and Haughey, both corrupt. Lack of respect for the democratic process, populists.

Rjd2

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not very pleasantly, obviously.

But the policy is simple enough. Of all the various options listed, the one which is not listed is the ability for the arrested parent to retain the child. Policies usually have an exemption for newborns.

Out of mild curiousity, what is the policy of Gardai when arresting an immigrant, or a sole parent? Is the child taken to the jail cell with the parent?

Have you studied the Cruz proposals? They seem to be favoured by many Republicans online. David French of the NR seems very receptive.

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1008835703931842560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftownhall.com%2Ftipsheet%2Fguybenson%2F2018%2F06%2F19%2Fsensible-ted-cruzs-good-plan-to-alleviate-child-separation-crisis-n2492229

Kermit.de.frog

pixelburp wrote: »

Even if they claim it's over Israel that they're leaving, to remove yourself from the UN Human Rights Council, during a week when global outrage ferments over 100s of children being caged en masse, is such spectacularly bad optics and PR it's farcical to seriously suggest the clowns in charge know what they're doing.

I mean sure, I'm worried at the slow slide of democracy in parts of the Western world, but blimey charley I don't think Trump and pals are the smartest. They're morons, out of their depth and inept at every move.

Obama's speech on the matter of Trump's fitness undoubtedly with information and feedback from intelligence services and state security.

An appeal for the people to use their heads that was not heeded. Everybody needs to listen to what Obama is saying here - he is very concise and careful but gets to the point. Trump is unfit (politically correct for unstable).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC4isZKWePQ

Manic Moran

Rjd2 wrote: »

Have you studied the Cruz proposals? They seem to be favoured by many Republicans online. David French of the NR seems very receptive.

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1008835703931842560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftownhall.com%2Ftipsheet%2Fguybenson%2F2018%2F06%2F19%2Fsensible-ted-cruzs-good-plan-to-alleviate-child-separation-crisis-n2492229

Can't say I have. Doesn't seem that problematic, note how it increases the budget to allow the continuation of the zero tolerance policy. Previous administrations have had concerns that there simply was no support infrastructure to do it. So the border is more rigidly policed, families aren't separated, Trump still wins.

RIGOLO

The hypocrisy is in full flow today .
All this whatabout the children, yet very few would support Trumps fight against the MS-13 gangs that some of these families are fleeing, all because well he wasnt 'our gal' HRC.

And the hypocrisy is summed up in Simon Coveneys attack on the US Administration border policy, the same Simon Coveney who supports taking tax payers money to fund banks so they can sell mortgage loans to hedge funds that can then evict families from a stable home environment and put them onto the streets forcing more tax payer money be spent to house these people in hotels owned by party benefactors, hedge funds and wealthy elites rock stars. Lets party on with our dentention centres in Butlins and the nouveau millionaires and rising rents and homeless crisis in Irl., whilst taking the high moral ground condeming another nations attempts to deal with their immigration issue

HYPOCRISY ... another result of the law of unintended consequences.. Trumps presidency and its policies (right or wrong) have exposed the hypocrisy must people, who would see themselves as the antithises of POTUS , are knee deep in .