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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

Please ensure that you are familiar with the charter before posting.

Thanks.

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[Deleted User]

20Cent wrote: »

Was wondering why people were making a big deal about his seperate but equal comment looked it up.

Separate but equal was a legal doctrine in United States constitutional law according to which racial segregation did not violate the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, adopted

Ffs.

Maybe I was being too harsh on him, I assumed everyone on this thread would know what it meant. :pac:

eagle eye wrote: »

Just on Trump's intelligence.

A number of years ago, maybe 10 or 12 he was on the WWE as it is known these days. He started out as a heel(bad guy) and then turned into the enemy of the owner Vince McMahon who was a heel which made him a great guy. I heard about it and became intrigued as to why Trump was doing this. It ended up being billed the battle of the billionaires. He was getting to stroke his ego for sure with this but I felt there had to be something more to it.

During the election I wondered to myself if this was a long running grand plan. I believe it was because a lot of the electorate he was appealing to in the election would be similar types to the adults who attend WWE events. They are not very smart and a lot of them are what I'd call hicks.

He learned how to appeal to them while performing an act on WWE. It's funny and it's also very smart.

Have you seen Get Me Roger Stone? Trump should probably get 20% credit for his election, the rest going to others. Don't get me wrong, he would've only been a few hundred thousand votes spread over 5/6 states short without that but the dirt in the background is what got him over the line.

EdgeCase

The sad reality is that he does seem to equate running a country to reality TV and WWE.

He's operating in the real world now.

Christy42

His decision to run for president seems to be when Obama highlighted his idiocy and racism by making a mockery of him at the correspondence dinner over the passport idiocy.

On to the topic at hand people are attempting to justify throwing children in over crowded cages because their parents wanted a better life for them. **** some are arguing that a man who intensely believed love thy neighbour is even for this barbarity.

Some are saying holding these kids like this as political hostages to use as a bargaining chip against those with a moral concience is justified.

**** humanity. Even pretending to support this as a troll would be horrific.

It won't hurt Trump. This is a nation that regularly moves on from its kids being shot at schools. It will move on from this to the next Trump scandal (did I hear escalating the trade war) and do basically nothing. I only hope I am wrong.

BabyCheeses

jooksavage wrote: »

The solipsism is strong with anyone who can argue with a straight face that growing up in a first world country with all its attendant benefits isn't a privilege. We're living through an unprecedented period of peace in a western democracy. By any historical and geo-political standards we're the trust fund douchebags who don't know how good we have it.

Especially when getting a free ride into a private school!

My guess it comes down to insecurity, I've done well in my life but I know if I didn't get grants, wasn't living in the right place, or in the right time my life wouldn't be as good as it is now. It doesn't make you lesser for having all of that, it just means that some people for reasons outside of their own control might not have had those options.

Professor Moriarty

ELM327 wrote: »

Trump was winning the election before that in the polls.
But I do agree, the deplorables comment was one of the things that turned the tide to a Trump victory.

Well he isnt. There's no metric that measures that.

The only metric is re-election in 2020.

And possibly a nobel peace prize if the deal in N Korea comes through.
If Mr Hussein Obama was in the running for one, DT must be a dead cert for sure.

How to blow your credibility in one easy lesson.

spacecoyote

eagle eye wrote: »

Just on Trump's intelligence.

A number of years ago, maybe 10 or 12 he was on the WWE as it is known these days. He started out as a heel(bad guy) and then turned into the enemy of the owner Vince McMahon who was a heel which made him a great guy. I heard about it and became intrigued as to why Trump was doing this. It ended up being billed the battle of the billionaires. He was getting to stroke his ego for sure with this but I felt there had to be something more to it.

During the election I wondered to myself if this was a long running grand plan. I believe it was because a lot of the electorate he was appealing to in the election would be similar types to the adults who attend WWE events. They are not very smart and a lot of them are what I'd call hicks.

He learned how to appeal to them while performing an act on WWE. It's funny and it's also very smart.

It's very evident they learned a lot from that experience.

The repeated chanting "Lock Her Up!"

The nicknames "Crooked Hilary"

All plays well to a certain group of the population. I'm pretty sure that Bannon picked up on and pushed a lot of this

Professor Moriarty

eagle eye wrote: »

Just on Trump's intelligence.

A number of years ago, maybe 10 or 12 he was on the WWE as it is known these days. He started out as a heel(bad guy) and then turned into the enemy of the owner Vince McMahon who was a heel which made him a great guy. I heard about it and became intrigued as to why Trump was doing this. It ended up being billed the battle of the billionaires. He was getting to stroke his ego for sure with this but I felt there had to be something more to it.

During the election I wondered to myself if this was a long running grand plan. I believe it was because a lot of the electorate he was appealing to in the election would be similar types to the adults who attend WWE events. They are not very smart and a lot of them are what I'd call hicks.

He learned how to appeal to them while performing an act on WWE. It's funny and it's also very smart.

Yeah. If The Donald's daddy wasn't a billionaire who gave him an elitist and privileged upbringing, set him up with loans, went guarantor for other loans, bailed him out of bankruptcy and bequeathed him millions, then The Donald would be cleaning dog crap off the streets of New York. But look, keep believing.

Danzy

Trump marks the ending of the Reaganite era of the Republican Party, when NeoLiberalism and Libertarian thinking were fetished. While he has strong leanings in that regard his take on illegal immigration and things like scrapping the TTIP are not conducive for the free market and not popular on Wall St.

Bernie Sanders is the only prominent also ran/contender for the top job in the last 40 years who would have sunk TTIP and their views on migration and border control are not that different in intent, whether Bernie would act on it though, unlikely.

Migration surged in America from the Reagan era on, they were all connected, more liberal migration was part of the bullish free market in the 80s and the Neoliberal triumphalism of the 90s, now that it became a damaged economic system, there is a push back politically.

That push back is not nice to look at but it is self inflicted and many Left activists and campaigners grew fat and wealthy off globalization/Neoliberalism while preaching solidarity and class politics while their voters fell.

MadYaker

If people think that kids being separated from their parents in put in cages is going to make the republicans act they are wrong. What did they do after a load of primary school kids were slaughtered in their classrooms like animals? Nothing. Not only did they do nothing they actively fought anyone who tried to bring about reform. This will have moved out of the news cycle by the end of this week at the latest and we’ll all be talking about the next scandal.

Danzy

eagle eye wrote: »

Just on Trump's intelligence.

A number of years ago, maybe 10 or 12 he was on the WWE as it is known these days. He started out as a heel(bad guy) and then turned into the enemy of the owner Vince McMahon who was a heel which made him a great guy. I heard about it and became intrigued as to why Trump was doing this. It ended up being billed the battle of the billionaires. He was getting to stroke his ego for sure with this but I felt there had to be something more to it.

During the election I wondered to myself if this was a long running grand plan. I believe it was because a lot of the electorate he was appealing to in the election would be similar types to the adults who attend WWE events. They are not very smart and a lot of them are what I'd call hicks.

He learned how to appeal to them while performing an act on WWE. It's funny and it's also very smart.

Your views are typical of many who self describe as progressive or Left today, and ye wonder why it is electoral disaster after disaster.

The Left is dying as an electoral force in most of the Western World, but especially so among the bottom half of society.

pixelburp

If there's a difference between kids being locked in cages at ICE, and the school shootings, it's surely the absence of a kingmaker like the NRA; senators such as Marco Rubio betrayed the obvious bought obsequience towards that lobby group, routinely stymying any reasonable discussion or actions taken after the latest bi-monthly School Shooting.

Many politicians, mostly republican, enjoy donations from the NRA, while it's hard to see where the vested interests might come from in this instance. The optics (and audio) alone of children locked in cages - while being used as political currency via the open lie that Democrats are causing this - are surely outrageous enough to even lickspittles such as Rubio.

Professor Moriarty

Danzy wrote: »

Your views are typical of many who self describe as progressive or Left today, and ye wonder why it is electoral disaster after disaster.

The Left is dying as an electoral force in most of the Western World, but especially so among the bottom half of society.

Seeing as you're tossing labels around, how would you describe yourself?

Christy42

Danzy wrote: »

Trump marks the ending of the Reaganite era of the Republican Party, when NeoLiberalism and Libertarian thinking were fetished. While he has strong leanings in that regard his take on illegal immigration and things like scrapping the TTIP are not conducive for the free market and not popular on Wall St.

Bernie Sanders is the only prominent also ran/contender for the top job in the last 40 years who would have sunk TTIP and their views on migration and border control are not that different in intent, whether Bernie would act on it though, unlikely.

Migration surged in America from the Reagan era on, they were all connected, more liberal migration was part of the bullish free market in the 80s and the Neoliberal triumphalism of the 90s, now that it became a damaged economic system, there is a push back politically.

That push back is not nice to look at but it is self inflicted and many Left activists and campaigners grew fat and wealthy off globalization/Neoliberalism while preaching solidarity and class politics while their voters fell.

Quite aside from the suggestion that people like the Koch's were Left wing (hey the right messed up, let's pretend they were all Left wing and that we reinvented ourselves - again).

Never mind that voters never had it so good as under the Obama years as one of the few who attempted to look after their health (Clinton being another).

If your philosophy involves torturing kids you have messed up. Can we have that as a rule of thumb?

Professor Moriarty

pixelburp wrote: »

If there's a difference between kids being locked in cages at ICE, and the school shootings, it's surely the absence of a kingmaker like the NRA; senators such as Marco Rubio betrayed the obvious bought obsequience towards that lobby group, routinely stymying any reasonable discussion or actions taken after the latest bi-monthly School Shooting.

Many politicians, mostly republican, enjoy donations from the NRA, while it's hard to see where the vested interests might come from in this instance. The optics (and audio) alone of children locked in cages - while being used as political currency via the open lie that Democrats are causing this - are surely outrageous enough to even lickspittles such as Rubio.

Apparently not. This from the Miami New Times:

But this past Saturday, after downplaying the seriousness of the child separations, Rubio also said they're actually Obama's fault.
"The Obama administration was just releasing everyone, the parents and the kids, and a significant percentage of the people they released never came back, never showed up for a hearing, never heard from them again," Rubio said. "So what the Trump Administration is doing — and the president campaigned on it — they're not going to release the adults. We're not allowed to hold the kids by law, and frankly we shouldn't. There's no family shelter capability either, so that's why this is happening."

As an aside, the article also contains this description from the AP of how the children are being detained:

Inside an old warehouse in South Texas, hundreds of children wait in a series of cages created by metal fencing. One cage had 20 children inside. Scattered about are bottles of water, bags of chips and large foil sheets intended to serve as blankets.

Danzy

Christy42 wrote: »

Quite aside from the suggestion that people like the Koch's were Left wing (hey the right messed up, let's pretend they were all Left wing and that we reinvented ourselves - again).

Never mind that voters never had it so good as under the Obama years as one of the few who attempted to look after their health (Clinton being another).

If your philosophy involves torturing kids you have messed up. Can we have that as a rule of thumb?

The Koch brothers are as far from Left wing as it is possible to be but they share a similar view on migration with much of the Left, for them it is a natural position given their Libertarian views and billions in the bank, the Left have taken a very bizarre position on migration and sold it to themselves as solidarity while it is purely only the result of Neoliberalism, only sustainable through neoliberalism and precludes most things that a Left wing person would want.

Most of the best years for Europe were built on a left perspective, as the Left today has become ao Middle Class, it has changed its concerns and goals. That is why it is collapsing as an ideology all over Europe.

This is only accelerating, especially in the last 5 years.

pixelburp

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Apparently not. This from the Miami New Times:

But this past Saturday, after downplaying the seriousness of the child separations, Rubio also said they're actually Obama's fault.
"The Obama administration was just releasing everyone, the parents and the kids, and a significant percentage of the people they released never came back, never showed up for a hearing, never heard from them again," Rubio said. "So what the Trump Administration is doing — and the president campaigned on it — they're not going to release the adults. We're not allowed to hold the kids by law, and frankly we shouldn't. There's no family shelter capability either, so that's why this is happening."

As an aside, the article also contains this description from the AP of how the children are being detained:

Inside an old warehouse in South Texas, hundreds of children wait in a series of cages created by metal fencing. One cage had 20 children inside. Scattered about are bottles of water, bags of chips and large foil sheets intended to serve as blankets.

Huh. Well, sh*t. I give up then; I'll continue to watch the reality show that is the US but clearly it has jumped the shark at this stage. Season 2018 is rubbish and unnecessarily cruel.

Professor Moriarty

pixelburp wrote: »

Huh. Well, sh*t. I give up then; I'll continue to watch the reality show that is the US but clearly it has jumped the shark at this stage. Season 2018 is rubbish and unnecessarily cruel.

If you're looking for something more realistic, may I suggest a program called Game of Thrones. The plots are less complex and the characters more believable.

Danzy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Seeing as you're tossing labels around, how would you describe yourself?

I've been called a Bennite before.

Though much of my views would have been mainstream on the Left and even the right in most of Europe pre the 80s and 90s.

That said the Left today is a very different beast to then, a stark class divide has opened up between it and its traditional base.

Professor Moriarty

Danzy wrote: »

I've been called a Bennite before.

Though much of my views would have been mainstream on the Left and even the right in most of Europe pre the 80s and 90s.

That said the Left today is a very different beast to then, a stark class divide has opened up between it and its traditional base.

Definitions such as 'Left' and 'Right' have little meaning. They are simply lazy generalisations. For example, how would you contrast and compare the 'Left' in Ireland with the 'Left' in the US?

Wanderer78

Professor Moriarty wrote:

Definitions such as 'Left' and 'Right' have little meaning. They are simply lazy generalisations. For example, how would you contrast and compare the 'Left' in Ireland with the 'Left' in the US?

Leftism, in American politics!

Professor Moriarty

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Leftism, in American politics!

Is there a 'Left' party? How many votes do they typically get?

Water John

Ann Coulter has shown herself again, to be one despicable human being.
'Child actors' FFS.

Leroy42

Trump is on a bit of a rant Twitter this morning (US time).

He just said that migrants infest a country!

To to be clear, almost everyone in the US is related to a recent immigrant. Seems the drawbridge is well and truly being pulled up and only those there now are pure.

Captain Obvious

Water John wrote: »

Ann Coulter has shown herself again, to be one despicable human being.
'Child actors' FFS.

She has a new book out.

Wanderer78

Professor Moriarty wrote:

Is there a 'Left' party? How many votes do they typically get?

Possibly some fringe parties, such as the greens, but they d only get minor support, compared to the other juggernauts

Danzy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Definitions such as 'Left' and 'Right' have little meaning. They are simply lazy generalisations. For example, how would you contrast and compare the 'Left' in Ireland with the 'Left' in the US?

They are terms that we grew up with but they are oblique at this stage and I think they will not last as we knew them, one simple reason being the fading away of the Left as have known it, however they interrelate to each other, the decline is widespread enough to be seen as systemic.

It is multi faceted at this stage. Statist vs Free market, National vs Globalist, Establishment insider vs outsider, the usual class divide.

There are people from the radical right to the radical Left and all in between that can be found in every one of those groups.

The banker and the Socialist will be passionate friends on some and vigorous opponents on others.

Milton Friedman has as much relevance to the modern world as Gramsci, next to none.

26000 Elephants

Laura Ingraham on Fox News has described child detention centres as "basically summer camps"

The immorality of the policy is one thing: Its a lot worse to try and defend it.

Captain Obvious

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Laura Ingraham on Fox News has described child detention centres as "basically summer camps"

The immorality of the policy is one thing: Its a lot worse to try and defend it.

I hope there is a serious reckoning for Fox "News".

Wanderer78

26000 Elephants wrote:

The immorality of the policy is one thing: Its a lot worse to try and defend it.

Probably a lot worse things to come from this administration, god only knows what they ll get up to in their second term

Christy42

Danzy wrote: »

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Seeing as you're tossing labels around, how would you describe yourself?

I've been called a Bennite before.

Though much of my views would have been mainstream on the Left and even the right in most of Europe pre the 80s and 90s.

That said the Left today is a very different beast to then, a stark class divide has opened up between it and its traditional base.

The point of the left was not and is not to only help those less fortunate if they have the right birth location. Anyone claiming to be left while being happy with children locked in over crowded cages is having a laugh (oh and didn't Hillary win with low income voters?).

Honestly though I don't care what label you put on it. My own sense of morality tells me throwing little kids in over crowded cages and laughing at their cries is morally horrific. I don't care what your background is.

Outside of the Magdeline laundries and Ireland in Ireland I don't think these views have been mainstream in Europe for quite some time.