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Child Item

Work issue with holidays

Steven Seagal

So I work in an IT job where my shifts are 3 days on, 2 days off, and have been saving my paid holidays for an extended trip away with my gf.
It would be 8 paid days off in total and mentioned it to my boss a few months back and told me to just fill in our usual PTO Form and ask him to sign it closer to the time.
So last week I filled it in and he told me his boss is now the one approving time off requests and she needs to sign off on it but had refused my request.
I told my boss the purpose of the trip was to propose to my gf and the holiday was all inclusive and non refundable, I have paid near 8k for this. He was very sympathetic and saod he would have approved it no prob but his boss still refused.
Just before Christmas another person on my team took 11 pto days off in a row and we werent informed of any changes to the lengths we were allowed to take at a time.

Any ideas what my options are here???
It’s a very expensive loss if I cant go and would seriously consider resigning over it.

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[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

............

Would we agree for it to be entirely equally distributed..........

I'm a firm believer that there is no need for this, as I said.... "Income tax and corporation tax are the current stabs at further distributing the wealth created and that's proving to be largely successful currently"

the folk shouting for more equal distribution want the "middle class " to further subsidise the welfare class in Ireland, they most definitely don't want all Irish folk encountering increased costs or further taxes to distribute "Irish" wealth internationally. I'd be more in favour of that than a further internal distribution in our nation, to be honest.

[Deleted User]

Wanderer78 wrote: »

at some point in time, we actually have to start accepting, our working environments arent actually working for most, including employers. theres plenty of evidence to show, our planet is awash with wealth, but this wealth is becoming highly concentrated, we have to start addressing this or it could potentially cause catastrophic economic collapse. i know plenty of small business owners, the pressures to maintain their businesses is astonishing.

I tend to disagree.
Most people strive to improve their situation. Loads and loads of people enjoy what they do for a living. It can be tough at times and a challenge but as many thrive on that as don't.

I really doubt the plenly of small business owners who know would have things any other way and I also reckon your view from the outside looking in might well not be at all representative of reality, I'd also suspect you don't know plenty small business owners tbh.

Those that don't thrive have other options, admittedly lower paid in many cases.

Humans aren't like the lads in the The Lotos-Eaters Poem by Lord Tennyson, for the most part. Those that are so inclined are hugely in favour of the something for nothing and hard work is bad for you.

Tell me how

Wanderer78 wrote:

at some point in time, we actually have to start accepting, our working environments arent actually working for most, including employers. theres plenty of evidence to show, our planet is awash with wealth, but this wealth is becoming highly concentrated, we have to start addressing this or it could potentially cause catastrophic economic collapse. i know plenty of small business owners, the pressures to maintain their businesses is astonishing.

Augeo wrote:

I'm a firm believer that the wealth created should be distributed fairly to the worker, company and of course the shareholder while the customer is charged a fair and reasonable price.

Income tax and corporation tax are the current stabs at further distributing the wealth created and that's proving to be largely successful currently.

Agree that wealth allocation is skewed. But, we in Ireland are still largely in at least the top 10% globally of the "haves".

Would we agree for it to be entirely equally distributed if it meant our standard of living dropped? Or do we just distribute more equally within our 10% grouping.

Would we accept paying 2-300% more for clothes? Or increased food prices?

lawred2

Steven Seagal wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, my immediate manager asked me this morning what I was going to do if I couldn’t get this approved and told him it would leave me no choice but to look for a new job. He wasn’t surprised and told me he would push as much as he could but not to be expecting good news.

what a coward - he approved it - he is the one that should be 'pushing' for it

Banterbus28

"Vocation" literally means "calling" (cf. "vocal"). It refers to work that one does because of a feeling of deep affinity, attraction and/or talent. ... Note that ideally "profession" and "vocation" overlap - a lawyer, by profession, will have much more job satisfaction if law is also her/his vocation.

A job in this example refers to somebody just converting time to money.

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

I'm a firm believer that the wealth created should be distributed fairly to the worker, company and of course the shareholder while the customer is charged a fair and reasonable price.

Income tax and corporation tax are the current stabs at further distributing the wealth created and that's proving to be largely successful currently.

There are countless example of activites that cannot occur on a 9 - 5 basis, policing, hospital A&E, care assistants, many manufacturing processes etc etc etc and of course a huge proportion of the service industry.

the work of people such as joe stigliz and thomas piketty, amongst others, shows otherwise.

lawred2

Steven Seagal wrote: »

My boss’s boss, the woman who refused my PTO is the global manager of our team so the only other option was to say it to HR, and they told me only she can approve them now.

nice of her to just reject the request with giving you or anyone a reason...

some people are just dicks

Wanderer78

Banterbus28 wrote: »

It's a vocation not a job most go into it for a love of helping people, those that go into it as "just a job" don't last long and if they do hold out they are miserable.

Of course pulling dead kids from wrecked cars is going to be stressful but OH studies show that most are on sick due ti lack of rest.

vocation/job, whats the difference? most people require a job to survive. i have met many emergency services personal, astonishing human beings, most indeed do go into it for pure humanitarian reasons, sadly many end up leaving due to environmentally induced mental health reasons.

[Deleted User]

Wanderer78 wrote: »

or maybe do everything 9-5, and simply employ more to do the work during the hours, introduce policies that make sure the wealth created from these processes is actually more evenly distributed, and treat workers with a bit of respect and not like they current are, i.e. worker drones. humans are humans, and its well known, shift work is highly dangerous for humans in relation to their physical and mental health

I'm a firm believer that the wealth created should be distributed fairly to the worker, company and of course the shareholder while the customer is charged a fair and reasonable price.

Income tax and corporation tax are the current stabs at further distributing the wealth created and that's proving to be largely successful currently.

There are countless example of activites that cannot occur on a 9 - 5 basis, policing, hospital A&E, care assistants, many manufacturing processes etc etc etc and of course a huge proportion of the service industry.

Banterbus28

beauf wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Best example is Emergency services, they can only do shift work due to the nature of service delivery.

The high amount of sickness absence is due to stress whichbis due to not resting.

Its also an incredibly stressful job.

It's a vocation not a job most go into it for a love of helping people, those that go into it as "just a job" don't last long and if they do hold out they are miserable.

Of course pulling dead kids from wrecked cars is going to be stressful but OH studies show that most are on sick due ti lack of rest.

beauf

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Best example is Emergency services, they can only do shift work due to the nature of service delivery.

The high amount of sickness absence is due to stress whichbis due to not resting.

Its also an incredibly stressful job.

Wanderer78

Tell me how wrote: »

The working environment, for the vast majority (and dare I say it, everyone in Ireland) is exponentially better now than it was in the past.

What you say isn't necessarily untrue but it is idealistic. 99%+ of companies in Ireland are small to medium. They are full of people who have to work late because they simply cannot afford to hire someone else.

I spent 10 yrs as a manager and for a small number of people, if you gave them a 35 hr week, they'd complain that it wasn't 30 hrs and if they worked 30 they'd think it should be 25 (with same pay of course). That's a bit off a flippant example but I trust you understand my point.

There's an equal proportion of "chancers" in blue collar roles as white collar in my experience.

Of course, it would be great if there weren't any anywhere but that scenario simply doesn't exist.

at some point in time, we actually have to start accepting, our working environments arent actually working for most, including employers. theres plenty of evidence to show, our planet is awash with wealth, but this wealth is becoming highly concentrated, we have to start addressing this or it could potentially cause catastrophic economic collapse. i know plenty of small business owners, the pressures to maintain their businesses is astonishing.

Banterbus28

Best example is Emergency services, they can only do shift work due to the nature of service delivery.

The high amount of sickness absence is due to stress whichbis due to not resting.

Tell me how

Wanderer78 wrote:

or maybe do everything 9-5, and simply employ more to do the work during the hours, introduce policies that make sure the wealth created from these processes is actually more evenly distributed, and treat workers with a bit of respect and not like they current are, i.e. worker drones. humans are humans, and its well known, shift work is highly dangerous for humans in relation to their physical and mental health

The working environment, for the vast majority (and dare I say it, everyone in Ireland) is exponentially better now than it was in the past.

What you say isn't necessarily untrue but it is idealistic. 99%+ of companies in Ireland are small to medium. They are full of people who have to work late because they simply cannot afford to hire someone else.

I spent 10 yrs as a manager and for a small number of people, if you gave them a 35 hr week, they'd complain that it wasn't 30 hrs and if they worked 30 they'd think it should be 25 (with same pay of course). That's a bit off a flippant example but I trust you understand my point.

There's an equal proportion of "chancers" in blue collar roles as white collar in my experience.

Of course, it would be great if there weren't any anywhere but that scenario simply doesn't exist.

Banterbus28

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Shift work suits me much better than Mon'Fri 9-5 like I do now.

I am nocturnal ��

even though i do understand where you re coming from, i have met some whereby shifts suit them and seem somewhat healthy enough on them, theres plenty of evidence to show, its generally extremely unhealthy for humans

There's always outliers in any data set

Wanderer78

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Shift work suits me much better than Mon'Fri 9-5 like I do now.

I am nocturnal &#55357;&#56834;

even though i do understand where you re coming from, i have met some whereby shifts suit them and seem somewhat healthy enough on them, theres plenty of evidence to show, its generally extremely unhealthy for humans

doolox

Many insurance companies spread their labour force across many time zones so that the customer facing stuff is done 9-5 in each local area and back room stuff is done by people in a different time zone at a 5 to 8 hr separation from the area whose data they are working on.

A company in Loughrea, Co. Galway and another one in Letterkenny, work on US east coast client base data in what are normal office hours for the Irish staff but are late evening for the US people.

This saves the company paying shift and unsocial hours premia and the cost of employment in remote rural areas of Ireland are somewhat cheaper than the US.

Banterbus28

I dream of getting a job that's 4 on 4 off.

Banterbus28

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Easiest solution is instead of cramming every thing into 9-5. Do all the front of house customer and client facing stuff Mon-Fri 9-5. And then have admin monkeys do nightshift to do all the administration ��

or maybe do everything 9-5, and simply employ more to do the work during the hours, introduce policies that make sure the wealth created from these processes is actually more evenly distributed, and treat workers with a bit of respect and not like they current are, i.e. worker drones. humans are humans, and its well known, shift work is highly dangerous for humans in relation to their physical and mental health

Shift work suits me much better than Mon'Fri 9-5 like I do now.

I am nocturnal ðŸ˜‚

JustAThought

Well done OP and what an appalling stress and mess for what should be an ordinary happy annual event -a well earned holiday. Hopefully you will get a new job soon with a far better work environment & more trustable and less spineless and toxic 'managers'. Sounds like you are well out of there. Good luck with a new job and with the proposal and having more free hours in the day to spend with the people you love.

Wanderer78

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Easiest solution is instead of cramming every thing into 9-5. Do all the front of house customer and client facing stuff Mon-Fri 9-5. And then have admin monkeys do nightshift to do all the administration &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;

or maybe do everything 9-5, and simply employ more to do the work during the hours, introduce policies that make sure the wealth created from these processes is actually more evenly distributed, and treat workers with a bit of respect and not like they current are, i.e. worker drones. humans are humans, and its well known, shift work is highly dangerous for humans in relation to their physical and mental health

Banterbus28

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Many a study have shown that productivity is exponentially increased by supportive management systems I understand that sime industries the work them till their desd mentaloty works, primarily finance and trading.

and many a study has shown, that the wealth gained from this increase in productivity has not been evenly distributed, and that many workers across many sectors have not seen much of an increase in wealth from the increase in their productivity. i think we need a rethink about all this increase in productivity thing, and fast! i will agree though, since the dawn of the era of financialization, something is going very badly wrong with all this stuff, we need an overall rethink, and quickly.

Easiest solution is instead of cramming every thing into 9-5. Do all the front of house customer and client facing stuff Mon-Fri 9-5. And then have admin monkeys do nightshift to do all the administration ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Wanderer78

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Many a study have shown that productivity is exponentially increased by supportive management systems I understand that sime industries the work them till their desd mentaloty works, primarily finance and trading.

and many a study has shown, that the wealth gained from this increase in productivity has not been evenly distributed, and that many workers across many sectors have not seen much of an increase in wealth from the increase in their productivity. i think we need a rethink about all this increase in productivity thing, and fast! i will agree though, since the dawn of the era of financialization, something is going very badly wrong with all this stuff, we need an overall rethink, and quickly.

Banterbus28

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Then their not intelligent as it clearly costs more money to burn oit staff and then get new people in.

Gwtting new people in isn't cost free...

yes, there is an element of unintelligence in this thinking, but that doesnt necessarily mean those that operate under these conditions are themselves unintelligent, my own experiences show me that this is the case, and i suspect im not alone, im sure even many boards members have been or are indeed in this exact situation themselves.

Many a study have shown that productivity is exponentially increased by supportive management systems I understand that sime industries the work them till their desd mentaloty works, primarily finance and trading.

Wanderer78

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Then their not intelligent as it clearly costs more money to burn oit staff and then get new people in.

Gwtting new people in isn't cost free...

yes, there is an element of unintelligence in this thinking, but that doesnt necessarily mean those that operate under these conditions are themselves unintelligent, my own experiences show me that this is the case, and i suspect im not alone, im sure even many boards members have been or are indeed in this exact situation themselves.

Banterbus28

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote:

Never understood tge stupidity of management.

The management I've had to deal with were very intelligent, well informed and very successful in their own right, but if their objectives are continuously to 'maximise profits', this is exactly what they ll do, even if it means, treating employees like ****.

Then their not intelligent as it clearly costs more money to burn oit staff and then get new people in.

Gwtting new people in isn't cost free...

Wanderer78

Banterbus28 wrote:

Never understood tge stupidity of management.

The management I've had to deal with were very intelligent, well informed and very successful in their own right, but if their objectives are continuously to 'maximise profits', this is exactly what they ll do, even if it means, treating employees like ****.

Banterbus28

Never understood tge stupidity of management.

Pay peanuts you'll get monkeys....

Treat people like crap they'll jump ship...

salmocab

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

So what was the company? Amazon data centre by any chance?

Think they’ve started to pay a bit better and look after staff after losing a pile of people

Tell me how

Steven Seagal wrote:

The next morning I had an email from the US manager saying she was extremely disappointed with my comments about her and would reflect badly on me when attempting to land a new role.

TallGlass wrote:

Any legal recourse for her saying she will give you a bad reference. Could be discrimination here in Ireland, fÃºck her seriously. She needs to be put in her place.

Harika wrote:

I was wondering what would happen here. As e. G. our company has a "no retailiation" policy and such a threat in an email would cause a massive stir at least.

I trust OP you happened to accidentally send a copy of this email to your personal account, or take a screenshot of it.

She's unbelievably idiotic to have actually put such a statement in writing. For me, that act shows just exactly the type of personality you were dealing with.

How does she think her career will go if that got out?

Enjoy holiday and best of luck in new role.