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Work issue with holidays

Steven Seagal

So I work in an IT job where my shifts are 3 days on, 2 days off, and have been saving my paid holidays for an extended trip away with my gf.
It would be 8 paid days off in total and mentioned it to my boss a few months back and told me to just fill in our usual PTO Form and ask him to sign it closer to the time.
So last week I filled it in and he told me his boss is now the one approving time off requests and she needs to sign off on it but had refused my request.
I told my boss the purpose of the trip was to propose to my gf and the holiday was all inclusive and non refundable, I have paid near 8k for this. He was very sympathetic and saod he would have approved it no prob but his boss still refused.
Just before Christmas another person on my team took 11 pto days off in a row and we werent informed of any changes to the lengths we were allowed to take at a time.

Any ideas what my options are here???
It’s a very expensive loss if I cant go and would seriously consider resigning over it.

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Harika

TallGlass wrote: »

Any legal recourse for her saying she will give you a bad reference. Could be discrimination here in Ireland, fúck her seriously. She needs to be put in her place.

I was wondering what would happen here. As e. G. our company has a "no retailiation" policy and such a threat in an email would cause a massive stir at least.

doolox

I have worked with two Blue chip American corporations in my time and can vouch for the occasional sheer awfulness of some managers and the vital need to keep records of all performance reports, action items needed doing etc.

I am not the most patient of people but can vouch for keeping your head at all times in work or in any work related function or social event which you may attend.

In my later working life I have followed some rules: Never get drunk with work colleagues or bosses on nights out. Keep yourself to very moderate amounts of alcohol because companies use nights out to gauge true rivalries and potentially toxic relationships or trouble brewing in their teams. The less said the better. Treat work socials and functions as work, not play.

Keep written records of everything and get docs certs, if needed for ALL absences, including those allowed uncertified by some major companies. If working in a physically demanding job or work requiring heights or heavy machinery it is sometimes wiser to take off sick rather than stagger around with some vertigo or some hazardous condition so that taking off sick may be a wiser thing to do.An accident attributable to a previously known illness may get you disciplined even more harshly than an absence. Keep written records of all requests for days off and read the handbook thoroughly if getting it difficult to get time off.

Although risky, the advice of a HR person can be useful to appeal refusals or denials but not so good if the HR person is in your bosses favour unduly. It is up to you to find out the nature of the companies politics and this varies enormously between companies.

Managers in large companies have to abide by a certain code of allowing time off and allotting time off in a systematic manner and I have found that you absolutely need to have written conformation of all time booked off and arrange to let your colleagues know well in advance to avoid clashes and misunderstandings later on. Some managers will try to pull a fast one if confronted with more vocal and demanding subordinates for sudden time off and will try to reverse previously allotted time off, usually on their more timid and less assertive subordinates. With the high cost and long lead times needed for most holidays this can be expensive and difficult to allow.

Depending on the size of the company, workers are allowed to bring a colleague in to an office meeting for morale support but in the OP's case, having the support of two of his managers, his immediate manager and the Eu manager this was probably not necessary.

I have been self employed in a totally different area for the past ten yrs and I am making more for half the time than I would be making in a full time factory job. The vital thing is that I am advanced in years and don have to pay a mortgage, A mortgage or loan would be the only reason to work a 9 to 5 job and unfortunately most younger people have no choice in the matter. The trick is to get through that stage in your life as quickly and as painlessly as possible and eventually BREAK FREE................

TallGlass

Steven Seagal wrote: »

In hindsight I think it was my holiday pay money, i’ll see when I get my last paycheck.

No it was for a payments company.

Any legal recourse for her saying she will give you a bad reference. Could be discrimination here in Ireland, fúck her seriously. She needs to be put in her place.

Employers need to route these gob****es out. Make a good company an awful one. I'd say she's on thin ice with the EU director.

Postgrad10

You handled all that brilliantly. Don't forget to let us know how you get on at interview.

Steven Seagal

J Mysterio wrote: »

How much did you get!?

In hindsight I think it was my holiday pay money, i’ll see when I get my last paycheck.

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

So what was the company? Amazon data centre by any chance?

No it was for a payments company.

Wanderer2010

Well Done OP you are much better off out of there. I have a feeling though that the "shouting" you heard was just for show to make it look as if they were going to go against a manager. Either way you did the right thing by leaving.

Eire Go Brach

So what was the company? Amazon data centre by any chance?

J Mysterio

How much did you get!?

Banterbus28

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Well played OP. I hope others learn from this that leaving a job by your own choice isn't the worst thing in the world.

Oh i'm sure atleast a few of you have been tempted by that sales job but after induction they start to explain to you that you will be self employed and paid on a commission only basis.

By time he'd said self-employed i was standing up and putting my coat on by the time he said commission only i was out the door

jimmycrackcorm

Well played OP. I hope others learn from this that leaving a job by your own choice isn't the worst thing in the world.

Eire Go Brach

Well done Steven. Your as cool as a cucumber. To cool for boards.
I don't think I would have been able to remain that calm.

Enjoy the Holidays

killanena

Bang on Job OP. You handled this whole situation very well.

domrush

Delighted for ya OP you were dead right

Macker1

Steven Seagal wrote:

Hey folks sorry for the delay, itâ€™s been a hectic week finishing up. I left today at 5 after a very bitter week. My meeting on Monday was quite long but the eu director, hr manager and my immediate boss (the one that verbally approved my pto) sat in. Hr read off a generic list of questions that she obviously asked every employee then at the end asked â€˜if you have any negative experiences with this conpany, please let is knowâ€™. I basically read off a timeline of the whole issue I had printed to her and the eu manager said he was appalled. He cut the exit interview off, asked me to leave for a few mins so I sat outside and heard a lot of shouting. He then came out and asked to cone back at 4pm for a meeting with just him and the US boss that denied my PTO. The 4 oclock meeting was extremely awkward but the US manager started to play dumb saying she wasnt aware of all the details of this. I gave the eu manager my full timeline of events that I had printed and again he asked me to leave. Cue a lot more shouting. The next morning I had an email from the US manager saying she was extremely disappointed with my comments about her and would reflect badly on me when attempting to land a new role. I didnt reply and forwarded it on to the EU director. On Wednesday, he called me in and apologised how it had been handled and offered to remedy it by allowing my PTO request and well as changing the internal policy for applying for time off. I told him I had another job lined up already (not true) and the email I got from the US the day before had left no doubt in my mind it would be a toxic work environment if I was to stay. He then offered me a small payrise (single digit percentage) Again I refused and shook his hand and left. I worked my last 2 days with my immediate team who were all very supportive and left at 5 today. As I was leaving my badge in to HR on the way out, I was given an envelope with a nice chunk of cash and letter from the EU manger saying he was understanding of me leaving and wished me all the best. I have 2 interviews next week so feel like I made the right decision.

Fairplay to you. Great to have principles and stick to them. All the best in future. Some employers can be such egits.

salmocab

This went as well as it could really OP your out of the environment and the people who caused this got themselves the bollocking they earned.
Your in an industry with plenty of work available so you should be sorted quickly. Best of luck.

lisasimpson

How very unprofessional of the US manager to do what they did.. Someday they will learn the hard lesson that they are just another number on payroll at the end of the day and could get shown the door in the blink eye with out warning Happpy for you and best of luck with the interviews

uck51js9zml2yt

Steven Seagal wrote: »

Hey folks sorry for the delay, it’s been a hectic week finishing up.
I left today at 5 after a very bitter week.
My meeting on Monday was quite long but the eu director, hr manager and my immediate boss (the one that verbally approved my pto) sat in.
Hr read off a generic list of questions that she obviously asked every employee then at the end asked ‘if you have any negative experiences with this conpany, please let is know’. I basically read off a timeline of the whole issue I had printed to her and the eu manager said he was appalled. He cut the exit interview off, asked me to leave for a few mins so I sat outside and heard a lot of shouting.
He then came out and asked to cone back at 4pm for a meeting with just him and the US boss that denied my PTO.
The 4 oclock meeting was extremely awkward but the US manager started to play dumb saying she wasnt aware of all the details of this.
I gave the eu manager my full timeline of events that I had printed and again he asked me to leave.
Cue a lot more shouting.
The next morning I had an email from the US manager saying she was extremely disappointed with my comments about her and would reflect badly on me when attempting to land a new role. I didnt reply and forwarded it on to the EU director.
On Wednesday, he called me in and apologised how it had been handled and offered to remedy it by allowing my PTO request and well as changing the internal policy for applying for time off.
I told him I had another job lined up already (not true) and the email I got from the US the day before had left no doubt in my mind it would be a toxic work environment if I was to stay.
He then offered me a small payrise (single digit percentage)
Again I refused and shook his hand and left.
I worked my last 2 days with my immediate team who were all very supportive and left at 5 today. As I was leaving my badge in to HR on the way out, I was given an envelope with a nice chunk of cash and letter from the EU manger saying he was understanding of me leaving and wished me all the best.
I have 2 interviews next week so feel like I made the right decision.

Congratulations op. Give the EU manager as a reference!

Steven Seagal

Hey folks sorry for the delay, it’s been a hectic week finishing up.
I left today at 5 after a very bitter week.
My meeting on Monday was quite long but the eu director, hr manager and my immediate boss (the one that verbally approved my pto) sat in.
Hr read off a generic list of questions that she obviously asked every employee then at the end asked ‘if you have any negative experiences with this conpany, please let is know’. I basically read off a timeline of the whole issue I had printed to her and the eu manager said he was appalled. He cut the exit interview off, asked me to leave for a few mins so I sat outside and heard a lot of shouting.
He then came out and asked to cone back at 4pm for a meeting with just him and the US boss that denied my PTO.
The 4 oclock meeting was extremely awkward but the US manager started to play dumb saying she wasnt aware of all the details of this.
I gave the eu manager my full timeline of events that I had printed and again he asked me to leave.
Cue a lot more shouting.
The next morning I had an email from the US manager saying she was extremely disappointed with my comments about her and would reflect badly on me when attempting to land a new role. I didnt reply and forwarded it on to the EU director.
On Wednesday, he called me in and apologised how it had been handled and offered to remedy it by allowing my PTO request and well as changing the internal policy for applying for time off.
I told him I had another job lined up already (not true) and the email I got from the US the day before had left no doubt in my mind it would be a toxic work environment if I was to stay.
He then offered me a small payrise (single digit percentage)
Again I refused and shook his hand and left.
I worked my last 2 days with my immediate team who were all very supportive and left at 5 today. As I was leaving my badge in to HR on the way out, I was given an envelope with a nice chunk of cash and letter from the EU manger saying he was understanding of me leaving and wished me all the best.
I have 2 interviews next week so feel like I made the right decision.

Banterbus28

C3PO wrote: »

I'm surprised that the company let it get to this stage - they would appear to have lost a good employee and the OP has lost a job! Seems to show a complete lack of common sense!

Yanks mate.

Afraid they'll get sacked due to blame culture and zero employment protection in US workplaces so if they rigidly stick to policy so they can't get sacked.

C3PO

I'm surprised that the company let it get to this stage - they would appear to have lost a good employee and the OP has lost a job! Seems to show a complete lack of common sense!

Caliden

TallGlass wrote: »

I think the moral of the story here is, how an issue that should have been handled in house with 'manager A' (should have and could have been resolved here at this stage)

Instead 'manager B' wanted there say and instead of standing by the 'manager A' decision rightly or wrongly I might add, has now escalated a situation so badly, you've an employee leaving, and EU Director of Operations wanting to talk to said employee.

Sorry, 'manager B' has caused a cluster fúck of a situation, and is a so called 'senior manager'. I have a feeling and I noticed this with a lot of US workers, they never back down, the senior manager should have known from experience this was going to end badly, there was a commitment made to the employee, and instead of getting facts and handling the situation based on that and then doing an as they call it in corporate world 'lessons learn' after, the manager B steam rolled ahead and wouldn't back down and admit they where wrong.

I'd say someone is going to get there arse handed to them on plate by the EU director and rightly so. It's time off here we are talking about, easy to handle and no fuss. But somehow two managers have made such a cluster fúck out of it an employee is leaving and leaving the EU director thinking is this fella going to come back with an unfair dismissle case against us.

I think it's a work culture thing in the U.S.

They're all extremely rigid with rules and make no exceptions (even when the exception is logical).

Purely anecdotal of course but having dealt with them in 3 separate companies it's refreshing not having to work alongside them and having to deal with the politics/drama that seems to accompany them.

TallGlass

Never had any issue with verbal holidays then reminding them closer to the time and it was put in 'writing', any issues would be sorted in at matter of mins.

OP, got verbal confirmation, then went to confirm within what I personally would extra advanced booking of said holidays. 'Manager B' was been an arse if you ask me.

The other moral of the story could also be don't verbal give someone holidays if your not sure of doing it.

Another moral of the story could be for managers like 'manager b' is to use a bit of discretion and cop on.

Another one could be for continental managers to have a bit of local understanding on how things are done within that region, maybe in America it's not okay to go on verbal acceptance of offer but in Ireland and or in the Irish office it might actually be okay to that.

Shall we continue on with our moral of the stories? Either way, I am siding with the OP. OP has gone and done the correct thing and got out of there.

killanena

The Op's manager admitted he verbally agreed too.

Banterbus28

davo10 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

For the last time OP had received approval the same way he'd received approval before. So there was a pattern that this was an acceptable practice.

Verbal, not written, if you look back at the ops posts, he/she was told to submit a written request.

Still and accepted practice, and a verbal agreement is just as binding ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

davo10

Banterbus28 wrote: »

For the last time OP had received approval the same way he'd received approval before. So there was a pattern that this was an acceptable practice.

Verbal, not written, if you look back at the ops posts, he/she was told to submit a written request. Had the op received written approval, it would have been more difficult for the employer to dispute.

Banterbus28

davo10 wrote: »

On the other hand, the moral of the story could also be, do not book an expensive holiday until you have submitted the required written request and received confirmation.

For the last time OP had received approval the same way he'd received approval before. So there was a pattern that this was an acceptable practice.

davo10

On the other hand, the moral of the story could also be, do not book an expensive holiday until you have submitted the required written request and received confirmation.

TallGlass

I think the moral of the story here is, how an issue that should have been handled in house with 'manager A' (should have and could have been resolved here at this stage)

Instead 'manager B' wanted there say and instead of standing by the 'manager A' decision rightly or wrongly I might add, has now escalated a situation so badly, you've an employee leaving, and EU Director of Operations wanting to talk to said employee.

Sorry, 'manager B' has caused a cluster fúck of a situation, and is a so called 'senior manager'. I have a feeling and I noticed this with a lot of US workers, they never back down, the senior manager should have known from experience this was going to end badly, there was a commitment made to the employee, and instead of getting facts and handling the situation based on that and then doing an as they call it in corporate world 'lessons learn' after, the manager B steam rolled ahead and wouldn't back down and admit they where wrong.

I'd say someone is going to get there arse handed to them on plate by the EU director and rightly so. It's time off here we are talking about, easy to handle and no fuss. But somehow two managers have made such a cluster fúck out of it an employee is leaving and leaving the EU director thinking is this fella going to come back with an unfair dismissle case against us.

the_syco

Steven Seagal wrote: »

I told them I would have no option but to leave as I wasn’t not going to take the holiday. The US mananger immediately ended the meeting and scheduled another meeting next week with HR.

Steven Seagal wrote: »

I also have an exit interview planned on Monday and I heard that the EU director of operations sits in so will make it perfectly clear of what happened.

I like how each meeting a more senior person is in the meeting. How did the meeting on Monday go?

Stheno

mod

this is not after hours.

quit with the nonsense