Akrasia wrote: » Western civilisation is fragile. Scarily fragile considering how quickly countries like Germany in 1930s turned into a murderous fascist dictatorship, and relatively liberal democracies like the USA fall in behind the leadership of a sociopathic authoritarian man child, the UK voting to commit economic suicide in Brexit, the Italians going through political crisis... .
Oneiric 3 wrote: » 'My certainty that it is not real'. 'My faith based opinion' etc. Scientism is a very real concept and for many, it has become a replacement religion of sorts. Isn't your opinion based entirely on 'faith' in 'the science'? Have you seen, first hand, the effects of climate change, or are you just taking the word of others that it must be true? If the latter, then that is faith.
Akrasia wrote: » What is your position based on? A hunch? How do you decide what to believe?
Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: » There’s quite a difference, even if you don’t know the science, in trusting scientists or technologists compared to non experts, or religious preachers. We do this everyday when we use the internet or get on a plane, or trust medical science. Your argument is equivalent to saying that getting on a plane is the same as jumping off a building because in the first case we put our trust in science without understanding aerodynamics ourselves and in the latter case we jumped off because the preacher said trust in God would keep us airborne.
Oneiric 3 wrote: » So that is a yes then?
Most of what we 'believe', if we believe in anything at all, is faith based belief, including the belief that the science of climate, or a view of a political leader, is absolute. Whether that faith is misplaced or not is another question.
As an example, you said above that the great orange one was an 'authoritarian', which suggests that this is what you believe, but what proof is out there that he actually is an actual authoritarian? Is this belief of yours based on fact, or just the general consensus that has been fuelled in no small part by partisan pundits and media outlets?
Oneiric 3 wrote: » My argument is equivalent to no such thing. Trust is trust, and to place trust in something means you hold a certain amount of faith in that target of trust. Faith in medical science can be held so strongly that placebos have been known to work (in some cases) as well as actual medicine. Faith in aviation can lead to death. A level of unthinkingness is required, which, as you say, is something we do without thinking!
Akrasia wrote: » There's an enormous amount of evidence that he is an authoritarian. You need to stop looking at things in terms of proof, proof is for mathematics alcohol and tv courtroom dramas. Evidence is the best we can hope for when we are making our judgements about reality.
Oneiric 3 wrote: » 'Stop looking at things in terms of proof". Your idea of science must differ to mine.. but I agree, basing a truth on 'evidence', rather than 'proof' is not the same thing as saying it is true, because as you and I know, fact is not the forte of science. Regarding Trump, is there 'an enormous amount of evidence' that he is authoritarian, or does this vast amount of evidence only exist in your mind because you want/need it to be true. Serious question.
Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: » Fact is not the forte of science? What now?
Oneiric 3 wrote: » Fact = absolute truth. Is science absolute truth, or the pursuit of absolute truth?
Akrasia wrote: » No it isn't. Its about approaching truth. Its about falsifying bad ideas and testing hypothesis to see where they fail. Science is fundamentally about verifying and testing and repeating. Its as far from faith as you can get. There is bad science out there but the best way of revealing that is through better science
Akrasia wrote: » Science is fundamentally about verifying and testing and repeating. Its as far from faith as you can get.
dense wrote: » It looks like you're confusing real science with climate science which relies on "experts" talking about C02 in human breath causing problems in the Arctic and the Pope to spread it's faith.https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2018-05/pope-francis-indulgence-world-meeting-families-dublin.html
Akrasia wrote: » Wow, you still have it Dense. You're still making me laugh.
Nervous laughter is laughter evoked from an audience's expression of embarrassment, alarm, discomfort or confusion, rather than amusement. Nervous laughter is a physical reaction to stress, tension, confusion, or anxiety. Neuroscientist Vilayanur S. Ramachandran states "We have nervous laughter because we want to make ourselves think what horrible thing we encountered isn't really as horrible as it appears, something we want to believe." Those are the most embarrassing times, too, naturally. Psychologist and neuroscientist Robert Provine, from the University of Maryland, studied over 1,200 "laughter episodes" and determined that 80% of laughter isn't a response to an intentional joke.[1]
Akrasia wrote: » Lol.
The resolution, introduced in the ultra-progressive city by councilwoman Cheryl Davila, then invokes Pope Francis' comment that humanity is on the verge of global "suicide" and that "God's creation" is at stake.
dense wrote: » http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/13/berkeley-declares-climate-emergency-worse-than-world-war-ii-demands-humane-population-control.html The environmentalists reveal their endgame. Hysterical Berkeley City Council declares 'climate emergency' worse than World War II, demands 'humane' population control
dense wrote: » Not to worry, the scientific community says it's natural to LOL, when faced with uncomfortable facts etc.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nervous_laughter
Akrasia wrote: » Did you read the city council resolution? Can you quote me the part that talks about 'population control'
WHEREAS, reversing ecological overshoot and halting the sixth mass extinction requires an effort to preserve and restore half Earth’s biodiversity in interconnected wildlife corridors and to humanely stabilize population. as well as a shift toward a climate-resilient society and culture that prioritize conservation, community, and mutual aid over consumerism and narcissism;
The global economy’s overshoot of ecological limits and, increasingly climate change, are driving a global fresh water scarcity crisis and the sixth mass extinction of species, which could devastate much of life on earth for the next 10 million years. All this and more demonstrate we are in the midst of a climate emergency.
the Greenland Ice Sheet, which is likely to completely collapse at 1.6°C warming, which NASA scientists have concluded would lead to 23 feet of sea-level rise,billions of climate refugees, and a “global-scale catastrophe”;
it is an act of unspeakable injustice and cruelty to knowingly subject our fellow humans now and into the future to societal disintegration, food and clean water shortages, economic collapse, and early death on an increasingly uninhabitable planet;
Akrasia wrote: » its also natural to laugh at satire and comedy. I can't believe that anyone actually believes some of the nonsense you come out with, so I'm assuming you're attempting satire. I mean, you just said that People not Profit are responsible for pushing global warming as an agenda. Its ludicrous.
This Wednesday February 7th could prove to be a turning point for Irish climate policy. The Climate Emergency Measures Bill [1] introduced by Bríd Smith TD, People Before Profit, will be debated this Wednesday at 3:35pm.
dense wrote: No, People Before Profit, you might have heard of them?
Wanderer78 wrote: » Left leaning political parties, particularly those with left leaning economic ideologies, are largely powerless in modern politics, so it's baffling to think you think they are to blame for such issues.
dense wrote: » Pretending to be baffled in order to prevent the socialists from claiming they've introduced the Climate Emergency Measures Bill is a strange tactic to adopt. Let's cut the permanently whinging socialists some slack here and give them the credit they deserve for introducing this very important emergency measure.http://www.bridsmith.net/brid-smith-td-introduces-climate-emergency-measures-bill-2017/ It's the only thing they've managed to do other than shout about water charges.
Wanderer78 wrote: » again, left leaning economic policies have played little or no part in modern economics, its clearly obvious we ve been engaging in highly conservative economics for decades now, particularly since the age of financialization.
ABSTRACT Water, H2O, determines the ‘General Background Temperature’ for the Earth, resulting in Hothouse and Ice House Climate States. During geological periods the movement of continents changes the position of continents, oceans and seas. Because of the different configurations, a dominant warm or a dominant cold deep-water production configuration ‘sets’ average temperatures for the deep oceans. Changing vertical oceanic circulation changes surface temperatures, especially in the higher latitudes. During a Hot House State, higher temperatures in the high latitudes result in a high water-vapor concentration that prevents a rapid loss of thermal energy by the Earth. These three processes, plate tectonics (continental drift), vertical oceanic circulation variability and variations in atmospheric water vapor concentration and distribution, caused previous Hot House and Warm House Climate States. A change in the working of those mechanisms resulted in a transition from the previous Hot House Climate State to the very cold ‘Ice House State’ that we live in now. That change was set in motion by the changing configuration of continents, oceans and seas.source
Pa ElGrande wrote: The modern welfare state is built on left leaning economic policies or did you miss the part about taxes especially
Pa ElGrande wrote: » HOW THE EARTH BECAME A HOTHOUSE: BY H2O Wim Röst
dense wrote: » No, People Before Profit, you might have heard of them? Unless the dancers against climate change have gotten it wrong again? Someone should tell them- From their very own website:https://www.stopclimatechaos.ie/news/2018/02/05/5-simple-things-you-can-do-to-support-the-climate/ I do agree it does read like an attempt at satire, but they seem deadly serious about it. We really shouldn't laugh, they might be offended.
Akrasia wrote: » So I can add 'the political system' to 'Climate science' as another thing that you have no understanding of Any elected TD can introduce a bill for debate, it doesn't mean it's going to pass, and even if it passes, it doesn't mean it's going to get through committee and the senate and become law.
Akrasia wrote: » It is utterly ludicrous to suggest that socialists have been in any way responsible for the fact that there is a global scientific consensus that we need to address climate change, or that socialists in Ireland have pushed the center left or center right political parties to agree to tackle climate change. It's ludicrous and if this is your actual considered belief on the subject, then you're an unwitting satire of your own position.
Akrasia wrote: » On the other hand, there is enormous evidence that certain 'libertarian' political parties and institution have been doing a lot to try and corrupt the debate and prevent action on climate change. Do you acknowledge the role that right wing libertarian parties have been lobbying governments to reduce or eliminate measures aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions?
