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Dublin - BusConnects

marno21

Two weeks after a similar publication for Metrolink, the NTA have published a tender for design of 16 Core Bus Corridors for the BusConnect project:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=127159&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

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Stephen15

marno21 wrote: »

They badly need a Barry Kenny type character

Given the large role the NTA have now it is becoming a requirement

Anne Graham doesn't the mustard does she?

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

Anne Graham doesn't the mustard does she?

With all due respect they both have very different jobs. One is a PR person and the other one is a CEO.

These jobs are not even remotely comparable and require completely different skill-sets.

[Deleted User]

Hurrache wrote: »

Details are here, 1-8 in a survey by the RSA across Ireland, a small minority, http://irishcycle.com/2016/05/26/only-1-in-8-cyclists-run-red-lights-says-study-of-60-irish-junctions/

Can't find the other which I think was solely based on Dublin.

Was this the other one? http://road.cc/content/news/157354-survey-4-10-cyclists-dublin-still-jumping-red-lights-despite-new-penalty

A Sunday Times (link is external) survey of nearly 500 cyclists passing through four main junctions in central Dublin last week found 177 breaking the traffic law.

One of the junctions even has a permanent police presence, as it is by Leinster House on Kildare Street.

Mike McKillen, chairman of the lobby group Cyclist.ie said: “We do our own surveys, but we also track every bus, coach, taxi, private car, van driver and motorcyclist who breaks a red light.

“All road users are breaking red lights, though of course the percentage of cyclists who do is higher — but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it as high as four in every ten.

The survey you linked is interesting, I wonder how the rate can be just 5% in Cork and yet by 1000% higher in Limerick?

(Cyclists running red lights = annoyance, vehicles running red lights = life threatening - I just don't like people throwing out statistics that muddy the waters)

I saw a similar survey done in Amsterdam where there was a similar perception of cyclists breaking red lights.

They found 93% didn't break lights, 6% turned right on a red (something that is legal in Paris and some other countries), only 1% cycled right through the junction (really dangerous) and they were all bike couriers.

After the survey they started allowing the turn right at red is safe too do so at many junctions there.

ncounties

bk wrote: »

I saw a similar survey done in Amsterdam where there was a similar perception of cyclists breaking red lights.

They found 93% didn't break lights, 6% turned right on a red (something that is legal in Paris and some other countries), only 1% cycled right through the junction (really dangerous) and they were all bike couriers.

After the survey they started allowing the turn right at red is safe too do so at many junctions there.

Let´s have a boards get together here (https://goo.gl/maps/ScJq29MSUeu) and we can count them ourselves...

marno21

Stephen15 wrote: »

Anne Graham doesn't the mustard does she?

Adding to what devnull said, there were many features on the radio today. Noel Rock was on Newstalk Breakfast, Mannix Flynn was on Pat Kenny, Paul Melia was on Today with SOR, Anne Graham was on RTE Radio 1 News at One, Anne Graham was on the Last Word, and whatever else was on that I missed.

One PR person to cover all of these would be best. I gave 5 media engagements above, that would be a large addition to the CEO of a national transport group. If IE are big enough to have a PR person when they have a smaller and ever lessening portfolio of responsibilities then it would make sense for the NTA to have same.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep this thread about the infrastructure elements of Bus Connects, rather than driver and cyclist behaviour. It is not relevant. Dublin needs buses to go faster and to have priority, so that journey times are halved from the current crawl.

Any off topic stuff and nonsense will be deleted.

loyatemu

Some FG TD on the news complaining that people hadn't been consulted...

THIS IS THE START OF THE CONSULTATION YOU SPANNER!

how can they put it out for consultation without publishing high level plans and discussing the possibility of CPOs - what are they supposed to do, go to every one of the 1300 houses individually before publishing anything?

questionmark?

loyatemu wrote: »

Some FG TD on the news complaining that people hadn't been consulted...

THIS IS THE START OF THE CONSULTATION YOU SPANNER!

how can they put it out for consultation without publishing high level plans and discussing the possibility of CPOs - what are they supposed to do, go to every one of the 1300 houses individually before publishing anything?

Obtain permission from all 1300 households and ensure they put a notice up in the local parish hall in case anyone outside those houses wants to complain before a consultation!

It's very frustrating that something that is required only gets reported as a negative. Sick of nimbys that can't see the bigger picture in this country.

Zebra3

To think that Rock is actually a FG TD, and that these positive changes for the city and the people are being pushed by HIS party, and yet he’s straight out with the whinging.

Let me guess, he just slated the NTA, but not his own party. Some hypocrite. :rolleyes:

Varta

There is no need for most of the proposed infrastructure. Simply reduce the price of public transport, it is ridiculously expensive. Charge just one euro per journey and more people will use it, therefore there will be less cars on the road. If there are less cars on the road the buses will move quicker. Therefore people will see that buses move quickly and they are cheap to use and will use them. Thus even less cars on the road. More people will use public transport and so on. Public transport is too expensive and these proposed changes will not fix that or anything else.

marno21

Does Matt Cooper live near the proposed Rathfarnham QBC around Rathmines? He got very defensive about the proposed changes here on Today FM earlier.

marno21

More positive reporting from the Irish Times regarding loss of value of people's homes.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/value-of-homes-hit-by-bus-corridor-plan-could-drop-by-up-to-25-1.3528281

Qrt

marno21 wrote: »

More positive reporting from the Irish Times regarding loss of value of people's homes.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/value-of-homes-hit-by-bus-corridor-plan-could-drop-by-up-to-25-1.3528281

...followed by this very different headline in the "related" section: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-dublin-s-new-bus-routes-a-step-in-the-right-direction-1.3528179?mode=amp

Dardania

Just putting aside the media perception, and the physical works that will be needed to implement for a moment - what do people think of the routes shown? Do they make sense from a network perspective?

I noticed something earlier about the integrated ticketing etc

Kevtherev1

marno21 wrote: »

Does Matt Cooper live near the proposed Rathfarnham QBC around Rathmines? He got very defensive about the proposed changes here on Today FM earlier.

Correct... matt cooper lives in one of the victorian houses on Cowper Road. Across from the 140 bus stop. One of them.

cgcsb

It seems that the south west of the City is to benefit the most. The George's st-Rathfarnham road seems to show the most significant journey time improvements. Long overdue. I notice they've said nothing on City Centre arrangements, I wonder why that is?

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

It seems that the south west of the City is to benefit the most. The George's st-Rathfarnham road seems to show the most significant journey time improvements. Long overdue. I notice they've said nothing on City Centre arrangements, I wonder why that is?

They'd probably say that it's beyond the scope of a project designed to deal with Radial and Orbital routes.

In truth, dealing with the objections from both the city centre and the above routes would probably kill any project.

They do have some city centre stuff in there though, just around the quays, and the new bridge down near the East Link toll bridge.

Bray Head

cgcsb wrote: »

I notice they've said nothing on City Centre arrangements, I wonder why that is?

It's probably due to the current uncertainty regarding the pedestrianisation of College Green.

Making more of the city centre bus only is problematic due to the presence of privately-owned car parks. Long-run, CPO-ing some of them will have to be part of the solution.

tobsey

Varta wrote: »

There is no need for most of the proposed infrastructure. Simply reduce the price of public transport, it is ridiculously expensive. Charge just one euro per journey and more people will use it, therefore there will be less cars on the road. If there are less cars on the road the buses will move quicker. Therefore people will see that buses move quickly and they are cheap to use and will use them. Thus even less cars on the road. More people will use public transport and so on. Public transport is too expensive and these proposed changes will not fix that or anything else.

If people switch from cars to buses they will just be replaced by other cars who will switch their route from busier routes to these now quieter ones. The only thing we can do is ensure that the buses get free movement and let the cars wait alongside.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

It seems that the south west of the City is to benefit the most. The George's st-Rathfarnham road seems to show the most significant journey time improvements. Long overdue. I notice they've said nothing on City Centre arrangements, I wonder why that is?

This is just a high level overview of the 16 radial corridors.

The city centre will be dealt with, to a degree, when the Jarrett Walker bus route network review due to be published in July as that is predicated on the College Green/Dame St axis being removed.

As for the published plan, I’ll believe that journey time on the Rathfarnham route when pigs fly.

Bray Head

I wouldn't use Dublin Bus tomorrow if fares were abolished.

I'd happily pay double if there were significant improvements in punctuality, comfort and speed. Lots of free travel holders use their cars because DB is slow and unreliable.

roadmaster

Independent.ie are saying residents could be getting €25k per square meter. Would they get that much?

loyatemu

roadmaster wrote: »

Independent.ie are saying residents could be getting €25k per square meter. Would they get that much?

that sounds a lot - if it was true you could expect most objections to disappear but it seems excessive.

cgcsb

LXFlyer wrote: »

This is just a high level overview of the 16 radial corridors.

The city centre will be dealt with, to a degree, when the Jarrett Walker bus route network review due to be published in July as that is predicated on the College Green/Dame St axis being removed.

As for the published plan, I’ll believe that journey time on the Rathfarnham route when pigs fly.

It proposes radial journeys to Rathfarnham would be some of the fastest in Dublin, it's hard to imagine now but if the money is spent and the moaners ignored, there isn't any real reason why not.

cgcsb

The proposal to ban cars on Prussia Street and Cabra road, except for local access, access to Prussia st shopping centre and the Lidl is interesting. Like how exactly would that be enforced? There also needs to be a lot of work on Stoneybatter it's self. The inbound buslane is basically just a car park at all times and parking at bus stops is a real nuisance around here, not to mention that the outbound cycling lane is again just a car park.

CatInABox

I wonder how they're planning on building them. Working on all of them at the same time would be traffic suicide, so which ones should get priority?

Even getting one route up and running as planned will show that it has massive benefits for all those living along the routes, Anne act as an advertisement for all the others.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

It proposes radial journeys to Rathfarnham would be some of the fastest in Dublin, it's hard to imagine now but if the monay is spent and the moaners ignored, there isn't any real reason why not.

Really?

It and the Templeogue QBC have the slowest bus speeds in the city.

There is no way that such a change in peak journey times will ever be achieved on that route - it’s cloud cuckoo land.

Short of razing the heart of Terenure, Rathgar and Rathmines villages to the ground it’s frankly impossible.

I just don’t see it happening - “the moaners” as you refer to them will bog any CPO down in the courts for years. It’s a half-baked solution for an area of the city that is being ignored in terms of high capacity rail solutions.

cgcsb

CatInABox wrote: »

I wonder how they're planning on building them. Working on all of them at the same time would be traffic suicide, so which ones should get priority?

Even getting one route up and running as planned will show that it has massive benefits for all those living along the routes, Anne act as an advertisement for all the others.

They could do small sections of each route at the same time, and over time there'd be improvements to journey times across the board and you'd be spreading the burden of the construction work fairly evenly. Some routes need a lot of work and others hardly need any. Clongriffen to Amien St for example is pretty much already in existence with only one pinch point to be removed.

cgcsb

LXFlyer wrote: »

Really?

It and the Templeogue QBC have the slowest bus speeds in the city.

There is no way that such a change in peak journey times will ever be achieved on that route - it’s cloud cuckoo land.

Short of razing the heart of Terenure, Rathgar and Rathmines villages to the ground it’s frankly impossible.

I just don’t see it happening - “the moaners” as you refer to them will bog any CPO down in the courts for years. It’s a half-baked solution for an area of the city that is being ignored in terms of high capacity rail solutions.

The urban villages like Rathmines have been proposed as being sort of bus gates with only one way private traffic and the rest of the streets used for sustainable modes. It can be done, it just means very severe disruption to car commuters.

I think the City Centre is the most crucial element, it is the biggest bottleneck and the south-west corridor is the second biggest challenge. Overall if busconnects is fully implemented the car commuter will be almost completely squeezed out.