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Cork - BusConnects

marno21

€200m in the NDP for bus improvement in Cork, which is BADLY needed.

In Cork, Bus Éireann services travel on 625km of roadway but just 14km - 2.2pc - is bus priority.

A study by Jacobs Consultants on behalf of the company identified 25 pinch points where speeds fell to between 1kmh and 6kmh at peak times.

From: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bus-speeds-in-some-cities-average-just-1kmh-amid-fears-of-1m-timetable-target-fines-36996316.html

In light of the fact that we won't get anything concrete for a while, your suggestions are welcome.

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Stephen15

But Cork rejected bus priority on Patrick Street

but now the langers want more bus priority

seems logical

zetalambda

Stephen15 wrote: »

But Cork rejected bus priority on Patrick Street but now the langers want more bus priority seems logical

You've got it all wrong Gumby.

It was a relatively small group of city center traders that scuppered the city councils plan.

BTW They are supposed to take a second go at the Patrick St plans in a month or two.

cgcsb

Nonsense, the people of Cork will douse themselves in petrol and set themselves a light in the middle of the afternoon if an evening rush hour bus lane is implemented on the main street, we were told it prevents people illegally parking to pick up their Chinese. Can you imagine if even more priority was given to buses? there'd be blood on the streets.

zetalambda

I can't wait to see what happens when they try to take the flower patches off 1,300 skangers in Dublin. They'll be out with their garden forks and sheares, frothing at the mouth, defending their land to the death!

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep this thread for Cork related Bus Connects. There is a general thread for Bus Connects - which really is about Dublin since it will take the largest share of the resources.

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mod: Can we keep this thread for Cork related Bus Connects. There is a general thread for Bus Connects - which really is about Dublin since it will take the largest share of the resources.

I agree with this - however, both the reaction to the Patrick Street bus lane and the general media and public backlash about BusConnects in Dublin is something to be aware of when discussing BusConnects in the other cities.

I would hope, and imagine, that the NTA keep mind of the tripe we are seeing today when planning for other cities.

marno21

zetalambda wrote: »

I can't wait to see what happens when they try to take the flower patches off 1,300 skangers in Dublin. They'll be out with their garden forks and sheares, frothing at the mouth, defending their land to the death!

Take a look at the two M28 threads and see how certain individuals in Cork carry on when someone tries to develop something.

Given the low amount of bus lane in Cork already it'll be interesting to see where this all starts.

There is also an allocation for a feasibility study for a light rail system in Cork which may tell us that BRT is the best option.

I reckon in the finish it'll have to be light rail over BRT because there will be too many objections to closing off roads for BRT.

zetalambda

Yes, I've been following those threads and I'm well aware what's going on down south not just the M28 whingers! Too many Cork people play into the rebel county mentality in addition to the usual nimbyism. On the contrary, I don't really think the home owners on the proposed new bus lanes in Dublin will put up much of a fight. More likely they'll roll over, accept the plans and take the money.

Cork is more suited to light rail rather than expanded bus infrastructure but even at the mere suggestion of using the old Blackrock Passage line about 10 years ago for BRT or tram, there was a lot of resistance by the locals who want it to remain as a walking/cycling amenity.

Anyway, as this thread is about Bus Connects in Cork, I can't see anything significant happening other than more new buses, minor enhancements to routes and increased frequencies. Cork is a very compact city and the streets are simply too narrow to create bus lanes where they are needed without causing gridlock for other road users.

marno21

zetalambda wrote: »

Yes, I've been following those threads and I'm well aware what's going on down south not just the M28 whingers! Too many Cork people play into the rebel county mentality in addition to the usual nimbyism. On the contrary, I don't really think the home owners on the proposed new bus lanes in Dublin will put up much of a fight. More likely they'll roll over, accept the plans and take the money.

Cork is more suited to light rail rather than expanded bus infrastructure but even at the mere suggestion of using the old Blackrock Passage line about 10 years ago for BRT or tram, there was a lot of resistance by the locals who want it to remain as a walking/cycling amenity.

Anyway, as this thread is about Bus Connects in Cork, I can't see anything significant happening other than more new buses, minor enhancements to routes and increased frequencies. Cork is a very compact city and the streets are simply too narrow to create bus lanes where they are needed without causing gridlock for other road users.

The point regarding Dublin residents not putting up much of a fight is a good one. Unlike the Na Fianna objections etc, the homeowners here are all single entities which wouldn't have the major backing of a GAA club etc

For Cork, I don't know where to start with bus priority to be honest. Integrated ticketing and all that will hopefully be copied from the Dublin setup, along with decent frequencies and increased capacity. I can't think of many places to put a bus lane.

I replied to your light rail comment on the Cork light rail thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057690496

cgcsb

zetalambda wrote: »

Anyway, as this thread is about Bus Connects in Cork, I can't see anything significant happening other than more new buses, minor enhancements to routes and increased frequencies. Cork is a very compact city and the streets are simply too narrow to create bus lanes where they are needed without causing gridlock for other road users.

Bus Connects in Dublin is all about road widening, taking gardens and making pinch points like Rathmines village into car-free spaces or one way car traffic only. Surely it'll be the same for Cork. Dublin also has narrow streets which is the whole point of the bus connects plan.

zetalambda

cgcsb wrote: »

Bus Connects in Dublin is all about road widening, taking gardens and making pinch points like Rathmines village into car-free spaces or one way car traffic only. Surely it'll be the same for Cork. Dublin also has narrow streets which is the whole point of the bus connects plan.

Different situation in Cork really and a much smaller budget. As an example, you have summerhill north and summerhill south, two very busy arteries north side and south side, both 1 lane in and 1 lane out. Simply no room to widen these roads whatsoever. Or another two very busy roads, the northlink and the southlink which both have 2 lanes in and 2 lanes out but if you were to turn one of the lanes into a bus lane, you'd literally have traffic backed up out to the commons road on the north side and out to the kinsale road on the south side.

zetalambda wrote: »

Cork is more suited to light rail rather than expanded bus infrastructure but even at the mere suggestion of using the old Blackrock Passage line about 10 years ago for BRT or tram, there was a lot of resistance by the locals who want it to remain as a walking/cycling amenity.

In fairness, completely understandable. It is really a fantastic amenity. I use it myself when I'm down in Cork visiting family and it is always jam packed with walkers, joggers, cyclists and families.

The local community there is very involved in doing weekly volunteer clean ups (rubbish collection, looking after plants, etc.) and are very proud of it.

It is a great example of a very successful urban "greenway". I wish there were a lot more like this all over the country.

I'd recommend anyone heading to Cork to take a walk along it.

Having said that I do think there would be space for both trams and maintaining the greenway along most of the route. It is pretty wide.

marno21

Information about this coming out by dripfeeding

Looks like the NTA plan to widen the Sarsfield Road outside the Wilton Shopping Centre to provide a bus lane

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Planners-to-decide-on-Wilton-Shopping-Centre-development-5f2cbb82-a8ee-41a5-86bb-9a325060c473-ds

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

The point regarding Dublin residents not putting up much of a fight is a good one. Unlike the Na Fianna objections etc, the homeowners here are all single entities which wouldn't have the major backing of a GAA club etc

For Cork, I don't know where to start with bus priority to be honest. Integrated ticketing and all that will hopefully be copied from the Dublin setup, along with decent frequencies and increased capacity. I can't think of many places to put a bus lane.

I’ve seen a post on skyscraper city about making the Douglas Rd and South Douglas Rd both one way with a contra flow bus lane on each one and a segregated two way cycle path on the South Douglas Rd. In theory this would open up a big portion of the south side of the city, possibly even linking Ringaskiddy, Carrigaline and the Airport to the city via Douglas. Short term it would be chaos but I can’t think of another way of bringing BRT to that area without ridiculous CPO’s.

Markcheese

Brt, Ringaskiddy/ carrigaline to ballincolig via city, ucc, CUH, CIT,
Mallow to Midleton rail link with stop in Blackpool (I know it's not a bus)
And an orbital south ring (or even and north ring)
Bus, with hardshouder running, and proper stops and bus interchanges at every flyover on the south ring , and some way of linking into dunkettle interchange too...
Not too much too ask surely :-)

namloc1980

Any sign of the Cork Transport Strategy being published? Thought it was due this year but seems to be on the long finger surprise surprise.

snotboogie

namloc1980 wrote: »

Any sign of the Cork Transport Strategy being published? Thought it was due this year but seems to be on the long finger surprise surprise.

https://twitter.com/eoinbearla/status/1062320631956627456?s=21

marno21

Plans afoot to widen the Wilton Road to provide a bus and cycle lane in either direction between the Wilton roundabout and Dennehy's Cross. At present there is an inbound bus lane but none outbound

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/gardens-under-threat-from-cork-bus-lane-proposal-904885.html

CatInABox

marno21 wrote: »

Plans afoot to widen the Wilton Road to provide a bus and cycle lane in either direction between the Wilton roundabout and Dennehy's Cross. At present there is an inbound bus lane but none outbound

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/gardens-under-threat-from-cork-bus-lane-proposal-904885.html

It's interesting that the council in cork aren't waiting around for BusConnects, and are just plowing on with getting something done, even if it's piecemeal. It doesn't need to be a part of a major project to have a positive effect on journey times, so this is good to see.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

The NTA are seriously taking the p1ss at this stage. We haven't even had a draft publication of CMATS yet. Unbelievable stuff...

marno21

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

The NTA are seriously taking the p1ss at this stage. We haven't even had a draft publication of CMATS yet. Unbelievable stuff...

The publication were all waiting for IS the draft! Seriously though the NTA are seriously under resourced and that's no fault of their own. They have a monumental amount of projects going on at the minute

Curb Your Enthusiasm

marno21 wrote: »

The publication were all waiting for IS the draft! Seriously though the NTA are seriously under resourced and that's no fault of their own. They have a monumental amount of projects going on at the minute

Yes exactly! Several delays.

If they're so under resourced then who is taking responsibility for that?

This is a very important publication which is going to map out Cork's future. It shouldn't be delayed any further...

marno21

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Yes exactly! Several delays.

If they're so under resourced then who is taking responsibility for that?

This is a very important publication which is going to map out Cork's future. It shouldn't be delayed any further...

Well it's the responsibility of the Minister to ensure his agencies are adequately resourced

And, well...

https://twitter.com/shane_rosstd/status/1099260058121195520

https://twitter.com/shane_rosstd/status/1095410720320180224

Curb Your Enthusiasm

And don't forget this one! :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/Shane_RossTD/status/1091658756755243013?s=09

namloc1980

Ross is beyond useless. Embarrassingly bad.

marno21

On 96FM news this morning that a coalition of residents have said they will resist this plan - waiting for further details on the plan still

cgcsb

marno21 wrote: »

On 96FM news this morning that a coalition of residents have said they will resist this plan - waiting for further details on the plan still

That's amazing, we don't know what it is but we're agin' it.

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

On 96FM news this morning that a coalition of residents have said they will resist this plan - waiting for further details on the plan still

This sort of brigade again I assume...
https://youtu.be/yy3gnenP7C8

marno21

Apologies, plans for Phase 1 (Dennehys Cross-Wilton Gardens) have actually been published

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/owners-mobilise-over-wilton-road-plans-911784.html