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Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

Iwannahurl

MOD VOICE: So as not to take up room on the helmet thread I have taken out the last few pages of hi vis related material and put it together here. All material or threads relating specifically to hi vis will be moved in here or locked if it repeats what is already said in here. There are a few off topic posts but from now on if we could keep the discussion to Hi Vis, and related topics.

Cram

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar was interviewed by Sean O'Rourke on RTE Radio 1 this morning.

Questions were submitted by listeners, and someone asked whether hi-viz and helmets were to be made mandatory for cyclists.

The Minister's response (paraphrased) was "hi-viz possibly, but the evidence is not great that helmets have a big impact on road safety."

I have mixed views on that response. The situation with helmets has been well rehearsed in this thread -- evidence of modest benefit versus anti-cycling effect of mandatory laws -- but it's odd that the Minister might consider making hi-viz mandatory given that there is no evidence (to date) that it reduces casualties.

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eeeee

07Lapierre wrote: »

My commuter bike is 10kg ! Jealous?

Green with envy!:pac:

Ray Bloody Purchase

Hurrache wrote: »

Westmoreland Street heading to O'Connell Street apparently. ****ty street for driving, never mind cycling, which I've always avoided doing.

I find it ok for the most part. As long as you look over your shoulder when changing lanes.

On different occasions i've seen people squeeze in between buses like that at the lights (going onto OCB). I'd fill my trousers trying that move.

No fuppin way. Getting squashed to death slowly by a bus is not one of the ways i'd like to go out.

tomasrojo

My main bike weighs about 50kg, and it often has about 40kg of children in it. I have to say, I find a more timorous riding style is required. It's quite hard to get rapidly into position, and quite hard to take evasive action if someone decides you shouldn't be allowed to get into that position (and that includes other cyclists).

eeeee

tomasrojo wrote: »

My main bike weighs about 50kg, and it often has about 40kg of children in it. I have to say, I find a more timorous riding style is required. It's quite hard to get rapidly into position, and quite hard to take evasive action if someone decides you shouldn't be allowed to get into that position (and that includes other cyclists).

It's a cargo bike you have isn't it? That's a whole different animal.
Heavy and old though my old man is, he still handles like a normal bike. He's not in cycle-y HGV territory like your beast.

If I had the space and the money I'd love a Bullet. I saw a courier trackstanding on one of them yesterday in town. I didn't know that was possible with them!

50kg though :eek: I didn't know they were that heavy. Can you put a child in a harness on the front bikejoring style to help with the pedalling? :pac:

tomasrojo

It might be 35kg. I don't have a weighbridge at home! I just did a search and a Dutch site claimed 50kg, but I just saw another site say 35kg. It's way heavier than a normal bike, that's for sure!

EDIT: and another site says 45kg. So I'll go for that.

[Deleted User]

I'd imagine they aren't bad once you get going but having to constantly stop start in traffic or junctions must exhausting surely?

tomasrojo

Hills are the only thing that are really tiring. Journeys are longer and more tiring generally -- not very surprising -- but pretty ok. And it means that when you get on a more standard bike, it feels completely effortless.

magicbastarder

what sort of gearing does it have?

tomasrojo

7 speed hub gear (Shimano Nexus). Gear 1 is very low; that is all you need to know!

[Deleted User]

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Here's the thing I drive a van. No back windscreen so no rear mirror. I have 2 good side mirrors. I constantly glance in both. However it's easy to miss a cyclist with a split second glance. As I say at times I'd have several cyclists weaving either side or both sides of me no hand signals yet it's my fault if I hit them.

Do you really need someone to tell you the solution?

Statler

From the article below...

“All clubs have an etiquette for cycling in a group and while most people and motorists are respectful of cyclists some feel cyclists are not visible enough,”

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/now-you-see-us-rural-irish-cycling-club-gets-highviz-built-into-gear-37001427.html

Fighting Tao

Statler wrote: »

From the article below...

“All clubs have an etiquette for cycling in a group and while most people and motorists are respectful of cyclists some feel cyclists are not visible enough,”

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/now-you-see-us-rural-irish-cycling-club-gets-highviz-built-into-gear-37001427.html

It doesn’t matter what they wear. If someone ain’t looking, they won’t bee seen.

check_six

Statler wrote: »

From the article below...

“All clubs have an etiquette for cycling in a group and while most people and motorists are respectful of cyclists some feel cyclists are not visible enough,”

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/now-you-see-us-rural-irish-cycling-club-gets-highviz-built-into-gear-37001427.html

I feel uncomfortable with this precedent. They're imagining that a group of cyclists on a club spin in daylight are invisible without hiviz? Surely the article should be slanted differently. Here is a group of people looking to take part in a sport that feel so threatened by poor driving that they have been frightened into getting a magic shield of colourful jerseys. Rather than "it's our fault you can't be bothered to look out your windshield".

CramCycle

First in Ireland to do it?!? Absolute rubbish, Lucan have been wearing hi vis for as long as I can remember.

conkennedy

CramCycle wrote: »

First in Ireland to do it?!? Absolute rubbish, Lucan have been wearing hi vis for as long as I can remember.

Yup! And it's bloody awful looking kit!

thesimpsons

CramCycle wrote: »

First in Ireland to do it?!? Absolute rubbish, Lucan have been wearing hi vis for as long as I can remember.

Loads of clubs have this for a long time now. What addles me is the cyclists who head out top to toe in black or similar dark colours. Are they just blind to their own need to be seen ?

I agree though that u can be head to toe in flouro yellow, pink and orange and still where people arent looking out they will not see you.

Eamonnator

CramCycle wrote: »

First in Ireland to do it?!? Absolute rubbish, Lucan have been wearing hi vis for as long as I can remember.

Yes, and people have gotten so used to it, that they don't notice it any more.

CramCycle

thesimpsons wrote: »

Loads of clubs have this for a long time now. What addles me is the cyclists who head out top to toe in black or similar dark colours. Are they just blind to their own need to be seen ?

I agree though that u can be head to toe in flouro yellow, pink and orange and still where people arent looking out they will not see you.

It really does depend on the scenario though. In daylight without obstruction, there should be very little you can wear that would make you harder to see. At night time in the country, Hi Vis will make you more visible if you have no other visibility aid (such as a decent set of lights), in the city, where you should be driving with dims, hi vis has little effect and many times it would be one of the last things noticed under sodium yellow lights.`

The two biggest things that will make a cyclist visible to a driver are 1) the driver paying attention 2) decent lights. The second only works if the first one is adhered too although on occasion it can wake them up enough to start.

CramCycle

Eamonnator wrote: »

Yes, and people have gotten so used to it, that they don't notice it any more.

Nothing could get me used to that and I have seen some pretty horrendous things in my day.

Macy0161

thesimpsons wrote: »

I agree though that u can be head to toe in flouro yellow, pink and orange and still where people arent looking out they will not see you.

Which is really the main issue on the roads, not what cyclists (or pedestrians) are or aren't wearing.

Pretty much all my gear has reflective detail on it anyway, and if it's dark enough to matter, I'll have my lights on.

daragh_

conkennedy wrote: »

Yup! And it's bloody awful looking kit!

It's not cool. But it's cooler than you pretending to be Larry Warbasse.

eeeee

CramCycle wrote: »

Nothing could get me used to that and I have seen some pretty horrendous things in my day.

Longford cycling club also willingly choose the same gear.
My eyes.

The only thing that stops you being seen I thy light of day as a cyclist on the road by other traffic is if that other traffic isn't looking. No amount of high viz can combat inattention and carelessness.
Night time lights are the best answer. By the time you see reflective strips it's too late.
I'd like to see minimum output light legislation.

daragh_

Macy0161 wrote: »

Which is really the main issue on the roads, not what cyclists (or pedestrians) are or aren't wearing.

Pretty much all my gear has reflective detail on it anyway, and if it's dark enough to matter, I'll have my lights on.

+1. Lights are the thing when it matters.

Macy0161

nee wrote: »

I'd like to see minimum output light legislation.

A clearly defined standard would be my preference, as some of the cree lights are a bit too much. But the Cree lights are very much a consequence, imo, of the victim blaming "be safe be seen" message.

conkennedy

daragh_ wrote: »

It's not cool. But it's cooler than you pretending to be Larry Warbasse.

I also pretend to be Frank Schleck or PDM Sean Kelly on occasion

Tomorrow "I'll be Red 5, Standing By". But never hi-viz. Except for the shoulder on my POC jersey

CramCycle

Macy0161 wrote: »

A clearly defined standard would be my preference, as some of the cree lights are a bit too much. But the Cree lights are very much a consequence, imo, of the victim blaming "be safe be seen" message.

The problem here is, and it is the reason that they now allow flashing lights, is because it is easier to as many have some lights rather than getting a few on the right lights. One of the biggest issues with lights uptake, in my opinion though, is that the RSA and An Garda promote Hi Vis, therefore, to a person who has not read into it, it would appear this is both the legal minimum and the only requirement.

Imagine you have just come to Dublin as a student to UCD, you have only cycled in either rural settings during daylight hours etc. You haven't gotten round to getting anything for your bike yet as its still bright in the evenings. You get stopped by RSA and AGS and they give you a speech about responsibility and being seen, hand you a hi vis, and send you on your way. You will, rightly or wrongly, come away thinking that this is all you need and it makes you super visible in the city.

realitykeeper

I will vote against any political party that tries to force me to wear a high vis vest or a helmet. They can encourage common sense and do an awareness campaign by all means but such a law would be an imposition on cyclists. Cycling needs to be encouraged, not have impositions placed upon it. If there were no motorists, there would hardly be any need for high visibility so motorists are the problem. This country needs to reduce its carbon emissions so encouraging motorists to cycle would be a better idea.

tomasrojo

This posted already?
https://limerickcycledesign.com/2018/04/03/the-road-safety-authority-the-anti-bicycle-state-agency/

CramCycle

realitykeeper wrote: »

This country needs to reduce its carbon emissions so encouraging motorists to cycle would be a better idea.

I can't find it now but a paper recently quoted data showing banning diesel cars in a city centre cut lung cancer incidence by 22% inside of 2 years as well as a range of other issues being lowered. Now there may be confounding factors such as increases in PT and cycling but I thought it was incredible.

tomasrojo

Interesting bit of work: testing how well people in a driving simulator see cyclists wearing yellow jackets and just wearing grey.

Basically, people could see hi-viz cyclists further away, but only in scenarios where they didn't have much trouble seeing the grey-wearing cyclists (I think)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925753518309871?platform=hootsuite