crazy_kenny wrote: » So your basically saying we can’t play 15 on 15 based on one game. Maybe it’s because the sweeper system is so ingrained into the players heads they have forgotten how to play this way.
puzl wrote: » I'm baffled people are trying to write off McGrath completely. Nobody is claiming the guy is perfect, but to disregard his achievements is an injustice. We beat KK in the Championship for the first time since 1959. We beat Cork and KK in the one year. We got within shouting distance of the Liam McCarthy Cup. Sure he's not perfect, and sure he has made many bad decisions form the sideline. I don't think anybody is claiming he is the best manager we ever had, but he certainly isn't the worst and whether he has called it right or wrong at times I think nobody can question his intentions, his commitment and his behaviour. So people aren't so much defending every McGrath decision ever, but more trying to take the sting out of the bitterness that some people have for him.
blue note wrote: » The injuries ruined our season - it's as simple as that. We took it easy during the league and I reckon we were taking a bit of a gamble (like Tipp) in hoping we'd get through Munster without peaking. And if we were serious about the All Ireland I think we needed to do that. Galway were the same - they're just lucky enough to be in Leinster. But if we were at our peak now, we'd be on the wane after that. Getting through a semi-final / final against the likes of Galway would be a step too far. Even if we hadn't had the injuries I think there was always a chance we'd crash out in Munster anyway, but I do think it was the right strategy. But with the injuries we just didn't have a hope. The Tipp game was great, but it was also a bit of a freak game. We didn't have a wide for 22 minutes or something. And that was with the likes of Jamie Barron putting two over from our own 65, Mahony getting one from out on the sideline on the 21 and a snap shot under pressure from the half-way line. Our two goals were from high balls into the square. Usually they're bread and butter for a defence, but in particular for the second goal we got lucky and got two chances. Of which we converted two - again not something you can normally rely on. And then from Tipps point of view they hit some terrible wides. And there were a couple of times when it looked like they might break through our defence for a goal, but we managed to foul them. Again, you can't always get the foul in or even if you can if it's the same man twice you can end up with 14 players. We were lucky here too. When they had a man sent off I really thought it was just our day. Of course it was a complete reversal of luck in the second half, entirely in the form of bad decisions from the officials. But it really was a bit of a freak game. A very entertaining one, but one that people read far too much into. People seemed to consider it proof that McGrath's tactics were wrong for the last few years and if we'd played like that all the way along we'd have done much better. And I'm not remotely convinced that that's the case. Last year we were racking up bigger scores than any other team going into the final. Galway probably had a higher average after the final, but barely. And as far as I could see, this was with forwards of less quality than Tipp, Galway and Cork at least. We were the only ones scoring goals too. We worked very hard for our scores - often playing it around a lot to get the ball into a scoring position, but I think we had to. Because our forwards weren't the most clinical or best at winning their own ball. Jamie Barron and Brick aren't the most clinical of finishers. They're good for a couple of scores each game, but also a couple of wides. You could probably say the same of Aussie, but in the half forward line he's actually not that bad for wides. The Brick doesn't really shoot so it isn't an issue. Then Dillon / Bennett - Dillon wouldn't be a sharp shooter. And I don't think Bennet really was either. My point is basically that without the best forwards we were scoring more than anyone else. This was somehow seen as a failure of management. The solution to creating more chances and therefore scoring more (even though we were top on both of these stats) was to play another forward. These criticisms have just been so weak for so long as far as I can see. I'm open to the idea that I'm not seeing it, but when week after week I'm reading things like Pauric Mahony doesn't contribute anything from play I just think the people writing these things just don't have a clue. So as disappointed as I am with the result yesterday, I'm also slightly glad that playing a more traditional system it just didn't work. I didn't have much hope of a win anyway - we just had too many guys injured. The Tipp game was enough proof for some people that we're more suited to a traditional 15 and those people were happy to ignore all the freak factors in the game. We had the same team plus Kevin Moran this time and we were hockeyed. Partly because we were missing players / playing guys carrying knocks. But also because that system doesn't work for us. We don't have the players for it and virtually no-one does.
Gardner wrote: » Well what’s another year. I was sitting with 2 former players from the late 90’s in the Mackey stand and we were discussing before the game how we are going to setup. Both said they were happy with how we were lining out as per the program but my argument was if we did we would be on the back end of a bad trimming. Limerick got their man management off to a tee. You cannot have an Austin Gleeson at 50-60% fit sitting in the most important position on the field, you cannot have a 35 year old Brick Walsh man up with Gearoid Hegarty who can run 100 metres under 11 seconds (source: offtheball) you cannot play midget Roche in a half forward line if you’re going to be continuously pumping long high balls down. That type of game would suit Jake Dillion if you were to compare apples with apples. Derek made that change at the 50 minute mark when it was evident it was a problem at about the 10 minute mark. Another gripe of mine was the 2 subs at half time. Why wait till half time to make these decisions? If you know after 10/15/20/25 mins etc. that you have a problem then make the sub then. Being honest we all can rant on about yesterday but the deciding factor lays deeper in all this. Take a step back and look what we’re facing pre and post the Clare game. A very valid point was raised by Daithi Regan yesterday and echoed by DMG to a lesser extent. Post Clare Game we had 5 of 7 of our AI final defenders gone. No team can sustain that whatsoever, in any code or any sport. Pre Clare game we had 8 week lead in time from the league to get setup for the Championship.2 weeks out we lose Gleeson and Mahoney to injury and within 40 min of the Clare game we have lost Fives, Connors, Coughlan and TDB. The whole 8 weeks has gone up in smoke, our game plan is gone up in smoke, our plan for the year have gone up in smoke and everything since January has gone up in smoke. One thing that is clearly evident though in all this, the notion of us beating a team 15 on 15 has been put to bed. We simply don’t have the players and the myth that DMG has been holding us back has been exposed for the myth it always was.
Gardner wrote: » Being honest we all can rant on about yesterday but the deciding factor lays deeper in all this. Take a step back and look what we’re facing pre and post the Clare game. A very valid point was raised by Daithi Regan yesterday and echoed by DMG to a lesser extent. Post Clare Game we had 5 of 7 of our AI final defenders gone. No team can sustain that whatsoever, in any code or any sport. Pre Clare game we had 8 week lead in time from the league to get setup for the Championship.2 weeks out we lose Gleeson and Mahoney to injury and within 40 min of the Clare game we have lost Fives, Connors, Coughlan and TDB. The whole 8 weeks has gone up in smoke, our game plan is gone up in smoke, our plan for the year have gone up in smoke and everything since January has gone up in smoke. One thing that is clearly evident though in all this, the notion of us beating a team 15 on 15 has been put to bed. We simply don’t have the players and the myth that DMG has been holding us back has been exposed for the myth it always was.
cul beag wrote: » Between 2002-2010 Waterford won 4 Munster titles and one National League all with outside managers I might add. Contested the 08 final also. That’s success.
Deise_2012 wrote: » Alright no need for the sarcasm cul brag. Lads I was a big fan of McGrath but it’s time for a change. The man has had 5 years with this group of players. What really annoyed me was his attitude towards the league this year. He went out and played his usual starting 15 and didn’t give any of the young lads like Foran, Keating, Prunty or Roche a chance to blend in with the regulars. It was either start his normal 15 or throw 10 new lads in together. He knew that we were going to need a decent panel this year but he never gave the subs a chance. Mcnulty has been on the panel since 2015 just floating around as well as players like Ian Kenny and Colin Dunford. Either these players are good enough or not, we’ve seen yesterday that the former is not good enough for this level which is why the new manager needs to be a neutral and pick a panel based on ability. Once again I hope and pray by some sort of miracle that Jimmy Barry or Sheedy get drunk one night and accept the job because we can’t afford to waste any more years with this talented group of players. Thanks to Derek for the good days out like KK 1st game 2016, KK game 2017, Cork League final 2015, Cork semi final AI 2017. At the end of the day he’ll be judged on trophies which we have been lacking. The players are entering their prime years. SOK, the 2 Mahony’s, Darragh Fives, Brian O H, will be hitting 27 / 28 while Noel Connors, Barry Coughlan and Tommy Ryan will be 29. Kevin Moran 30/31 and we’ll see what happens with the Brick. All the rest of the lads will be middle 20s and We’ll have the return of the 2 Bennett’s. Someone has said Tom Devine won’t be available next year I don’t know how true that is but one of the first things the new manager will have to do will be to take care of that. Deise Abu!
Squinters wrote: » Every Waterford Manager’s term has pretty much been a failure so. You don’t go three generations without winning an All Ireland by having successful Managers. That’s the reality of being a Waterford hurling fan. The joyous and exciting 00’s ultimately came to nothing but I’d still consider 2002 - 2008 as pretty good ones, regardless and despite it being capped with an absolute hammering by KK on the biggest stage of all.
cul beag wrote: » 5 years in charge- 1 National League title. FACT. Butter it up whatever you want but his term has been a failure. NEXT!!
nlrkjos wrote: » Injuries and "ghost goal"didn't help your season but these are things every team has to deal with...Cork should have an all Ireland from 2013...but for the ref adding on time! I don't really like McGrath's style of hurling, but maybe he's learned his lads can hurl as good as anyone after the Tipp game, his sweeper system is beatable,and not really needed.....he should get another year in charge, he's about the only one who can advance this team as he knows them all, and in fairness they seem to give him everything on the field. Hope they give us a good game next week, just to give Brick a good and proper send off.
Squinters wrote: » I still think Derek is this team’s best chance of getting over the line. This year has been bleak enough but the combined effect of all the bad bits of luck done for us in the end. Once there’s buy-in and unity in the dressing room the talent and belief to win an All Ireland is there and I don’t really see a list of candidates that would obviously get much more out of the lads. In any case, I’ve had a few great days and plenty of positive memories from the past few years, and when it’s all said and done I think people will look back fondly on where Derek and his team brought Waterford hurling. We need to play our home games in Nowlan Park next year. Redeveloping Walsh Park is the wrong move but if it’s to be done, do it quickly.
namloc1980 wrote: » Waterford have only played 3 games so far
