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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

Please ensure that you are familiar with the charter before posting.

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Christy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

If you consider Trumps tariffs are unfair on Canada and China, then maybe you should spare a thought for farmers in the developing nations (what we used call the 3rd world) , who are suffering under the EU rules and regulations including the CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) tariffs, and the EU farmer subsidies .

Between making the EU harder for farmers in developing nations to sell into, it also makes it easier for the EU to dump food produce in developing nations.
Im not sure why people are more concerned about Trumps steel tariffs , than they are about unfair EU tariffs on third world farmers thats been going on since the early 2000s.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/2789385/It-is-immoral-to-suggest-the-CAP-is-a-solution-to-the-food-crisis.html
The same journalist called the CAP borderline neo-colonialism this week, on CNN/Talk.

Its far more complex than the simplistic synopsis other posters have tried to make it all out to be (Trump tariff bad, EU tariff good), there are a whole host of other major factors people are neglecting, forex, interest rates , bond yield curve, cbot pricing, IP theft, equity market fraud to name but a few and probably 10 more but its Friday and its sunny and Ive got to run .

Certainly a conversation needs to be had about CAP. However it seems like a very different conversation given we are talking about the US vs other developed nations with these tariffs and the lash back on the US from it. The argument is that not only will he hurt other countries but he will hurt the US with these tariffs.

Dumping out a number of terms and declaring yourself to be right does not make it so. Certainly a number of them such as the bond yield curve and interest rates varies far more than we get large tariff changes so that can hardly be a major factor in Trump's decision as his decision would be out of date soon enough anyway if they were a major factor.

I will let you prove what the EU or Canada has done in terms of IP theft or equity market fraud given they are also being hit by these tariffs.

You simply dismiss my description as simplistic but expect people to believe you when you don't provide your own.

Captain Obvious

Trump complains about new Air Force One planes costing over €4 billion. Trump now bragging he got a deal of €3.9 billion saving the tax payer €1.4 billion. To fix the obvious mathematical issue the White House have revised the original estimate to €5 billion (We've always been at war with Eastasia). Still a missing €300 million but close enough.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/boeing-air-force-one-donald-trump/index.html

looksee

The most expensive plane I could find in production is around 500 million. That's a number I have difficulty imagining, but with a casual difference of 1bn, a plane costing between 4 and 5 bn is incomprehensible. Yes, it has a lot of fancy gizmos and tech, still its hard to see where they are finding that kind of number.

Quin_Dub

looksee wrote: »

The most expensive plane I could find in production is around 500 million. That's a number I have difficulty imagining, but with a casual difference of 1bn, a plane costing between 4 and 5 bn is incomprehensible. Yes, it has a lot of fancy gizmos and tech, still its hard to see where they are finding that kind of number.

To be fair that is for several planes , they have multiple "Airforce ones"

I think they'll get 2 or 3 identical planes plus all the spares and servicing etc. etc. for that..

Still an utterly astronomical amount though..

Christy42

looksee wrote: »

The most expensive plane I could find in production is around 500 million. That's a number I have difficulty imagining, but with a casual difference of 1bn, a plane costing between 4 and 5 bn is incomprehensible. Yes, it has a lot of fancy gizmos and tech, still its hard to see where they are finding that kind of number.

A lot of it is presumably the testing for that range. Several pieces of kit only for those plans. As soon as you start customising the price goes up. Any sort of design work needs to make its money back on these two planes. Lord knows what sort of defense systems they have on it to protect against surface to air missiles etc. but I can't imagine it would be completely undefended in that regard.

In recent years these have been complete command centers in the sky. Granted it does feel like you should get a shield helicarrier for that sort of money.

UsedToWait

President Trump arrives at the G7 and declares that Russia should be readmitted.

That's some Kompromat you've got there, Vladimir.

MarinersBlues

UsedToWait wrote: »

President Trump arrives at the G7 and declares that Russia should be readmitted.

That's some Kompromat you've got there, Vladimir.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44409775

Seriously, how many times did he say Russia.
9 times in 50 seconds.

How many reasons did he give for allowing Russia in, 0.
The main reason seems to be that 8 is bigger than 7.

I see the Italian Prime Minister also called for Russia to be included.
What's his story? I presume he is potentially in Putin's pocket too.

Manic Moran

looksee wrote: »

The most expensive plane I could find in production is around 500 million. That's a number I have difficulty imagining, but with a casual difference of 1bn, a plane costing between 4 and 5 bn is incomprehensible. Yes, it has a lot of fancy gizmos and tech, still its hard to see where they are finding that kind of number.

It is extremely difficult to make side-by-side comparisons for military contracts. The exact same F-35 could be sold at $1bn per aircraft to the US Air Force, and $1.4bn to the Royal Air Force because of the ancillary contractual agreements for maintenance, spares, replacements, upgrades over the service life, duration of that contract and so on and so forth,

The raw airplane itself may only be $2bn, for example, but the USAF may have a standard support package built into the contract which makes the price seem substantially higher than you might expect.

26000 Elephants

looksee wrote: »

The most expensive plane I could find in production is around 500 million. That's a number I have difficulty imagining, but with a casual difference of 1bn, a plane costing between 4 and 5 bn is incomprehensible. Yes, it has a lot of fancy gizmos and tech, still its hard to see where they are finding that kind of number.

It amounts to nothing short of illegal state aid.

Captain Obvious

Another unfortunate case of mathematical error for Trump.

In all, CBO says Trump's budget would result in cumulative deficits of $9.5 trillion over the next decade compared to $7.2 trillion estimated by the White House.

But what's the point in worrying over a trillion or so when workers have seen hundreds of dollars in tax breaks.

looksee

So trump says that Russia should be allowed back into the G7/8 - that it was Obama's fault that Crimea was annexed - Obama allowed Russia to do it. Trump would not have. But still Russia should be back in the G7. Logic? Phooey.

Water John

Trump is missing, his only friend at the table. Just a smart soundbite to upstage the other attendees.

Panrich

MarinersBlues wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44409775

Seriously, how many times did he say Russia.
9 times in 50 seconds.

How many reasons did he give for allowing Russia in, 0.
The main reason seems to be that 8 is bigger than 7.

I see the Italian Prime Minister also called for Russia to be included.
What's his story? I presume he is potentially in Putin's pocket too.

Trump needs a friend at the table.

josip

Panrich wrote: »

Trump needs a friend at the table.

He definitely won't find one in Canada.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44427660

Panrich

josip wrote: »

He definitely won't find one in Canada.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44427660

He is going to crash the world economy single handed. An unparalleled achievement but he probably won’t understand how it happened

Water John

An absolute coward. Uses a pathetic excuse of being 'insulted' by Treadeau's press conference comments to backslide within hours, when he has left.

Leroy42

I find it hard to understand this drive for a shakeup in the current world order.

The US has done pretty well out of it. Could it have done better, its possible, but it seems extreme for the worlds wealthiest and most powerful country to complain that the world is taken them for a ride.

It reads to me a lot like the Brexit argument, blaming external entities for internal failings.

amandstu

Leroy42 wrote: »

I find it hard to understand this drive for a shakeup in the current world order.

The US has done pretty well out of it. Could it have done better, its possible, but it seems extreme for the worlds wealthiest and most powerful country to complain that the world is taken them for a ride.

It reads to me a lot like the Brexit argument, blaming external entities for internal failings.

When I saw the headline I thought "Fair trade? Seems like a good idea ".Then I realized it was "fair trade" for the USA. What a laugh.

Someone give that man's balls a squeeze ,he is pining for the Puti porn

amandstu

Leroy42 wrote: »

I find it hard to understand this drive for a shakeup in the current world order.

Just attention seeking? Who on Earth is supporting Trump in this ?

Name them and shame them.

mattser

Under President Trump the U.S. has it's lowest unemployment rate in 20 years, economy growing at an unprecedented rate. Mr Trudeau could learn a thing or two.

pixelburp

mattser wrote: »

Under President Trump the U.S. has it's lowest unemployment rate in 20 years, economy growing at an unprecedented rate. Mr Trudeau could learn a thing or two.

So you seriously think this is all Trump in a single year, as opposed to the previous 8 of the last President? Economies don't move that fast for goodness sake, no matter how much you might personally like a single politician.

StringerBell

How Trump handled his sign off and backing away at the G7 was just so typical Trump.

When he's there in person he agrees and signs on then when he is gone out the back door he recants.

Anyone who thinks his guy is a strong leader is gonna have to do some more mental gymnastics to get around another display of his absolute cowardice.

Weak.

pixelburp

If folks want to champion Trump's unconventional approach to politics, then fine, more power to you and that's your choice, but for Trump to sign up to a deal only to then backslide via f*cking Twitter shows immense disrespect, and arguably cowardice. Politicians flip-flop all the time - the GOP famously delighted in calling John Kerry a flipflopper (complete with souvenir flip flops used by crowds) - but coming from a man who consistently tries to cultivate this image of being a powerful, decisive figure is particularly galling and hypocritical. He's either a coward, dangerously indecisive, or easily manipulated via the likes of John Bolton.

And this is the man now heading off to Singapore to negotiate with South and North Korea? Once more: why on earth should either party take what he says - or SIGNS! - at face value when there's a greater-than-reasonable chance he'll announce via Twitter that nyah-nyah, didn't mean that treaty I signed, the US is totally pulling out? It's farcical.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a jealous liberal, scared by Trump's alphamale mightiness, blah blah blah...

everlast75

He has always been a coward while president.

Any or nearly all firings have been via Twitter ffs.

The g7 stuff was incredible. Americans i know say it was one of the worst days of his presidency... and that's saying something.

If Putin has compromising stuff on him (and I'm 100% sure he has) and figures trump is toast after the midterms, expect them to get Trump to do more extreme things before then. Might as well get the most out of him

amandstu

pixelburp wrote: »

If folks want to champion Trump's unconventional approach to politics, then fine, more power to you and that's your choice, but for Trump to sign up to a deal only to then backslide via f*cking Twitter shows immense disrespect, and arguably cowardice. Politicians flip-flop all the time - the GOP famously delighted in calling John Kerry a flipflopper (complete with souvenir flip flops used by crowds) - but coming from a man who consistently tries to cultivate this image of being a powerful, decisive figure is particularly galling and hypocritical. He's either a coward, dangerously indecisive, or easily manipulated via the likes of John Bolton.

And this is the man now heading off to Singapore to negotiate with South and North Korea? Once more: why on earth should either party take what he says - or SIGNS! - at face value when there's a greater-than-reasonable chance he'll announce via Twitter that nyah-nyah, didn't mean that treaty I signed, the US is totally pulling out? It's farcical.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a jealous liberal, scared by Trump's alphamale mightiness, blah blah blah...

Add it to the reneging on the Iran deal. What is America's word worth these days?

pixelburp

amandstu wrote: »

Add it to the reneging on the Iran deal. What is America's word worth these days?

Given all that's happening this side of the pond via Brexit, it makes for an interesting, if scary, thought experiment for the drive-by posters here that champion Trump: how would the Good Friday Agreement have gone under a Trump Administration?

It's well and good tut-tutting over the various problems in Iran & Korea, but the USA has had a very demonstrative hand in resolving another flashpoint, right here on this island. We literally have had nearly 20 years of peace in Northern Ireland, in large part thanks to the solid, sensitive and ultimately effective negotiations driven by George Mitchell and the US.

Imagine Donald Trump & John Bolton landing in Belfast to try and juggle the egos and demands of the various factions. Trump & Ian Paisley. Holy god I don't think it's hyperbole to think the province would still be in trouble.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

A monkey could do the same job by borrowing trillions of dollars.

Under President Trump the U.S. national debt is at the highest level in history*. (excluding a couple of years post WW2)

The US is projected to have to borrow USD 1 trillion per year from 2020. If Donald is doing such a great job, why is he borrowing 1 trillion dollars a year? "greatest economy in the HISTORY of America" :rolleyes:

And if Donald gets another 4 years, which is looking more likely, he is projected to add over 5 trillion dollars to the national debt by the end of his two terms.

mattser wrote: »

Under President Trump the U.S. has it's lowest unemployment rate in 20 years, economy growing at an unprecedented rate. Mr Trudeau could learn a thing or two.

Leroy42

There was a very good opinion piece in the Guardian (I think) about the upcoming NK summit.

Basically, that whatever happens Kim has got exactly what he wanted out of this, for really very little in return. He has the POTUS flying across the world to meet him face to face. What a PR coup.

But whether or not anything is actually agreed, it is clear that Trump sees this as all about himself and will come out saying the summit was the best ever. Even if nothing happens, Trump has already pre-empted it by saying he is not bothered to walk away.

So on one hand you have Trump openly calling into question decades long alliances, but he is openly touting Russia and now NK as the new centres for American alliance.

Amandstu, you asked who is supporting him? There are millions of Americans happily cheering him on, and the GOP are very happy to let him lead them. And the real issue is that because of the power of the US, regardless of the moronic or crazy nature of a POTUS, they have the power to shape the world. Look at the total lack of power of the other G7 countries to have any influence at all over him.

It is quite clear that he detests the whole lot of them. From turning up late and leaving early, to even arriving late for the equality breakfast. That is just bad manners and a lack of respect.

The world has a major problem on its hands. Not just Trump himself, but if America continues to go down this path then the order than peace that the West has known since WWII could be in serious jeopardy. Macron, Trudeau and May have tried to 'lick up to him' approach and been left totally embarrassed.

Its hard to know how they can effectively deal with the US in this climate.

Water John

If Trump chooses to opt out of any meeting of a Group of World economic powers, whatever its makeup, is not the responsibility of the others present.
Maybe invite India and China, the next time, instead.

Beechwoodspark

Trump loves burning bridges and causing chaos. Never thought I’d see the day when the president of the USA openly derides and insults the Canadian PM. And of course the Mexican president too over the last few months.