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Brexit discussion thread III

ancapailldorcha

This thread is for discussing the departure of the UK from the EU. I will move some posts over shortly.

New posters, please read the forum charter before posting.

Regards,

The Politics Mods.

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Professor Moriarty

Anthracite wrote: »

I think we can all guess the true answer to that.

On another point, there's interesting stuff on the EUreferendum website, where one poster, apparently a senior civil servant, is talking about fleeing to Ireland before Brexit day as he expects carnage. Today he has mentioned that the UK government has investigated the use of VISA's (or Mastercard's) systems to implement rationing post-Brexit, but have been told it can't be implemented until a couple of years too late.

On that basis, perhaps we need an anti-immigration party asap.

Nody

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

On that basis, perhaps we need an anti-immigration party asap.

Nah; those who are smart enough / rich enough to flee are exactly the people you want to come on over as that's the best type of immigration and they have shown enough cop on to realize the BS the news outlets are feeding the masses

Water John

Are you suggesting a, no Brits apply policy?

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

Are you suggesting a, no Brits apply policy?

Absolutely not. No decent democratic society or its citizens would ever consider such a policy. Can't imagine any of our neighbours doing that to us.

Water John

It was in jest. Maybe like the Russin Oligarchs, we'd have a few named persona non grata, JRM, BJ and LF come to mind.

An Ciarraioch

Britain Elects has a most informative poll on post-Brexit options for EU relations, and it appears most Britons favour EEA membership. Of course, EFTA forbids membership of a customs union, so the UK may need to be an independent signatory:

https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1003616082257678336

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

It was in jest. Maybe like the Russin Oligarchs, we'd have a few named persona non grata, JRM, BJ and LF come to mind.

I was being sarcastic! Encountered more than my share of anti-Irish sentiment in 1980s England.

dublinbuster

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

As a matter of interest, are you Irish?

What has my nationality got to do with anything?

Professor Moriarty

dublinbuster wrote: »

What has my nationality got to do with anything?

Grand.

Gerry T

I welcome pro brexit opinion, makes for a better debate.

CrabRevolution

Gerry T wrote: »

I welcome pro brexit opinion, makes for a better debate.

How so? Brexit opponents tend to point out facts and consequences of the whole process, while Brexit proponents seem to live in their own world and regularly dismiss facts as irrelevant. It makes for utterly terrible debate.

Case in point: the poster on the previous page who I replied to after they claimed anti-EU governments were being put into power all over Europe

In the Brexit fantasy they're the heroic instigators of a revolution across Europe against a tyrannical empire. Every country overwhelmingly elects an anti-EU party to government and pulls out of the EU, causing the bloc to crumble.

In reality not one single country has even hinted at following the UK off the cliff edge, if anything it has united Europe to hold a common front.

This is an inconvenient truth to the pro Brexit crowd, so they don't debate it, or dismiss people who point it out as a "remoaner", an "enemy of democracy" or of "Talking Britain down"

dublinbuster

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Grand.

so are you a xenophobe and dont want to say so?

[Deleted User]

dublinbuster wrote: »

so are you a xenophobe and dont want to say so?

Wtf.

All your credibility just disappeared. May as well create a new account if you want to be taken seriously.

dublinbuster

Gerry T wrote: »

I welcome pro brexit opinion, makes for a better debate.

Brexit is a huge bonus for Ireland, no doubt about it.
1, English speaking country, we will pick up some jobs from Brexit
2, the EU will be desperate to keep all current EU countries in the club, if we have a smart government we can take advantage of this, this means Leo and co have got to forget about securing a top EU job in a few years and look out for the interests of Ireland first and foremost.
If they do this Ireland will do very well from Brexit.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Raise the standard of posting please and less of the back and forth about individuals' nationalities. Thanks.

dublinbuster

CrabRevolution wrote: »

How so? Brexit opponents tend to point out facts and consequences of the whole process, while Brexit proponents seem to live in their own world and regularly dismiss facts as irrelevant. It makes for utterly terrible debate.

Case in point: the poster on the previous page who I replied to after they claimed anti-EU governments were being put into power all over Europe

In the Brexit fantasy they're the heroic instigators of a revolution across Europe against a tyrannical empire. Every country overwhelmingly elects an anti-EU party to government and pulls out of the EU, causing the bloc to crumble.

In reality not one single country has even hinted at following the UK off the cliff edge, if anything it has united Europe to hold a common front.

This is an inconvenient truth to the pro Brexit crowd, so they don't debate it, or dismiss people who point it out as a "remoaner", an "enemy of democracy" or of "Talking Britain down"

See Poland.
The Polish government has stated the day we stop receiving money from the EU and become a contributor is the day we leave the EU.
Now imagine any other club where you stated this, you would be asked to leave straight away, not the EU as they are terrified of once a country leaves, it will show its not the end of the world, life will go on.

[Deleted User]

dublinbuster wrote: »

See Poland.
The Polish government has stated the day we stop receiving money from the EU and become a contributor is the day we leave the EU.
Now imagine any other club where you stated this, you would be asked to leave straight away, not the EU as they are terrified of once a country leaves, it will show its not the end of the world, life will go on.

I think about my hypothetical kids and grandkids, my great-great grandkids, not so much. That "threat" falls into the latter category.

ancapailldorcha

Posts deleted.

Nody

dublinbuster wrote: »

See Poland.
The Polish government has stated the day we stop receiving money from the EU and become a contributor is the day we leave the EU.
Now imagine any other club where you stated this, you would be asked to leave straight away, not the EU as they are terrified of once a country leaves, it will show its not the end of the world, life will go on.

Sure the government will state that as it's a nationalistic patriarchal government; however see what happens if they try to leave when the millions of poles living in European countries go to vote about that idea... Or take Germany; net contributor but look at what they gained instead in terms of ability to sell into the other European countries etc.

Professor Moriarty

dublinbuster wrote: »

See Poland.
The Polish government has stated the day we stop receiving money from the EU and become a contributor is the day we leave the EU.
Now imagine any other club where you stated this, you would be asked to leave straight away, not the EU as they are terrified of once a country leaves, it will show its not the end of the world, life will go on.

How many countries have left the EU?

ancapailldorcha

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

How many countries have left the EU?

Just one - Greenland in 1985.

An Ciarraioch

Back on topic, tomorrow week could well prove pivotal towards the UK's negotiating stance, as all fifteen amendments to the Brexit Bill will be voted upon in one session that day. The customs union amendment will almost certainly pass, but EEA will probably fail, unless Corbyn does a U-turn:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1003643042463698946?s=19

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Posts deleted.

More posts deleted. Anymore off topic discussion about posters' nationalities will elicit mod action.

[Deleted User]

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Back on topic, tomorrow week could well prove pivotal towards the UK's negotiating stance, as all fifteen amendments to the Brexit Bill will be voted upon in one session that day. The customs union amendment will almost certainly pass, but EEA will probably fail, unless Corbyn does a U-turn:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1003643042463698946?s=19

That should be available to watch online I think?

murphaph

dublinbuster wrote: »

See Poland.
The Polish government has stated the day we stop receiving money from the EU and become a contributor is the day we leave the EU.
Now imagine any other club where you stated this, you would be asked to leave straight away, not the EU as they are terrified of once a country leaves, it will show its not the end of the world, life will go on.

But this could take decades like it took with Ireland. Ireland is now a net contributor but EU membership has never been more popular. It's almost as if the Irish realise that EU membership brings economic benefits way beyond a few structural funds. The Poles will be the same if they become net contributors I believe.

ArmaniJeanss

dublinbuster wrote: »

See Poland.
The Polish government has stated the day we stop receiving money from the EU and become a contributor is the day we leave the EU.
Now imagine any other club where you stated this, you would be asked to leave straight away, not the EU as they are terrified of once a country leaves, it will show its not the end of the world, life will go on.

'Typical EU, not being a bully, we should leave' does make a nice refreshing change of approach from 'typical bullying EU, we should leave'.

An Ciarraioch

Sadly, looks like Labour will whip against the EEA amendment, which would leave the Border like Turkey:

https://mobile.twitter.com/trevdick/status/1003624877474177026

Nody

Well looks like next week will be interesting; May is putting it all on a single push to overturn all 15 Brexit amendments next Wednesday in one go.

Theresa May will seek to overturn all 15 Lords defeats on her flagship Brexit legislation in a single dramatic day next week, putting her authority on the line.

MPs have been warned they will be voting into the early hours of Wednesday morning when the EU withdrawal bill finally returns to the Commons next Tuesday, after weeks of delay.

...

In a letter to Conservative MPs, chief whip Julian Smith warned them they would be voting “well beyond” the normal finishing time, on “a number of divisions”.

And he made a pointed reference to voting in line with “both the referendum result and the Conservative party manifesto we all stood on last year”.

Now this vote could turn very interesting both in terms of the Tory rebels voting against the government as well as Labour voting against Corbyn's insistence of staying outside the Customs Union. Both could potentially blow up the chasms that split both parties depending on how hard the respective leaders and whips push the topic.

Beechwoodspark

dublinbuster wrote: »

See Poland.
The Polish government has stated the day we stop receiving money from the EU and become a contributor is the day we leave the EU.
Now imagine any other club where you stated this, you would be asked to leave straight away, not the EU as they are terrified of once a country leaves, it will show its not the end of the world, life will go on.

Have you a source for this purported polish statement?

BonnieSituation

Deleted User wrote: »

That should be available to watch online I think?

https://www.parliament.uk/

Business will be broadcast here all day.

Great resource too how it's all set up on the day of sessions. You can skip around all speakers etc.