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Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

IanVW

New thread ladsðŸ˜ŠðŸ˜Š Any update on injuries for this weekends game?

Mod edit: Given how the last thread descended into chaos, we are going to leave that closed and start afresh

Welcome to the Waterford GAA discussion thread.

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If you feel a post breaks the rules, simply click this underneath the post in question to report the post and a mod will deal with it as they see fit.

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Given that the thread regularly descending into tit for tat insults between posters, From now on, it won't be a card but a ban straight away for anything like this. The mod warning is clear in the first post but yet people still ignore it.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the ban on discussing players'/managers'/officials' private lives without any substance. You can be getting into libelous territory there. So a zero tolerance policy will be enforced as well.

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Deisedozzer

IanVW wrote: »

S O Keeffe
S Fives
C Gleeson
N Connors
A Gleeson
P Mahony
J Barron
M Walsh
M Kearney
S Roche
DJ Foran
S Bennett
T Devine
P Curran
P Mahony

Happy enough with that:)

Arguably the most exciting and adventurous side fielded in a number of years. A great opportunity for some of the players who supporters have been calling for to start. A bit more optimistic about travelling now but under no illusions about the size of the task in front of the lads.

Whitenblue93

Roll on sunday!!

Giveitfong

Just came upon the new web page.

I have been unable to do my normal kind of analysis on last Sunday’s game due to the lack of a video recording. You might think that, with cameras at the game, RTE would have shown such an important game as a deferred broadcast. BBC have been doing this with Ulster championship games and, of course, TG4 do it routinely with league games.

So these comments are based on first impressions from the terrace. Cusack Park in its present state should never again be used for games of this importance. There are far too few seats, while the slight slope in the main terrace makes the game impossible to see for people of low stature.

For me, apart from Clare’s commitment and good, well-executed, game plan, three key issues undermined Waterford here – the injuries, the failure to provide adequate cover for the injuries, and Waterford’s woeful game plan.

The four injuries, on top of those which ruled Austin Gleeson and Pauric Mahony out, were extremely unusual and a devastating blow, both for this game and the remainder of the series. I usually find it difficult to figure out Derek McGrath’s public utterances, and this again applied to his apparent suggestion that overtraining may have contributed to the injuries. Most of the injuries were the result of belts dished out by opponents while Darragh Fives’s leg injury was just the latest of a long series experienced by this player.

As I remember it, Tadhg de Búrca’s injury arose after he dithered with a clearance and was closed down by two Clare players. In attempting to evade these players, he ran straight into a strong shoulder from a third player which he wasn’t expecting and this is where the damage was done.

While the string of injuries to defenders was unprecedented, the fact is that Waterford were totally unprepared for it, in terms of backup personnel and impact on game plan. In one interview Derek McGrath said how he tries “to cover for every eventuality” while in another he bemoaned having to use untried lads. There is something of a contradiction here.

The fact is that, of ten outfield substitutes, Waterford had only one defender (Ian Kenny) and nine forwards. We have criticised Derek McGrath here before for his failure to use the league constructively to strengthen the squad in terms of depth and experience, particularly in light of the likely demands of the new format. McGrath repeatedly stuck to the same defensive sextet, as if he assumed that they would never get injured. It seems almost providential, therefore, that he should lose four of them in a single game, with Kevin Moran, with lots of defensive experience, then getting himself sent off.

Waterford did start the game with eight defenders on the field, so there were options there, but having to move them around inevitably led to organisational breakdown. De Búrca was replaced by Colm Roche, who played all his underage intercounty hurling as a forward (and a good one at that) and who, even then, has had minimal exposure at senior level. How we could have done with his brother Shane (who left the panel a while back) last Sunday. Conor Prunty probably would have been on the panel if fit, but he also has had very little senior experience.

Where was Seamus Keating, who has been playing some good hurling this year? And other posters have also queried the absence from the panel of William Hahessy and Michael Harney, both excellent at under 21 level but ignored by Derek McGrath.

We will obviously never know how the game would have gone without the injuries, but my opinion is that Waterford would still have lost, given the woeful game plan put into practice on the day. Many of the points I have made about this have also been made by other posters.

It is a poor reflection on McGrath that, in his fifth year in charge, the best he could come up with was place three forwards in the D outside the Clare large parallelogram and pump long ball down on top of them. Some posters here have suggested that Waterford only started doing this after de Búrca got injured, but in fact this was the “game plan” right from the beginning.

The fact that Clare took complete command of the game after de Búrca’s injury may have had something to do with that injury, as many have suggested. My own view is that, while the unexpected Waterford tactical approach did cause some initial problems for the Clare defence, they quickly got to grips with it. In particular, instead of competing for incoming ball, the Clare defenders resorted instead to batting the ball out, confident that it would be picked up by waiting team mates, as there were no other Waterford players in the vicinity.

Defenders like nothing more than predictable incoming ball (especially coming straight down the field rather than coming in at an angle) and bunching in front of goal. Waterford delivered these in spades last Sunday.
One poster here has described this as “1950s junior hurling tactics”, but even a junior hurling manager would have placed no more than two forwards under the incoming high ball, with a couple of nippy hurlers (of whom Waterford have many) around the fringes to pick up breaking ball. Placing three forwards under the incoming ball made no sense at all. Including Brick Walsh in this trio was even more nonsensical. Brick thrives picking up breaking ball out the field and competing one-on-one on the wing. He was completely wasted trying to compete in the crowded conditions which obtained in front of the Clare goal.

Watching Clare’s alternative game plan last Sunday, and the well-thought-out and skillful way Wexford, Cork and Galway worked the ball out of defence into good attacking positions, as shown on the Sunday Game on Sunday night, showed that they are all light years ahead of Waterford’s “caveman hurling”, as one poster has described it.

From a combination of short puckouts and picking up breaking ball around the bunched group in front of their goal, Clare methodically worked the ball to spare men on the wings in the midfield area. In last year’s Munster final, they persisted in ignoring the potential in their full forward line, instead shooting a series of bad wides from out the field. Last Sunday they mixed it up, combining much more accurate outfield shooting with good ball into the Waterford goal area where John Conlon went to town. They might have scored several more goals except for repeated fouling by the Waterford defenders which presented Peter Duggan with a series of easy tap-over frees.

When Derek McGrath first took over, Waterford did play some nice hurling in defence, using stick passes to move the ball up to midfield. However, from there on there seemed to be no clear idea how to proceed. Over time, Waterford regressed to playing blind long ball to mainly non-existent forwards. The difference last Sunday was that Waterford did plant three forwards in front of the Clare goal as targets for the continued flow of long balls from back the field. The problem was that they were basically depending on lucky breaks to achieve anything from this situation, and these were, predictably, few and far between.

The couple of posters here who commented on the minor match were, I thought, a bit harsh on Waterford. There was nothing in it at half time while in the third quarter in particular, Waterford got a lot of good possession around midfield and the half forward line but wasted it through poor decision-making and poorly-executed attempted passes. It was by no means the case that they were being played off the field, and with better use of the ball they could well have been in contention going into the closing straight.

Clare did pull away eventually, with wind assistance and showing the benefit of having played a tough game the week before. As in the senior game, the minors dealt very poorly with high ball delivered into their goal area. Kilkenny, Tipperary and Galway put a lot of emphasis on ability to win high ball in their under-age coaching, and Waterford badly need to step up in this area.

It was also noticeable that Clare were better coached than Waterford in key facets of the game. In particular, they were very good at getting out of trouble and moving the ball forward by looking for team-mates to pass to (and these were always available). Again, like the seniors, Waterford were far too inclined to hit blind balls under pressure in these situations.

KevIRL

Deisedozzer wrote: »

Arguably the most exciting and adventurous side fielded in a number of years. A great opportunity for some of the players who supporters have been calling for to start. A bit more optimistic about travelling now but under no illusions about the size of the task in front of the lads.

Five of the six forwards from the u21 AI winning team of 2016 start. The two gleeson then make it seven from that team starting.

PTH2009

Very exciting team named, hopefully they show up and give a good tipp a good rattle

For our own sanity here we need these particular lineup to do well.

DiscoStew

KevIRL wrote: »

Five of the six forwards from the u21 AI winning team of 2016 start. The two gleeson then make it seven from that team starting.

While I’d agree it is an exciting line up I think expectations should be tapered slightly. Foran and Kearney have little to no intercounty championship experience. These 6 forwards have seemingly never before played together in a significant game. Add to that Pauric having very little hurling done due to his injury and there is a lot of doubts remain.
At the back Austin has had such an injury disrupted season it’s hard to bank on him delivering the kind of performance we know he can from centre back. Bricks inclusion in the back is a bit of a surprise and it could be tough to adjust back if that is where he starts. Stephen Roche is another with no experience of intercounty.
So while I am pretty happy with the team all things considered it is still a team with more questions than answers.
With a bench of Tommy Ryan, Colin Dunford, Jake Dillon and Brian O’Halloran to call on there is still options in the forwards. Has Maurice been deemed fit enough to make the bench?

mountgomery burns

Maurice definitely out according to the waterford gaa facebook page.

Jjjjjjjbarry

Yeah it could go wrong but I don't think anyone can say Derek named a negative team. He's going for the win and going for scores and taking a chance and putting faith in the players which is something we've all wanted. I'd have started Tommy Ryan in there somewhere but each to their own. It's a good team and let's hope a few lads step up and show what they can do. It's a real chance for some of them to make household names for themselves.

KevIRL

While people are excited about the prospect of that team, I don't believe anyone is expecting to win. We might win and the chances have probably increased with that team, but tipp absolutely still strong favourites for the win.

Hopefully we will be competitive and maybe one or two of these young lads come of age on Sunday. It could go horribly wrong of course but it's worth a shot.

KevIRL

Is three lads making a first championship start tomorrow? Roche, Curran and Foran?

Cake Man

Has Curran actually never started a championship game yet?

mountgomery burns

Curran started two years ago. Mikey Kearney has not though.

DiscoStew

KevIRL wrote: »

Is three lads making a first championship start tomorrow? Roche, Curran and Foran?

Kearney hasn’t either I think? Not certain on Curran.

Motivator

One has to wonder why it took a situation like this to arise for McGrath to try out this team. If the league wasn’t a priority then why didn’t we see this team with these players and the apparent attacking game plan? If we are to be beaten tomorrow and McGrath comes out with the excuse of the players not playing together enough etc. he will get crucified.

I hope the players go and do themselves justice tomorrow. A win could kickstart the season and make things really interesting. Lose, the summer is over before the schools are out.

Deisedozzer

Looking at that team again I think it is critical that we go man for man and push up to prevent the short puck out. Tipp have made hay against us in recent years by being able to bring the ball out and play long direct ball to their inside line and bypassing our half back line. If this happens we will be cleaned out in the air and are liable to ship goals. We have to make them work hard to get the ball in there and equally have to try and ensure as much as possible that we are getting low ball to our inside line rather than aimless hail marys. I really believe we can get at Tipps full back line with the right delivery and we have players capable of getting away from their men. While I wouldn't be expecting a win I believe we will get a big performance, this team has never done anything than face adversity head on after Championship defeats and deserve our full squad support in Limerick tomorrow

KevIRL

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Curran started two years ago. Mikey Kearney has not though.

Meant to include Kearney. Fair point

Powerhouse

PTH2009 wrote: »

Does Brick have the legs for defence ??? Good team but I'll wait til the offical announcement

It's all about how we line up, do we go defensive or attack

We have nothing to lose, Go all out attack

"We have nothing to lose" is like saying the result doesn't matter. In reality, lose this and Waterford will probably not make the knockout stages of the championship. Win and they are still in with a real chance. Waterford have plenty to lose.

Deisegodeo

It will be fascinating to see how they line up tomorrow, certainly lots of attacking talent in the forward line, albeit a lot of unproven talent at this level. But I will be very interested to see how they set up in defence, cant see Brick starting half back. Aussie is a natural centre back but his instinct to push forward could leave big gaps in front of an inexperienced full back, whether its Conor Gleeson or Shane Fives. Given McGrath's instinct for caution, it would seem probable that someone else will drop back to offer additional protection, but given the starting 15 its not clear who could play that role.

Anyway, hopefully we get a decent start to the game and have a real go at Tipp. Never know what may happen from there. Looking forward to the game now.

enoughtaken

Working away so can’t go to match tomorrow. GAAGO for me. But I’d love to be going to limerick tomorrow (even after leaving there soaked and shell shocked 2 years s ago ) really hope Waterford supporters will travel in force tomorrow.

rebel girl 15

This is the last time that I or any other moderator/cmod is saying this

QUIT THE PERSONAL ATTACKS! Basic boards rule - attack the post not the poster

This is one of the most active threads on the forum, but if posters keep breaking the rules it will have to be locked and championship long bans handed out. The team of moderators are volunteers and we are not willing to put up with what carried on in the last thread.

TheScoringGoal

Any suggestions on parking? The Garda account is suggesting LIT or Na Piarsaigh

IanVW

I see caherdavin celtic fc have parking also. Seen it on there twitter page?

enoughtaken

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

Any suggestions on parking? The Garda account is suggesting LIT or Na Piarsaigh

Na piarsaigh is excellent. A really brilliant atmosphere there before and after. Free parking and they really look after you.

IanVW

enoughtaken wrote: »

Na piarsaigh is excellent. A really brilliant atmosphere there before and after. Free parking and they really look after you.

Much of a walk from there?

PTH2009

Motivator wrote: »

One has to wonder why it took a situation like this to arise for McGrath to try out this team. If the league wasn’t a priority then why didn’t we see this team with these players and the apparent attacking game plan? If we are to be beaten tomorrow and McGrath comes out with the excuse of the players not playing together enough etc. he will get crucified.

I hope the players go and do themselves justice tomorrow. A win could kickstart the season and make things really interesting. Lose, the summer is over before the schools are out.

It's a bit ridiculous running off the championship So quickly and not giving the kids (In some county's) a chance to enjoy the hurling on there summer holidays. Club games esp in Waterford are not going to attract more people cause it's earlier than unusual and some kids/adults prob would not give a toss about club hurling

Anyway looking forward to 2morrow and a win would be fantastic but it's a big ask. After tonight Limerick have an extra day and cork an extra 15 days before they play us

enoughtaken

IanVW wrote: »

Much of a walk from there?

It takes me 15 minutes but I have short legs so you can do it a bit faster.

IanVW

Arron gillane straight red for limerick so gone for the Waterford match

PTH2009

Limerick and Cork both impressive tonight. Going to be very tough. Cork bacisally through if they hold on tonight

Galways Alan Kelly is ref Tomorrow.

KevIRL

Am I right in thinking that draw is not good for us. Means we have to win the three games pretty much. A cork win might have given us some hopes of two wins taking us through

IanVW

KevIRL wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that draw is not good for us. Means we have to win the three games pretty much. A cork win might have given us some hopes of two wins taking us through

Not sure Kev, was just reading Dermot keyes twitter and said a draw would be a good result for us