Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 MOD NOTE POST 1*

ClanofLams · 28-05-2018 7:57pm

RayVaughan1984 wrote: »

Daithi Burke should really have got a straight red.He has form,ripping off Bonners helmet a few years ago.And Ref bottled it massively by failing to book McInerney.
Leahy certainly should start.

That's Adrian Tuohy you are thinking off in relation to Bonner maher. Burke was lucky to stay on the pitch yesterday but he's far from a dirty player.

citykat · 28-05-2018 8:33pm

Jesus lads need to get a grip. Yesterdays game is practically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It was always going to be difficult against Galway in Galway. The next and final game is far more important and the outcome of that far more significant. No harm in being brought back down to earth. Somebody mentioned 2012 and how useful the humbling in the leinster final eventually turned out to be. Galway are probably the best team in the country at the moment. Would I fear them? Not a bit. The panel hasn't changed that much over the last few years. They've folded often enough to us in the recent past to suggest to me that in a crunch against us they'll to do the same again.

danganabu · 28-05-2018 8:42pm

brookville wrote: »

There strenght and conditioning coach is suppose to be excellent.

Was with Tipp in '16 and with Galway last year, he certainly is putting together an incredibly impressive CV

brookville · 28-05-2018 9:09pm

danganabu wrote: »

brookville wrote: »

There strenght and conditioning coach is suppose to be excellent.

Was with Tipp in '16 and with Galway last year, he certainly is putting together an incredibly impressive CV

Turned down a role with munster i think aswell i think.he definitely has them in good condition.It'll be intresting to see how the next few weeks go for galway and wexford because we were flat yesterday but we havent being impressive so far in the championship i know these games are about winning but in particular our fowards have struggled.

MfMan · 28-05-2018 11:30pm

citykat wrote: »

Jesus lads need to get a grip. Yesterdays game is practically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It was always going to be difficult against Galway in Galway. The next and final game is far more important and the outcome of that far more significant. No harm in being brought back down to earth. Somebody mentioned 2012 and how useful the humbling in the leinster final eventually turned out to be. Galway are probably the best team in the country at the moment. Would I fear them? Not a bit. The panel hasn't changed that much over the last few years. They've folded often enough to us in the recent past to suggest to me that in a crunch against us they'll to do the same again.

Dream on son.

Wind didn't change yesterday, may have moderated a little if any.
"Pitch didn't suit us" - oh come on, this is the mighty KK, not an upcoming county trying to make a mark in the game.

Topcat32 · 28-05-2018 11:34pm

MfMan wrote: »

Dream on son.

Wind didn't change yesterday, may have moderated a little if any.
"Pitch didn't suit us" - oh come on, this is the mighty KK, not an upcoming county trying to make a mark in the game.

Wind didn't change but may have moderated? Classic contradiction in terms there.

Helps to read over your post when attempting to be smart arse.

MfMan · 28-05-2018 11:41pm

Wind didn't change direction, as some would appear to suggest. KK still had the benefit of it in the second half.

MfMan · 28-05-2018 11:43pm

Wind didn't change direction, as some would appear to suggest. I doubt if it even died any...

Topcat32 · 28-05-2018 11:52pm

MfMan wrote: »

Wind didn't change direction, as some would appear to suggest. I doubt if it even died any...

Nobody suggested it changed direction, they expressed an opinion that it calmed down, which is pretty typical for a 4 pm match in Salthill at this time of year, don't think the wind had much of a bearing on the result either way anyway.

brookville · 28-05-2018 11:56pm

MfMan wrote: »

Wind didn't change direction, as some would appear to suggest. I doubt if it even died any...

It did seem to die a bit skehill was landing them on our full back line but murphy couldnt get that distance in the 2nd but we certainly cant be using that as any kind of an excuse.Its a credit to the lads that they had it so close with 10 mins left despite playing 2nd fiddle and living of scraps we have alot to work on over the next few weeks

SteJer · 29-05-2018 12:45am

Yesterday went pretty much along the lines I was expecting. If anything I thought it might even be worse. Galway really only pulled away in the last 15 minutes. Up to that we had every chance of winning. Galway showed their experience in the closing stages. They are in year 4 of their current system/style of play with practically the same panel of players. We are in our first year of a complete change in our style of play and with a lot of rookies.

The fact the game was in Salthill was always going to make it an even harder task. Overall it was a great learning experience for our younger players and I'm sure it will benefit them for the remainder of this year.

I would make some positional & personnel changes for the Wexford game. On their day Paul Murphy, Cillian Buckley and Padraig Walsh are up there with the best corner & wing backs in the country. None of them are currently playing in their best positions, which in my opinion weakens the team considerably.

The defence wasn't the biggest problem yesterday but I think moving these 3 players to their best positions will improve the overall balance and performance of the team. Mainly because Padraig Walsh & Cillian Buckley will push forward at every opportunity and either try take a score or give a good pass. This is something that neither Conor Delaney or Paul Murphy do at wing back. If at corner back Paul Murphy would provide great cover across the full back line, something which Joey Holden & Enda Morrissey don't really do.

Therefore my back 7 would be:

Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy
Conor Delaney
Paddy Deegan
Padraig Walsh
Jason Cleere
Cillian Buckley

With Richie Leahy not playing up to his standards at the moment I would leave the midfield pairing as:

James Maher
Conor Fogarty

However, I feel that they are very similar the way they play and we would be a much better team with an in form Richie Leahy driving forward at every opportunity whilst James Maher or Conor Fogarty helps out the defence.

The forwards are the biggest concern. Forgetting about positions for now the following should start against Wexford:

TJ Reid
Walter Walsh
Luke Scanlon

After that we have a number of experienced players currently playing well below their best for one reason or another, these are:

Colin Fennelly
Ger Alyward
Liam Blanchfield

Then we have a number of newer players who are so far struggling to get up to speed with championship hurling, these are:

Martin Keoghan
John Donnelly
Bill Sheehan

If Richie Hogan is fit he will start. He would be a very welcome addition and he might take some of the oppositions attention away from TJ Reid.

I'd like to see TJ Reid play less at centre forward and Walter Walsh play less at full forward. Colin Fennelly is a very good full forward on his day. It's hard to know if he'll be fit enough for the Wexford game but I'll assume he will be.

Therefore the six forwards and positions I'd go for are:

Walter Walsh
Richie Hogan
TJ Reid
Luke Scanlon
Colin Fennelly
Liam Blanchfield

I think we should be able to beat Wexford. Whether that takes us to a Leinster Final or qualifier only time will tell. Either way anything after that is continued bonus territory after our league title.

Amprodude · 29-05-2018 3:07am

greenspurs wrote: »

I would say they were at 83% ..... :rolleyes:

Why does their percentage of requirement matter so much to you? .

Because it tells me who had more of the possession in the game. Basically who dominated more throughout the game.

Also I said Kilkenny won't win All Ireland playing like yesterday but still have time to change their setup.

citykat · 29-05-2018 6:23am

MfMan wrote: »

citykat wrote: »

Jesus lads need to get a grip. Yesterdays game is practically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It was always going to be difficult against Galway in Galway. The next and final game is far more important and the outcome of that far more significant. No harm in being brought back down to earth. Somebody mentioned 2012 and how useful the humbling in the leinster final eventually turned out to be. Galway are probably the best team in the country at the moment. Would I fear them? Not a bit. The panel hasn't changed that much over the last few years. They've folded often enough to us in the recent past to suggest to me that in a crunch against us they'll to do the same again.

Dream on son.

Wind didn't change yesterday, may have moderated a little if any.
"Pitch didn't suit us" - oh come on, this is the mighty KK, not an upcoming county trying to make a mark in the game.

Wtf are you on about?

Twiceasnice97 · 29-05-2018 6:48am

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

And these young Cork/Clare/Limerick forwards have won how many senior or minor All-Irelands this century between them?

In the recent National League in Division 1A.
Kilkenny scored 4-106 (118)
Clare scored 5-95 (110)
Cork Scored 4-93 (105)
Of course Limerick in 1B did score 8-114 (138), thanks to 1-25 against Laois and 3-21 against Antrim, teams that are not competing in the Provincial championship.

I'm sorry I've forgotten what your point is.....

kilkenny played 8 matchs
clare and cork both played 6 matchs

try it with scoring averages

then take out placed balls and put the scores up from play and see how it looks

BORO BILL · 29-05-2018 10:27am

My biggest worry after sunday was the performance of the more established players. Buckley, murphy reid fogarty and fennelly were all poor and off the pace. The younger lads will have good and bad days but you need your main men to stand up and none did on sunday. Tiredness definitely an issue as wally and maher were some of our best and neither played the week before and scanlon had only his second start and looked fresh

Hawkeye6 · 29-05-2018 10:35am

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

kilkenny played 8 matchs
clare and cork both played 6 matchs

try it with scoring averages

then take out placed balls and put the scores up from play and see how it looks

I only included the 5 round robin games, so if you have a calculator handy you can divide by 5 for each average

If you want the knockout matches included, we would need to add another 3-74 (83) to Kilkenny’s tally.

Why do you want to exclude placed balls?Do they not count where you come from? Part of the game I understand involves frees/lineballs/65s/penalties. They are included in the final score. Most are awarded when individual players are fouled. Winning frees is a type of game play. Frees are won, frees are given away. Good place ball takers are an important aspect of any team in Kilkenny and I did think in every other county too.

But if you really were to take out the scored place balls from the 5 round robin matches (points wise) i.e. Total Scored – Placed Balls;

Kilkenny 118 – 46 = 72
Cork 105 – 44 = 61
Clare 110 – 41 = 69
Limerick 138 – 43 = 95

You will notice there are marginal differences in the number of points got from placed balls over five games. Maybe Kilkenny have better free takers.Maybe other counties don’t bother with place ball taking, although the stats say different. For example Peter Duggan scored 17 points from placed balls in the quarter final.Next thing lads will want the stats of scores scored from the players strong side omitted.

C__MC · 29-05-2018 10:54am

savannahkat wrote: »

That is easy to answer. They are playing amongst each other so it would be harder to look bad than look good such is the quality of defending in Munster.

So your saying Leinster defending is better? Apart from Galway, I not sure. My question was that- the movement and pace of say Clare and cork forwards unit is streets ahead of Kilkenny if we take Sunday as an example. Kilkennys unit look static and weak. I’m
Just Curious as to why this is the case? Against Offaly, Kilkenny made hard work of them. That was a game where Kilkenny forward unit should of been tearing up Offalys defense. The athletism
and strength along with skill aspects say from cork Clare etc is well ahead of Kilkenny on current viewing

Village87 · 29-05-2018 11:51am

BORO BILL wrote: »

My biggest worry after sunday was the performance of the more established players. Buckley, murphy reid fogarty and fennelly were all poor and off the pace. The younger lads will have good and bad days but you need your main men to stand up and none did on sunday. Tiredness definitely an issue as wally and maher were some of our best and neither played the week before and scanlon had only his second start and looked fresh

I got slated last year for bringing that up last year. I do really like Padraig Walsh, TJ & Walter Walsh. Buckley having a very poor championship, Fogarty non existant last 2/3 years. Paul Murphy very limited hurling. Need these players to lead by eaxample not ask the younger players too

brookville · 29-05-2018 7:59pm

BORO BILL wrote: »

My biggest worry after sunday was the performance of the more established players. Buckley, murphy reid fogarty and fennelly were all poor and off the pace. The younger lads will have good and bad days but you need your main men to stand up and none did on sunday. Tiredness definitely an issue as wally and maher were some of our best and neither played the week before and scanlon had only his second start and looked fresh

Theres no doubt theres a hangover from the league final but i dont see cody changing buckley or walsh from the spine of our team and i think our fowards have struggled more against dublin and galway in particular our half foward line which was cleaned out.Id expect changes in that line the next day.
Our best performance this year was possibly against wexford after we had a week off while wexford were flat out against Galway and it could be the same this weekend so i wouldnt be losing all hope yet playing 3 championship matches in a row obviously takes it toll on amature players.This weekend off should help recovery and we should definitely be fresher taking on wexford at home.

Grats · 29-05-2018 8:26pm

SteJer wrote: »

Yesterday went pretty much along the lines I was expecting. If anything I thought it might even be worse. Galway really only pulled away in the last 15 minutes. Up to that we had every chance of winning. Galway showed their experience in the closing stages. They are in year 4 of their current system/style of play with practically the same panel of players. We are in our first year of a complete change in our style of play and with a lot of rookies.

The fact the game was in Salthill was always going to make it an even harder task. Overall it was a great learning experience for our younger players and I'm sure it will benefit them for the remainder of this year.

I would make some positional & personnel changes for the Wexford game. On their day Paul Murphy, Cillian Buckley and Padraig Walsh are up there with the best corner & wing backs in the country. None of them are currently playing in their best positions, which in my opinion weakens the team considerably.

The defence wasn't the biggest problem yesterday but I think moving these 3 players to their best positions will improve the overall balance and performance of the team. Mainly because Padraig Walsh & Cillian Buckley will push forward at every opportunity and either try take a score or give a good pass. This is something that neither Conor Delaney or Paul Murphy do at wing back. If at corner back Paul Murphy would provide great cover across the full back line, something which Joey Holden & Enda Morrissey don't really do.

Therefore my back 7 would be:

Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy
Conor Delaney
Paddy Deegan
Padraig Walsh
Jason Cleere
Cillian Buckley

With Richie Leahy not playing up to his standards at the moment I would leave the midfield pairing as:

James Maher
Conor Fogarty

However, I feel that they are very similar the way they play and we would be a much better team with an in form Richie Leahy driving forward at every opportunity whilst James Maher or Conor Fogarty helps out the defence.

The forwards are the biggest concern. Forgetting about positions for now the following should start against Wexford:

TJ Reid
Walter Walsh
Luke Scanlon

After that we have a number of experienced players currently playing well below their best for one reason or another, these are:

Colin Fennelly
Ger Alyward
Liam Blanchfield

Then we have a number of newer players who are so far struggling to get up to speed with championship hurling, these are:

Martin Keoghan
John Donnelly
Bill Sheehan

If Richie Hogan is fit he will start. He would be a very welcome addition and he might take some of the oppositions attention away from TJ Reid.

I'd like to see TJ Reid play less at centre forward and Walter Walsh play less at full forward. Colin Fennelly is a very good full forward on his day. It's hard to know if he'll be fit enough for the Wexford game but I'll assume he will be.

Therefore the six forwards and positions I'd go for are:

Walter Walsh
Richie Hogan
TJ Reid
Luke Scanlon
Colin Fennelly
Liam Blanchfield

I think we should be able to beat Wexford. Whether that takes us to a Leinster Final or qualifier only time will tell. Either way anything after that is continued bonus territory after our league title.

Fair play, lots of thought put into that post and plenty to digest. No doubt your post will be revisited and referred to in the next 10 days or so ahead of that crucial match against Wexford. A very positive post too I might add.

For now, I'm not so sure about Delaney at full back at this stage. I feel he may be too inexperienced this year. I wonder about Deegan at full back and Delaney in the corner. I'd love to think Cleere would be in the frame at this stage but he hadn't had any game time.

There is no argument though but that Paul Murphy, Padraig Walsh and Buckley have to be moved to their strongest positions and slot in around them.

If only Richie Leahy could find his true form it would give us more options in midfield and forwards. I wouldn't rule out Sheehan at all. He works his socks off and linked up well with Walter on occasions when others were missing.

Anyway, we'll return to this again.

peakedatU12 · 30-05-2018 8:51am

RayVaughan1984 wrote: »

Daithi Burke should really have got a straight red.He has form,ripping off Bonners helmet a few years ago.And Ref bottled it massively by failing to book McInerney.
Leahy certainly should start.

100% agree with this. If a deliberate full frontal, take-out charge is not a straight red .. what is the point of referees. There has to be a deterrent to protect players who are playing the type of hurling we all want to see. Instead there is praise and a sneaking regard for this sort of stuff. All fine till someone ends up with a serious neck or head injury. KK have been as guilty in the past.

Hawkeye6 · 30-05-2018 10:34am

Now that there is a break in the inter-county action and we are half way through the provincial section, I thought I’d stir the juices by bringing up that thorny subject of the Club Scene!! How are the various clubs dealing with the break? There was a good few football games last week, but it is quiet enough this week and I hear very little complaints. I also note that the CPA are noticeable by their silence during this period. Maybe the survey fillers might fill us in on what is happening at this time. I never did get an estimate on what people thought is a reasonable amount of “meaningful” games or what the CPA has planned for a Kilkenny solution. Have all the vocal club players left the country for the summer already?

babyjesus14 · 30-05-2018 1:09pm

peakedatU12 wrote: »

100% agree with this. If a deliberate full frontal, take-out charge is not a straight red .. what is the point of referees. There has to be a deterrent to protect players who are playing the type of hurling we all want to see. Instead there is praise and a sneaking regard for this sort of stuff. All fine till someone ends up with a serious neck or head injury. KK have been as guilty in the past.

Before the Championship the referees were given a directive that reckless and/or dangerous tackles around the head or neck were to be punishable with a red card with specific mention been made to the frontal charge.

In our three championship games so far there's been two incidents where Kilkenny players were the victims of frontal charges Liam Rushe on Paddy Deeegan (though Rushe could claim extenuating circumstances in that Deegan turned into him with his head down) and Burke on Scanlon (no such excuses he had him lined up from 20 yards away). The first resulted in no card and the second a yellow. Kevin Moran got a red for the exact same type of challenge on Tony Kelly last Sunday. Tis enough to make you paranoid!

minty81 · 30-05-2018 1:14pm

My team for Wex:
Murphy
P Murphy Walsh Deegan
Delaney Buckley Morrissey
Maher Fogarty
Leahy Wally Tj
Scanlon Fennelly Donnelly

I think have Wally in the centre to create a bit more space for Tj.
Fennelly cleaned Ryan last year at 14

Grats · 30-05-2018 1:54pm

minty81 wrote: »

My team for Wex:
Murphy
P Murphy Walsh Deegan
Delaney Buckley Morrissey
Maher Fogarty
Leahy Wally Tj
Scanlon Fennelly Donnelly

I think have Wally in the centre to create a bit more space for Tj.
Fennelly cleaned Ryan last year at 14

Is that what you'd like to see or what you think it might be? The reason I ask is that P Walsh and Buckley haven't performed to their high standard yet in the championship and I wonder, as mentioned by other posters, if they should be reverted to their best positions.

In my previous post I said I'd like to have Leahy started but he hasn't set the championship alight thus far.

Village87 · 30-05-2018 2:03pm

Grats wrote: »

Is that what you'd like to see or what you think it might be? The reason I ask is that P Walsh and Buckley haven't performed to their high standard yet in the championship and I wonder, as mentioned by other posters, if they should be reverted to their best positions.

In my previous post I said I'd like to have Leahy started but he hasn't set the championship alight thus far.

Kilkennys best performance of the year was against Tipperary in the League final. Richie Leahy & James Maher ran the show there. Get them out midfield, loads of hurling & mobility.

Grats · 30-05-2018 2:15pm

Village87 wrote: »

Kilkennys best performance of the year was against Tipperary in the League final. Richie Leahy & James Maher ran the show there. Get them out midfield, loads of hurling & mobility.

It's clear that a lot of the players who showed up well in the League have lost form so far in the championship. I'm prepared to give Leahy the benefit of the doubt but he has been well off form since the league. Others deserve the same opportunity.

What starting 15 would you like to see the next day?

savannahkat · 30-05-2018 4:13pm

As SteJer said the following 7 in the back
Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy
Conor Delaney
Paddy Deegan
Padraig Walsh
Jason Cleere
Cillian Buckley
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]After that [/font]
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maher Leahy[/font]
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Reid Walsh Donnelly[/font]
Blanchfield Fennelly Scanlan

savannahkat · 30-05-2018 4:13pm

As SteJer said the following 7 in the back
Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy
Conor Delaney
Paddy Deegan
Padraig Walsh
Jason Cleere
Cillian Buckley
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]After that [/font]
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maher Leahy[/font]
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Reid Walsh Donnelly[/font]
Blanchfield Fennelly Scanlan

minty81 · 30-05-2018 4:46pm

Grats wrote: »

minty81 wrote: »

My team for Wex:
Murphy
P Murphy Walsh Deegan
Delaney Buckley Morrissey
Maher Fogarty
Leahy Wally Tj
Scanlon Fennelly Donnelly

I think have Wally in the centre to create a bit more space for Tj.
Fennelly cleaned Ryan last year at 14

Is that what you'd like to see or what you think it might be? The reason I ask is that P Walsh and Buckley haven't performed to their high standard yet in the championship and I wonder, as mentioned by other posters, if they should be reverted to their best positions.

In my previous post I said I'd like to have Leahy started but he hasn't set the championship alight thus far.

A mixture of what I'd like to see and whats realistic. I'd prefer to see Delaney full and Padraig out on wing but thats not going to happen now.

Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 MOD NOTE POST 1*