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Prostitution: when is it going to be legalised and regulated?

[Deleted User]

Just wondering what the next campaign will be and this one seems like a nice safe one which won't affect the personal finances of "liberals" - unlike say a campaign to create a fair and equitable health system for all, which would be the biggest societal and ethical advance in Ireland since free education was introduced but would increase taxes and prevent our so-called liberal reformers from using their private health insurance to skip the health queue over somebody in more need, of course. Can't be having that sort of real reform!

So, keeping it safe, what possible arguments are there for the current situation of illegal prostitution and unregulated/unsafe/unhealthy brothels? It seems like madness that some of the most marginalised and vulnerable people in society can be exploited in so many ways. Surely, if only regulated prostitution and brothels were allowed it would benefit both the workers and clients - and damage the parasites who are currently exploiting all these people in sub standard accommodation? And if regulated strictly, it would reduce not only sexually transmitted diseases but it could provide supports to tackle the drug addiction issues associated with it. The innocent victims of this - i.e. families of clients who pass on STDs to them - would also be better off if prostitution were regulated. And the state would collect taxes, and extortionate profits for criminals would decrease. Yes, there will always be illegal brothels undercutting regulated, healthier legal brothels - the regulation will add to the cost - but that's for legislators and/or CAB to deal with. By regulating it, many lives will be improved.

I realise that in Britain prostitution, while legalised per se, is not regulated and that brothels are still illegal there and this divergence from whatever Britain does would shock what passes as "liberals" in Ireland. However, it makes much more sense to regulate prostitution and brothels (or whatever one wants to call them) than to just sacrifice the workers to the whims of the "private market" by making it "legal" but pretending the exploitation is not happening.

Good summary of existing European laws concerning prostitution: Prostitution in Europe

What possible arguments are there for not legalising and, more importantly, regulating prostitution in Ireland?

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Comments

anewme

scorching hemorrhoids wrote: »

what have the 2 high profile murders of the last week got to do with legalising prostitution?
have you got some info about said victims that no one else has?
what are you implying?

Read your own post about how legalising prostitution or women putting out on demand will stop lunatics killing people.

Because that's what's happened in Ireland in the past two weeks.

It's very poor taste and judgement.

I don't know what an incel is - I've never heard of it, seems like a complete nut job anyway.

irishanarchist

First it should be Decriminalised and then Legalised and Regulated. The situation is that in the last Campaign its the Sex Workers that Campaigned shall we say Mostly, In this Country there is no Party nor Individual talking up for men.. Some Man in the limelight should stand up and say " Men Need their occasional shag its human nature " That is what Men are Lacking 2 things Called Balls....Remember Lads and Lassies we are also among the 3rd of the population who do not have a say or representation our vote don't count....

Taytoland

Pugzilla wrote: »

SJW feminists ruin everything. Look what happened to Star Wars.......

Yep. Absolutely ruined The last Jedi. It's such utter bollocks and it should be called out on.

Ulysses Gaze

scorching hemorrhoids wrote: »

call a spade a spade
too much beating around the bush
the solution to incels on the warpath is clear

That's nonsense.

Most incels are not going to pay for hookers.

professore

anewme wrote: »

It's not going to be legalised any time soon no matter which way you look at it though.

Prostitution was only made illegal (or at least buying sex, selling is STILL legal) a few years ago. So that is a backwards move.

professore

Sunflower Lecithin wrote: »

Nobody is entitled to sex.

Nobody is entitled to anything.

Ulysses Gaze

irishanarchist wrote: »

First it should be Decriminalised and then Legalised and Regulated. The situation is that in the last Campaign its the Sex Workers that Campaigned shall we say Mostly, In this Country there is no Party nor Individual talking up for men.. Some Man in the limelight should stand up and say " Men Need their occasional shag its human nature " That is what Men are Lacking 2 things Called Balls....Remember Lads and Lassies we are also among the 3rd of the population who do not have a say or representation our vote don't count....

The male politician that said that would be finished politically.
They would be excoriated by the media.

Only ones I could see getting away with it are the Healy-Raes.
And they are not that dumb.

Only way it would work is if a female politician, feminist or group of feminists came out and stated that....

professore

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The male politician that said that would be finished politically.
They would be excoriated by the media.

Only ones I could see getting away with it are the Healy-Raes.
And they are not that dumb.

Only way it would work is if a female politician, feminist or group of feminists came out and stated that....

Surely the patriarchy would kick in and make it legal, and add a clause that women have to have sex with men when the men feel like it.

anewme

professore wrote: »

Prostitution was only made illegal (or at least buying sex, selling is STILL legal) a few years ago. So that is a backwards move.

That's my point.

There will be no about turn on this.

Taytoland

They want you to trust women on abortion, so why not trust women if they want to sell sex to consensual men? No one notice the utter hypocrisy on this?

A Pint of Goo

Muzzymor wrote: »

A woman should be free to do whatever she wants with her body.
I fail to see the non puritan reason for prostitution being illegal?
Perhaps some sexist men think that women can't be trusted to make intelligent decisions for themselves?

Can't blame men on this one. It's the sharia law feminists who want to keep it illegal.

Discodog

MikeyTaylor wrote: »

I think it's disgusting and exploitative.

Really ? There are literally hundreds of sex workers who say the opposite. maybe you believe Ruhama & assume that any woman, exercising free choice, must be trafficked or exploited.

Go on the Escort Ireland forum & ask or look back to where an Escort answered questions here.

Senator Norris got it right :

I also want to take up this business of Ruhama, and Stop the Red Light (sic). It’s time this type of nonsense was really, honestly addressed….Despite the puppeteering going on by this middle class collection of ex-nuns and radical feminists…98% of the women for whom the voices are being articulated by the self-appointed group are opposed completely to it….the police are against it, by and large. Everybody realises that it’s going to be inoperable, ineffective and going to lead to serious risks to the lives and welfare of women and men involved in the sex business. So yes, prostitution is messy, it’s regrettable but it’s a fact of life.

A Pint of Goo

artanevilla wrote: »

Men can be prostitutes too you know.

If a man visits a male prostitute then which one is the victim in that case? The one taking the woman's role?

anewme

Discodog wrote: »

Really ? There are literally hundreds of sex workers who say the opposite. maybe you believe Ruhama & assume that any woman, exercising free choice, must be trafficked or exploited.

Go on the Escort Ireland forum & ask or look back to where an Escort answered questions here.

In the main I believe that people can do what they like if it's two consenting adults.

However, youd have to question the happy hooker belief when the reality is that dangerous people believing if women don't give you sex when you want that women end up murdered like posted on this thread earlier and anyone who liked and agreed with the hateful and scary outlook could visit you.

That's worrying from a personal safety point of view.

Who would really want to put themselves at the mercy of people like that. ?

Discodog

anewme wrote: »

In the main I believe that people can do what they like if it's two consenting adults.

However, youd have to question the happy hooker belief when the reality is that dangerous people believing if women don't give you sex when you want that women end up murdered like posted on this thread earlier and anyone who liked and agreed with the hateful and scary outlook could visit you.

That's worrying from a personal safety point of view.

Who would really want to put themselves at the mercy of people like that. ?

So they are lying ? You know better what they really want they do ? Sounds like the 8th all over again.

anewme

Discodog wrote: »

So they are lying ? You know better what they really want they do ? Sounds like the 8th all over again.

I asked a question.

I'd like to know what people think about the personal safety aspect of it.

Unless you think the attitudes shown by the banned poster and those who agree with him are healthy and normal.

Maybe you might answer instead of bringing in 8th amendment agsin. 8th is repealed. Move along.

Discodog

anewme wrote: »

I asked a question.

I'd like to know what people think about the personal safety aspect of it.

Unless you think the attitudes shown by the banned poster and those who agree with him are healthy and normal.

Maybe you might answer instead of bringing in 8th amendment agsin. 8th is repealed. Move along.

The 8th may be repealed but all the organisations that fought to keep it haven't gone away. The only viewpoint we hear, regarding prostitution, is from Ruhama.

Street prostitution is incredibly dangerous & most only do it to feed their drug habit. Most private escorts are experienced in protection & security. Far more so than a girl who meets a guy on a date & then goes to his place.

Legalising it will greatly reduce street prostitution & increase security.

Maybe if you quote the "banned poster" I might know which posts you are referring to.

artanevilla

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

If a man visits a male prostitute then which one is the victim in that case? The one taking the woman's role?

What’s the woman’s role? Women can buy sex too.

A Pint of Goo

artanevilla wrote: »

What’s the woman’s role? Women can buy sex too.

You really don't know what the woman does during intercourse?

freshpopcorn

Something I'd be torn about to be honest and would find it hard to answer!

Herpes Free Since03

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

You really don't know what the woman does during intercourse?

"Sleeps" ... Bill Cosby

jaxxx

Discodog wrote: »

Really ? There are literally hundreds of sex workers who say the opposite. maybe you believe Ruhama & assume that any woman, exercising free choice, must be trafficked or exploited.

Go on the Escort Ireland forum & ask or look back to where an Escort answered questions here.

Senator Norris got it right :

I also want to take up this business of Ruhama, and Stop the Red Light (sic). It’s time this type of nonsense was really, honestly addressed….Despite the puppeteering going on by this middle class collection of ex-nuns and radical feminists…98% of the women for whom the voices are being articulated by the self-appointed group are opposed completely to it….the police are against it, by and large. Everybody realises that it’s going to be inoperable, ineffective and going to lead to serious risks to the lives and welfare of women and men involved in the sex business. So yes, prostitution is messy, it’s regrettable but it’s a fact of life.

Agreed. One thing I love about people who support Ruhama/think that Ruhama are in anyway genuine in their supposedly good intentioned goals, is that they seem to forget or more likely are ignorant to the fact that behind the scenes Ruhama are run by the same crowd behind the Magdalene Laundries. There is that old saying, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem and that is exactly what Ruhama are. And the same can be said for that website you mentioned as well.

I'd like to add though that it is refreshing to see that so many here would be in favour of full legalisation and regulation. A bit of common sense in a very taboo area.

Franz Von Peppercorn

jaxxx wrote: »

Agreed. One thing I love about people who support Ruhama/think that Ruhama are in anyway genuine in their supposedly good intentioned goals, is that they seem to forget or more likely are ignorant to the fact that behind the scenes Ruhama are run by the same crowd behind the Magdalene Laundries. There is that old saying, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem and that is exactly what Ruhama are. And the same can be said for that website you mentioned as well.

I'd like to add though that it is refreshing to see that so many here would be in favour of full legalisation and regulation. A bit of common sense in a very taboo area.

Really? Source?

The Magdalene Laundries were run by nuns.

Yamanoto

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Really? Source?

The Magdalene Laundries were run by nuns.

Both the Good Shepherd Sisters and the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity who ran many of the Magdalene laundries established Ruhama & remain heavily involved in the running of it.

Despite their oft-expressed concerns for the welfare of vulnerable women, both orders steadfastly refused to compensate or even meet with those representing women seeking redress for the abuse suffered at the hands of those religious organisations.

Pretty disgusting stuff tbh.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/laundry-orders-run-sex-workers-aid-group-1.606313

Franz Von Peppercorn

Yamanoto wrote: »

Both the Good Shepherd Sisters and the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity who ran many of the Magdalene laundries established Ruhama & remain heavily involved in the running of it.

Despite their oft-expressed concerns for the welfare of vulnerable women, both orders steadfastly refused to compensate or even meet with those representing women seeking redress for the abuse suffered at the hands of those religious organisations.

Pretty disgusting stuff tbh.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/laundry-orders-run-sex-workers-aid-group-1.606313

Interesting. However other feminist groups have called for the existing law.

jaxxx

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Interesting. However other feminist groups have called for the existing law.

And yet Amnesty International and the World Health Organsiation to name but a few, have called for the opposite.

"Feminists". Big difference between true feminists and false ones, and that is that false ones only care about their own agendas.

hatrickpatrick

I fully agree that there are dangerous scumbags out there who pose a particular danger to street prostitutes. That's why personally I'd like to see brothels licensed and legalised, where they could have something akin to hotel rooms with "panic buttons" and bouncer-type folks to protect the staff, sort out any such people and report them to the Gardaí.

Nidge from Love/Hate demonstrated how this could work in season four, when he first encountered Andrew The Dentist

Seriously though that's the logical next step for me. If you legalise prostitution, it makes more sense to legalise brothels as a licensed, commercial business which would have the same rights of refusal, security personnel and working relationship with the Gardaí as a nightclub or casino does. Keep everyone safe, and more importantly, warm - I ran into a prostitute on my way home after a night out at one of the locks of the grand canal, but it was on one of the coldest nights of this year - perhaps during the February cold snap, although it wasn't during the snow. I couldn't get over the idea of someone dressed like her sitting out in the cold all night long and living to tell the tale, must have been f*cking miserable. She asked me if I was "looking for business" and I actually almost felt like a dick for declining seeing as I was probably the only living soul mad enough not to take a cab home that night

Just joked that it was "wayyy too cold tonight, sorry" and kept walking. Personally I'd have no interest in transactional sex of any kind, but thought it'd be kinder not to say so.

If such people were legally allowed to work in a commercial environment with warmth and professional security, surely that would be the best solution. It was really sad to think of that woman - who was well spoken and had a cheery tone, although obviously that was probably put on for marketing purposes - freezing herself half to death sitting alone and bored on an empty canal lock all night hoping someone might wander her way.

Franz Von Peppercorn

jaxxx wrote: »

And yet Amnesty International and the World Health Organsiation to name but a few, have called for the opposite.

"Feminists". Big difference between true feminists and false ones, and that is that false ones only care about their own agendas.

No true Scotsman..

Neither amnesty or the WHO are feminists.

jaxxx

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

No true Scotsman..

Neither amnesty or the WHO are feminists.

Never said they were...? Obviously because they're organisations.... And..... generally organisations aren't..... feminists.

Ok I'm confused.

Franz Von Peppercorn

jaxxx wrote: »

Never said they were...? Obviously because they're organisations.... And..... generally organisations aren't..... feminists.

Ok I'm confused.

I think we both are. In a response to my mentioning feminist organisations it was you, not I that mentioned amnesty and the WHO.

Yes I should have said that those organisations were not feminist, not not feminists

But I think you could have worked that out.