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Child Item

The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

Captain Obvious

The current reports are indicating this poor young girl was subject to an awful death. I don't want to engage in speculation about the events. I hope justice is done and her family and friends find some peace.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mobile-phone-and-clothing-of-murdered-schoolgirl-ana-14-yield-vital-clues-to-identifying-killer-36921646.html

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bessboroughboy

Homer wrote: »

Hopefully the guards/authorities will be able to trace everybody allegedly involved in this despicable crime though texts/whatsapp/social media and really make an example of them and let every kid in Ireland know the consequences for their actions. Some of them may not have been at the scene of the crime but may have contributed to this poor girls tragic death.

Definitely, I think the points you have raised are crucial.

The state's response, hopefully, will be to recognise this atrocity as being beyond comprehension, to quarantine these two non-functioning entities from normal society forever and to let others know that they will be castigated forever for anything that remotely approaches this level of evil.

Ana's potential contribution to society was immense, the potential contribution of these two, who were too stupid to understand their place in the scheme of things (the bottom) is obviously zero.

tayto lover

Wombatman wrote: »

They are probably schooled well enough to know that AGS will never know the facts of what happened unless one of them talks.

Teens record everything on phones these days though.

Read a bit about crime scenes and DNA.
You'd be amazed at what they can tell.

iamwhoiam

billybonkers wrote: »

Let us not forget that these "kids" carried out this horrific crime and quite obviously made a story up between them to deflect attention away from themselves. They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. No remorse shown.

Two cases come to mind where two kids murdered a child and each blamed the other for the act .
Mary Bell and Norma Bell and Robert Thompson and Jon Venables

Riskymove

dorado99 wrote: »

Would DNA not be enough proof?

it woulkd prove they were there but not exaclty what happened or why

for example they could blame each other or a third party

tayto lover

billybonkers wrote: »

Let us not forget that these "kids" carried out this horrific crime and quite obviously made a story up between them to deflect attention away from themselves. They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. No remorse shown.

They also left her lying out there for 3 days. That takes some doing.
The parents must have suspected or quizzed them themselves after she was reported missing. Most right thinking people would make them say what happened but then again they might be so shocked and numb themselves that they refused to believe it.

Ken.

dorado99 wrote: »

Would DNA not be enough proof?

I am almost 40. If you found my dried blood at a scene it would contain my DNA. There is no test that could tell you if I left if there yesterday or 20 years ago.

Senature

iamwhoiam wrote: »

evolving_doors wrote: »

I'm not referring to this case in particular, but when people go to those extremes I think it had to come from somewhere and they are acting out abuse or neglect they are experiencing.
I don't know how I'd feel about subjecting the perpetrators to more of the same, would that rehabilitate?

Not always the case . I could name one case here in my own neighbourhood. Lovely home , lovely parents , great siblings and extended family . Early on one lad showed tendency to anger , was known on the GAA scene for being rough. Kids knew to avoid conflict with him in secondary school
In leaving cert year age 17 he killed a boy his own age in a fit of temper over a girl . There was nothing at all to cause him to act out

Surely you realise you don't know every single thing that ever happened to that person? Or any other person... only yourself. Anyway, I hope that the investigation results in Ana's family feeling justice is served, far more important than what any of us on boards think.

Cunning Stunt

They have to charge or release them today according to RTE. Parents are staying with their kids in custody and are there during questioning.
God, as a parent myself, I cant imagine how they must be feeling

iamwhoiam

Senature wrote: »

Surely you realise you don't know every single thing that ever happened to that person? Or any other person... only yourself. Anyway, I hope that the investigation results in Ana's family feeling justice is served, far more important than what any of us on boards think.

yes thanks I do realise that .But it cannot always be traced to poor parenting and interestingly the lad who did this deed has also said he cannot put his rage down to any abuse or neglect .

iamwhoiam

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

They have to charge or release them today according to RTE. Parents are staying with their kids in custody and are there during questioning.
God, as a parent myself, I cant imagine how they must be feeling

Two 13 year olds , its almost unimaginable to think how I would react . Would I hate him or love him or both ? Would I find strength to fully support him ?

Wombatman

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

They have to charge or release them today according to RTE. Parents are staying with their kids in custody and are there during questioning.
God, as a parent myself, I cant imagine how they must be feeling

I would expect the parents and legal representatives will be there during questioning.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/most-arrested-not-availing-of-right-to-solicitor-presence-at-questioning-1.3229668

DellyBelly

wakka12 wrote: »

I was surprised it wasnt on Biritsh news at least. Jastines murder was on british news

I think it has been on the British news. I think I saw it mentioned on BBC Northern Ireland news not sure if Sky picked it up?

[Deleted User]

I dunno, it's in the paper that one turned up in school acting normal while the search was on. They treated her as if she was a stray neighborhood dog they'd tortured and killed, absolutely no remorse should be shown to them.

Posters here are correct, they'll trip themselves up with social media and the likes, some kids cannot hold their piss for want of bragging or spreading lies etc.
I'd say some of the others involved but on the periphery of the crime are also quaking now. I said it before, it's like that movie Carrie, but much worse obviously. Some bitchy girls get lads in involved to lure her to some place in order to humiliate her. Make sense because direct invitations from the bullies would have been ignored, they may have used her desperation to be liked against her...how fooking cruel can you get really...im getting angrier as I type here..

Neyite

Wombatman wrote: »

They are probably schooled well enough to know that AGS will never know the facts of what happened unless one of them talks.

Teens record everything on phones these days though.

Kids can and do lie - fairly convincingly and often continue to lie when they are blatantly caught rapid in their lies, part of being a kid. For sure if 2 or more are involved, each defence solicitor will seek to put as much of the crime on the other child involved.

But I agree that their electronics and the DNA at the crime scene will do the talking and get the Gardai the truth of what happened. It was rather odd phrasing of the Gardai to state a "treasure trove of forensics was at the scene" quite early on after her body was found. I think that was deliberate on the part of the Gardai.

tayto lover wrote: »

They also left her lying out there for 3 days. That takes some doing.
The parents must have suspected or quizzed them themselves after she was reported missing. Most right thinking people would make them say what happened but then again they might be so shocked and numb themselves that they refused to believe it.

When a young woman or child goes missing you either think it's a runaway or an adult male kidnapped them and you can usually tell by the way the Garda investigation is described in the media which one it is. You don't generally look at your son who's barely into puberty and go "I bet it was him". You'd be thinking "how can I protect MY child from this evil predator stalking our kids" Any out of character behaviour in the home you'd put down to the child being affected by one of his peers/ friends going missing and the general mood in the school because of it.

whelan2

Wombatman wrote: »

They are probably schooled well enough to know that AGS will never know the facts of what happened unless one of them talks.

Teens record everything on phones these days though.

Surely there'll be Snapchat records of conversations between them on their phones. Most teenagers can't leave their phones down for a few minutes. I can't understand why they just wouldn't put their hands up and admit it. Must be so hard on her family

sbsquarepants

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

I'm sure nobody there woke up that morning and said they were going to kill someone. .

I wouldn't be so sure, and I'm not sure it even makes any difference - if ALL they wanted to do was rape and batter her, does that make them any better? These kids are scum - the how's and why's of that I don't know, but the fact that they are scum is entirely self evident.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Why? What if he is genuinely rehabilitated

What if he is?

Some crimes are so heinous that they are just unforgiveable. There's rehabilitation but there is also punishment.

corner of hells

Wombatman wrote: »

The lads have had plenty of time to get their story straight and have probably been well schooled by lawyers to boot.

Probably , but they're going to be interviewed by fairly seasoned detectives who do this as a career.

My money would be on the detectives not two 14 year olds.

Hector Savage

two 13 year old boys ..... jesus h christ, what is happening to society ??

Ush1

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure, and I'm not sure it even makes any difference - if ALL they wanted to do was rape and batter her, does that make them any better? These kids are scum - the how's and why's of that I don't know, but the fact that they are scum is entirely self evident.

What if he is?

Some crimes are so heinous that they are just unforgiveable. There's rehabilitation but there is also punishment.

Doesn't that temper your response a bit though? Horrendous crime but they are still kids.

EarlSlick

Interesting timing for the arrests. I wonder did they wait for the day of the referendum so as to avoid the full glare of the media

Textronic

I wonder are the parents sitting on the fence letting the lawyers handle things

They should be pushing for their kids to tell everything they know

Wombatman

whelan2 wrote: »

Surely there'll be Snapchat records of conversations between them on their phones. Most teenagers can't leave their phones down for a few minutes. I can't understand why they just wouldn't put their hands up and admit it. Must be so hard on her family

Snaps are automatically deleted from servers after it is detected that a Snap has been opened by all recipients or has expired.

Snaps remain on their servers until all recipients have opened them. If one recipient doesn’t open the Snap for a week, the Snap will stay on their servers for that week. If a Snap isn’t opened for 30 days, it expires and is deleted.

Textronic

EarlSlick wrote: »

Interesting timing for the arrests. I wonder did they wait for the day of the referendum so as to avoid the full glare of the media

Nothing to do with it

If they get released without charge the investigation is done for,more than likely

megatron989

Cases like this prove that we have some serious problems in this country. And I'm not talking problems with males I'm talking problems with scum. This is where years of scum getting away with everything is leading us. The perpetrators in this case are little more than animals who should be locked up for the rest of their natural lives.
I don't buy any of this "sure their only children they don't know any better" nonsense either.
How do kids get to a place where they think this type of carry on is ok? Where they not taught any morality at all? No of course not, kids bring them selves up now obviously. When will people cop on?

sbsquarepants

Ush1 wrote: »

Doesn't that temper your response a bit though? Horrendous crime but they are still kids.

In a word no.

I can forgive my teenager loosing the head and telling me he hates me, (I've 2 teenagers, they've both hated me on many occasions:D) or throwing a tantrum and smashing something, even getting into fights and possibly hurting someone.

I can't and won't forgive him raping and murdering a child though - not a hope in hell.

Wombatman

Textronic wrote: »

Nothing to do with it

If they get released without charge the investigation is done for,more than likely

Not at all. They can still be changed later. They just can't be held any longer if they have not been charged.

Probably waiting for burial before ramping things up.

Textronic

Wombatman wrote: »

Not at all. They can still be changed later. They just can't be held any longer if they have not been charged.

Probably waiting for burial before ramping things up.

They can be charged later but a release means they don't have enough evidence

Burial has nothing to do with it

Captain Obvious

Textronic wrote: »

Nothing to do with it

If they get released without charge the investigation is done for,more than likely

No that is not correct.

EarlSlick

megatron989 wrote: »

Cases like this prove that we have some serious problems in this country. And I'm not talking problems with males I'm talking problems with scum. This is where years of scum getting away with everything is leading us. The perpetrators in this case are little more than animals who should be locked up for the rest of their natural lives.
I don't buy any of this "sure their only children they don't know any better" nonsense either.
How do kids get to a place where they think this type of carry on is ok? Where they not taught any morality at all? No of course not, kids bring them selves up now obviously. When will people cop on?

As horrific as this case is I don't think it is a fair representation of society. You see despicable and reprehensible cases such as this every ten years or so in a lot of Western societies (granted this is a first for Ireland that I am aware of)

Ush1

sbsquarepants wrote: »

In a word no.

I can forgive my teenager loosing the head and telling me he hates me, (I've 2 teenagers, they've both hated me on many occasions:D) or throwing a tantrum and smashing something, even getting into fights and possibly hurting someone.

I can't and won't forgive him raping and murdering a child though - not a hope in hell.

Fair enough but I wasn't really talking about forgiveness, just that I don't think you can treat a 13 year old the same as an adult who has committed a crime.