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Ireland to pay over €3bn per year to the EU

Kermit.de.frog

"Net contributor" may sound nice and it is because it gives clout. But...

It has a nice price tag too!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-s-eu-budget-contribution-may-rise-to-over-3bn-1.3486204

Irexit? We could pay €3bn per year to the HSE

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super_furry

The benefits outweigh the costs.

Allinall

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

"Net contributor" may sound nice and it is because it gives clout. But...

It has a nice price tag too!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-s-eu-budget-contribution-may-rise-to-over-3bn-1.3486204

Irexit? We could pay €3bn per year to the HSE

We already pay over €13 bn to the HSE.

Why would we give them another €3bn to waste?

_Kaiser_

super_furry wrote: »

The benefits outweigh the costs.

While things are rosy.. Yea (at least from an economic perspective anyway)

But we've seen already what happens to countries like ourselves when things go badly, and the attitudes from the big 2 towards dissent.

There's also the unresolved migration issue (although the headlines have mostly faded), the ongoing complaints about our tax system, being stuck in the middle of the UK/EU spat over Brexit, and the reality that we're nowhere near as influential in Brussels as we are often told by our local government.

But Irexit would be a mess so we're somewhat stuck with the situation. I still think that the only way Europe will work out long term though is a rollback on the USofE notions and a move back to being just a trade bloc with common interests.

Greybottle

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

"Net contributor" may sound nice and it is because it gives clout. But...

It has a nice price tag too!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-s-eu-budget-contribution-may-rise-to-over-3bn-1.3486204

Irexit? We could pay €3bn per year to the HSE

They'd probably have to promote a load of lower managers to higher management to work out how to spend the €3 billion and that would probably end up costing us €3.5 billion.

I doubt much of it would trickle down to vital services.

RobbingBandit

How much funding and business do we get in return

everlast75

Should we get that printed up on the side of a big red bus?

[Deleted User]

If only there was some other country exiting the EU so that we could examine the issues that might occur from doing that.

Kermit.de.frog

€3bn is a lot of money for a country the size of Ireland.

We will be funding motorways in Poland.

But then the argument is they gave us money (not Poland)...

Still I do think this could be contentious for the Irish public as we move forward. Our contribution will only increase.

Sultan_of_Ping

We may contribute an amount but what we get back far outweighs that contribution - in terms of access to one of the largest, richest markets in the world.

Plus, if you think the downturn was bad under the EU, think of absolutely disastrous it would've been if our gombeen politicians had not been fettered by the discipline imposed by the EU........we'd have been Venezuela without the oil or the sunshine.

Plus, plus, I wonder how much our ongoing borrowing costs would be if we didn't have the Euro, the ECB etc to operate with?

RDM_83 again

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

While things are rosy.. Yea (at least from an economic perspective anyway)

.

Things aren't rosy though, we are already staring down the barrel of the next recession and this time there is no slack, Italy, Spain and Greece (and arguably Ireland) can't handle another crisis but we are likely due one.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eurozone-economy-pmi/euro-zone-business-slowdown-suggests-best-days-may-be-over-idUSKCN1IO184

Harry Palmr

Is this a troll thread? Ireland used to be dirt poor and received billions, now it's comparatively rich and so is paying in to help others who are poor.

Peregrinus

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Things aren't rosy though, we are already staring down the barrel of the next recession and this time there is no slack, Italy, Spain and Greece (and arguably Ireland) can't handle another crisis but we are likely due one.

And would we rather face it as a member of the EU, or having drunk the Brexit cool-aid?

This is a no-brainer. If we follow the UK out of the EU, the resulting contraction in our economy will cost the economy far, far more than €3bn per year, and there will be a corresponding drop in tax revenues. Irexit won't give us more money to put into the health services (or anything else); it will give us less.

That's what's going to happen in the UK. Why would we expect it to be any different here?

[Deleted User]

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Still I do think this could be contentious for the Irish public as we move forward. Our contribution will only increase.

It's 1% of our GDP. Irish people aren't stupid enough to give up the benefits of the EU when our GDP would crumble far more than that.

The UK may have forgotten life before the EU but we haven't.

Kermit.de.frog

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Is this a troll thread? Ireland used to be dirt poor and received billions, now it's comparatively rich and so is paying in to help others who are poor.

At €3bn per year that argument lasts for how many years? 4?

After that it's good money after bad?

I'm playing devils advocate here but I do think in the near future this will become an issue in politics here.

[Deleted User]

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

At €3bn per year that argument lasts for how many years? 4?

After that it's good money after bad?

I'm playing devils advocate here but I do think in the near future this will become an issue in politics here.

You're not playing devil's advocate. You're playing the idiot down the pub.

Do you think our economy is worse off being in the EU because of that 3bn? A simple yes or no will tell us all we need to know.

Peregrinus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

At €3bn per year that argument lasts for how many years? 4?

After that it's good money after bad?

No. If we leave the EU our economy will contract, and it will stay contracted unless and until we rejoin the EU. So our GDP will be (say) 4% less than it otherwise would have been, each year, indefinitely. So we'd save 3bn each year in contributions to the EU, but lose 12bn each in lost productivity - a net loss of 9bn each year. This isn't a situation that ever reverses itself unless we can find some magic way in which we become more productive outside the EU than we could be inside it.

I've picked the 4% figure out of the air but, to be honest, it's a modest estimate of the cost to us of leaving. It's estimated that simply moving from the common market to the single market in the 1990s raised GDP in the EU countries by between 3% and 6%. It stands to reason that leaving both the single market and the common market would result in an even larger fall in GDP.

Irexit is an even more stupid idea than Brexit. And, as you can imagine, that's measuring it against a pretty high bar in stupidity.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

You're not playing devil's advocate. You're playing the idiot down the pub.

Do you think our economy is worse off being in the EU because of that 3bn? A simple yes or no will tell us all we need to know.

I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing.

What is your economic expertise?

Deiseen

As an Irish person living in the UK and experiencing the effects of Brexit in real-time, I can tell you right now, anyone who thinks that Ireland should leave the EU needs to completely f**k off for themselves.
Debate is good but and healthy. But to try and invent that there would be some kind of weird benefits to leaving the EU is just pure codology.

[Deleted User]

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing.

What is your economic expertise?

You don't need economic expertise to know the Irish economy is built upon its access to the Single Market. Though I do have a degree that focused on International Economics, I can't remember anything from it and don't work in anything related to it.

The onus is on you to explain how it isn't worth the 3bn we have to contribute. Everyone else "knows" we benefit enormously so convince us we're wrong.

diggerdigger

I think a real question is whether is worth us having the likes of Google, Apple or Facebook revenue counting towards our GDP really helps us at all.

Massive GDP "contributions" by funneling revenues and IP here, driving up EU contributions ultimately
But minimal corporate taxes paid on those revenues

Yes, there are well paid jobs, which

driving up property prices for all,
yes supporting other jobs,
but also impacting wages rates and our overall domestic competitiveness.

Is it really just imagined productivity. I'd love to see some proper unbiased economic analysis.

Yakult

#Irestay

wes

We have received funds for years. Only fair, that now we are in the position to contribute that we should do so.

Ireland has benefited greatly from EU membership, and as we can see via the absolute chaos (due to the utter incompetence and stupidity of Brexiters) that is Brexit in the UK, we are far better in than out.

irishrover99

It still amazes me that people forget what a ****hole Ireland was before the we joined the single currency.

questionmark?

Deiseen wrote: »

As an Irish person living in the UK and experiencing the effects of Brexit in real-time, I can tell you right now, anyone who thinks that Ireland should leave the EU needs to completely f**k off for themselves.
Debate is good but and healthy. But to try and invent that there would be some kind of weird benefits to leaving the EU is just pure codology.

Care to explain the effects first hand? Zombies on the street? No jobs? Boris Johnson humping you before breakfast?

BailMeOut

With Britain leaving our membership to the EU is more important than ever and €3bn is cheap as chips considering what we get access to.

topper75

The Irish electorate were lead to believe throughout the 70s/80s/90s that there was such a thing as a free lunch.

The Irish body politic sold this line and it was bought wholesale. EU membership is starting to slowly clarify since the 2008 business (which really began in 2004 or so with low ECB rates that we were locked into).

_Kaiser_

wes wrote: »

We have received funds for years. Only fair, that now we are in the position to contribute that we should do so.

Ireland has benefited greatly from EU membership, and as we can see via the absolute chaos (due to the utter incompetence and stupidity of Brexiters) that is Brexit in the UK, we are far better in than out.

We are? Did I miss where we had paid off the debt we were saddled with, or had fixed the serious domestic problems we have?

Ireland like to think of itself as a big key player in these things.. but the reality is it's a small island on the edge of Europe that's only notable in Europe because of how many MNCs are here for tax benefits... it's not because "everyone loves the Irish". We already saw what happened when the economy fell apart - effectively "you'll do what your told!". Yep, we're sure at the heart of things!

Ireland will face a much tougher time if Brexit does go through, but I very much doubt our EU "friends" will be too bothered once the dust of their argument with the UK has settled.

wes

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

We are? Did I miss where we had paid off the debt we were saddled with, or had fixed the serious domestic problems we have?

Plenty of countries have debt. We are able to handle it now, and its our own governments fault that they took on private debt.

Other countries also have various issue. We are in a position to pay now.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ireland like to think of itself as a big key player in these things.. but the reality is it's a small island on the edge of Europe that's only notable in Europe because of how many MNCs are here for tax benefits... it's not because "everyone loves the Irish". We already saw what happened when the economy fell apart - effectively "you'll do what your told!". Yep, we're sure at the heart of things!

No one actually think we are a bigger player

. Yeah, now imagine how badly our economy would fall a part if we weren't in the EU.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ireland will face a much tougher time if Brexit does go through, but I very much doubt our EU "friends" will be too bothered once the dust of their argument with the UK has settled.

If thing go badly for us, we will once again be a net recipient of EU funds.

Sultan_of_Ping

diggerdigger wrote: »

I think a real question is whether is worth us having the likes of Google, Apple or Facebook revenue counting towards our GDP really helps us at all.
Massive GDP "contributions" by funneling revenues and IP here, driving up EU contributions ultimately

But minimal corporate taxes paid on those revenues

Yes, there are well paid jobs, which
driving up property prices for all,

yes supporting other jobs,

but also impacting wages rates and our overall domestic competitiveness.

pay direct and indirect taxes

Is it really just imagined productivity. I'd love to see some proper unbiased economic analysis.

Fyp

DEFTLEFTHAND

Our corporation tax will have to be looked at in the near future.

That could create a bit of tension.