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Work issue with holidays

Steven Seagal

So I work in an IT job where my shifts are 3 days on, 2 days off, and have been saving my paid holidays for an extended trip away with my gf.
It would be 8 paid days off in total and mentioned it to my boss a few months back and told me to just fill in our usual PTO Form and ask him to sign it closer to the time.
So last week I filled it in and he told me his boss is now the one approving time off requests and she needs to sign off on it but had refused my request.
I told my boss the purpose of the trip was to propose to my gf and the holiday was all inclusive and non refundable, I have paid near 8k for this. He was very sympathetic and saod he would have approved it no prob but his boss still refused.
Just before Christmas another person on my team took 11 pto days off in a row and we werent informed of any changes to the lengths we were allowed to take at a time.

Any ideas what my options are here???
It’s a very expensive loss if I cant go and would seriously consider resigning over it.

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Steven Seagal

_brendand_ wrote: »

What stopped you from formally booking the leave before dropping massive euros for the holiday?

We can only do 6 month blocs for holidays, winter and summer.

Tigger wrote: »

You work 3 on two off?
How many hours a day

It’s 12 hour shifts then we hand over to the US at the end of each shift.
So we either do 36 or 48hrs per week.

lisasimpson

Steven Seagal wrote: »

We can only do 6 month blocs for holidays, winter and summer. /quote]

So what happens when staff get married and want to go on honeymoom straight away after it?

Tigger

Steven Seagal wrote: »

We can only do 6 month blocs for holidays, winter and summer.

It’s 12 hour shifts then we hand over to the US at the end of each shift.
So we either do 36 or 48hrs per week.

I don’t understand
If you work Monday Tuesday Wednesday
Off Thursday Friday
On sat Sunday
That’s 60 hours
Next week on m
Off t w
On t f s
Off s that’s 48
Next week
In that pattern is 48 again ?
Are Sunday’s free or something !?

testicles

This post has been deleted.

Meeoow

How many days will you be off in total? I assume that if you are using 8 days holidays, but you work 3 on, 2 off and you've swapped days with another employee, you will be off for a few weeks? Is that right?

Fann Linn

testicles wrote: »

Not in this case, there is no employment regulation order, registered employment agreement, collective agreement and there's certainly no agreement between the employee and his or her employer

There is however 'custom and practice', which has been illustrated by another member of staff, less than 6 months ago getting the 11 consecutive days off.

The op should get in touch with WRC/Nera and have a word with them.

fritzelly

I could understand if you were working in the catering industry and wanted to take Xmas and New Year off but IT - seriously, what is so important that it could not wait 2 weeks? If it is so important why do they not have a back up in case of sickness etc.
Seems like someone just being a so and so for the sake of it especially knowing the purpose of the trip.
My sentiments with a lot of the other posters above - is this job really worth it, but makes it harder applying for a new job

mrslancaster

OP if you want to take 8 days holidays would that be a 3 day week plus a 2 day week then a 3 day week? So would you be gone for a full 3 weeks?

Do you have an employee handbook - what does it say about when/how to request holidays.

You are entitled to 2 weeks unbroken after 8 months in any leave year - some companies run a leave year from jan to dec & some from your start date so it depends. When was your last holidays?

mrcheez

It sounds pretty clear cut.

You were told you could have the time off by your senior (whatever about them not checking THEIR senior is on their head).

You booked a non-refundable trip based on the promise that you would have the time off.

You cannot get the money back, and the company (represented via the senior above you) had promised you would have the time off, so you HAVE to go on the trip.

If the head boss makes it an issue, I'd seriously consider moving company after returning from the trip. There are much better IT companies out there.

Steven Seagal

Thanks for all the replies, my immediate manager asked me this morning what I was going to do if I couldn’t get this approved and told him it would leave me no choice but to look for a new job. He wasn’t surprised and told me he would push as much as he could but not to be expecting good news.

jamesbere

Steven Seagal wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, my immediate manager asked me this morning what I was going to do if I couldn’t get this approved and told him it would leave me no choice but to look for a new job. He wasn’t surprised and told me he would push as much as he could but not to be expecting good news.

Your better off out of there, that's an awful way to treat an employee. Enjoy your holiday and wish you well with the proposal.

davo10

jamesbere wrote: »

Your better off out of there, that's an awful way to treat an employee. Enjoy your holiday and wish you well with the proposal.

To be fair, this policy applies in most workplaces. You don't book expensive holidays until you have confirmation that you have the days off. From my reading of the op, his boss didn't actually confirm the leave when asked earlier in the year, the op was told to submit the request and has only done so recently.

The op telling the boss that he is going to leave probably won't help, his boss is now in a difficult situation. If they allow the op the AL, everyone in future will use the same threat if they don't get the days they want, the bosses may be afraid to set that precedent and may just say to the op, "off you go" in order to lay down a marker.

There is of course another possibility, considering the boss knew in advance and knows the importance of the days to the op, they may actually be hoping the op leaves.

SortingYouOut

Steven Seagal wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, my immediate manager asked me this morning what I was going to do if I couldn’t get this approved and told him it would leave me no choice but to look for a new job. He wasn’t surprised and told me he would push as much as he could but not to be expecting good news.

You were dead right in doing so. I hate that carry on when it comes to companies forgetting about life/work balance. As if you were born to spend your days in there.

As others have said, there's better out there, especially in IT.

This could be the best thing that ever happened to you OP.

con___manx1

Its up to the company to provide cover not you. The way the economy is now the employees have much more power than in d recession than the employer . Id hold them to randsom and say if you dont give the 2 weeks off good luck. Plenty of IT companys around. Id say the msnager who you had a verbal agreement with leave and who said he wouldnt blame you for leaving could give you a refrence sounds like a descent manager.

runawaybishop

When do you need to go away and when does your holiday period reset, is it jan-dec?

Tefral

OP, there's always another job. I am working doing up a Hospice at the moment and every now and again you'd get stopped by someone fr a quick chat, I am looking at people at the end of their life and they all say "Make sure you don't work too hard" and it really puts things into perspective.

Go on your hols and don't give a fiddlers. Hard to imagine being like that but I think you'll get a slap on the wrist and on you go. Wont matter in the grans scheme of things.

hots

Tell them to poke the job, you gave plenty of notice, and loads of time to sort out cover, you're not asking for 6 months off like. With any luck they'll value you enough to see sense, if not their loss.

jamesbere

davo10 wrote: »

To be fair, this policy applies in most workplaces. You don't book expensive holidays until you have confirmation that you have the days off. From my reading of the op, his boss didn't actually confirm the leave when asked earlier in the year, the op was told to submit the request and has only done so recently.

The op telling the boss that he is going to leave probably won't help, his boss is now in a difficult situation. If they allow the op the AL, everyone in future will use the same threat if they don't get the days they want, the bosses may be afraid to set that precedent and may just say to the op, "off you go" in order to lay down a marker.

There is of course another possibility, considering the boss knew in advance and knows the importance of the days to the op, they may actually be hoping the op leaves.

I agree up to point but his manager shouldn't of said it would be ok if there was going to be an issue. Even though verbal agreements aren't aren't totally binding it will still give the employee an impression the time off is ok to go ahead.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I'd actually consider a meeting with a solicitor if I was in the ops position.

approved leave
book 8k non refundable holidays
cancel leave

that said the verbal aproval may be worth the paper its written on in terms of legal action

davo10

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I'd actually consider a meeting with a solicitor if I was in the ops position.

approved leave
book 8k non refundable holidays
cancel leave

But was leave approved? Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but wasn't op told to put in a written request, which was only recently submitted after holiday booked?

Legally, holiday leave dates are at the discretion of the employer, taking into account family considerations, but this could hardy qualify.

modmuffin

You need to request a meeting with your bosses boss, explain in a clear, calm and rational way what has transpired.
Apologise for the misunderstanding, nobodies fault etc, and then give her an option to reflect and to approve leave.

If she argues with facts (such as company procedure etc) - use emotion (ie intent to propose, financial burden etc)
If she argues with emotion (no cover for the company etc) - use facts.

Either way she will respect you more for addressing the issue head on in a calm and measured way.

If you don't get approved, hand in your notice with your head held-high, but do so having worked towards a solution (as opposed to throwing toys out of the pram).

Also - remember its a pain in the ass for the company to replace you too. A couple of weeks inconvenience is a small price to pay.

Finally, if you do leave - make sure to do an exit interview with HR and explain exactly the circumstances for your departure. (If I found out one of my managers behaved this way they would face disciplinary.)

Pelvis

You sure they don't want you to hand in your notice?

Steven Seagal

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I'd actually consider a meeting with a solicitor if I was in the ops position.

approved leave
book 8k non refundable holidays
cancel leave

that said the verbal aproval may be worth the paper its written on in terms of legal action

Got rejected fully a half an hour ago and the Sept schedule was sent out with me on it for the days I was hoping to be off.
I’ll try and schedule a meeting with my immediate manager and HR but sadly our only HR representative for the irish office is very difficult to deal with.

Pelvis

Steven Seagal wrote: »

Got rejected fully a half an hour ago and the Sept schedule was sent out with me on it for the days I was hoping to be off.
I’ll try and schedule a meeting with my immediate manager and HR but sadly our only HR representative for the irish office is very difficult to deal with.

I'd be leaving, but I wouldn't tell them that until the day before you go off on holiday.

Steven Seagal

Pelvis wrote: »

You sure they don't want you to hand in your notice?

I wouldn’t think so as it’s quite a small team and training up someone new on our systems can take a very long time.
Our team of 5 has never had the support of the manager that rejected my request and we had some heated meetings as a whole but I can’t think of any personal reasons.

Jim2007

Steven Seagal wrote: »

Got rejected fully a half an hour ago and the Sept schedule was sent out with me on it for the days I was hoping to be off.
I’ll try and schedule a meeting with my immediate manager and HR but sadly our only HR representative for the irish office is very difficult to deal with.

If you want to go on leave, then stop pussy footing around!

Send an email to all three of them, inform them that based on the verbal approval of your manager you have already booked your holidays and they now have a choice of either confirming your leave or fulling compensating you for all your costs. The alternative is that you will seek legal advice on how to recover your costs from the company or failing that from them individually.

Personally I find that nothing brings managers to their sense so quickly as when they realise they many have to justify their actions in a court of law and will not be able to hide by hind their company.

Heres Johnny

HR person hard to deal with.
Manager approving holidays hard to deal with.
IT workers, assuming you've some skills that aren't in huge supply.

All those things above......get out of there. They don't care about you.
I'm self employed for years. Worked hard but took all the holidays and time off I want. Could never go back to this bull**** again.

J Mysterio

Steven Seagal wrote: »

All she told me was it was too long to take in one go and she just walked off.
Unfortunately, she is quite tough to deal with in general.

Sounds like a right bitch

billybonkers

"small team and training up someone new on our systems can take a very long time"

This should make you very valuable to the company, and it seems like they aren't valuing you at all.

Tell them you booked it after your direct report said there would be no problem with the leave. If they won't play ball hand in your notice exactly one month before your trip, head off, get engaged an enjoy it. Spend the summer interviewing for a job with a company that will value you!!!

mrcheez

You've got a great story to tell at the wedding