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Child Item

The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

Captain Obvious

The current reports are indicating this poor young girl was subject to an awful death. I don't want to engage in speculation about the events. I hope justice is done and her family and friends find some peace.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mobile-phone-and-clothing-of-murdered-schoolgirl-ana-14-yield-vital-clues-to-identifying-killer-36921646.html

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duffman13

Lord Maguire wrote: »

How do you know? He is rumoured to have killed before and similarities are there.

I'd hazard a guess they haveve checked cctv in the area along with Mark Hennessys logs from his sat nav. There appears to be a definitive line of enquiry in motion which doesn't include Hennessy for obvious reasons.

This country is mad, the crimes are heinous enough but people seem to want to have a serial killer added in to make it worse or something. Bizarre

threetrees

Up and down the corridors of the school the students know who did it. Or at least they know who was in the park at the time.

In my kids school if someone sets off the fire alarm, overturns a bin, breaks a fence while hopping it, anything really, the kids know who the likelihood culprit is and corridor talk confirns it. This may be kept from the media but the locals will know.

Woodbrook80

Is there a go fund page for this girl

Captain Obvious

For people wondering about arrests it might be worth explaining how things work in Ireland. You don't simply arrest someone for committing a crime, there has to be a purpose for the arrest. So you arrest them to charge them or to aid with the investigation. Obviously the Gardaí aren't at the charge phase yet. So let's look at the second part.

Once a person is arrested for the investigation they must be detained under a statutory power. Now we have a bit of an odd situation here in Ireland. The basic power to detain someone is Section 4 of the Criminal Justice Act. It allows you to detain someone for up to 24 hours for questioning, DNA, fingerprinting etc. There are different pieces of legislation with extra time limits governing detention for terrorism, drug trafficking and most recently acts involving a firearm but the original Section 4 detention has never been increased from 24 hours. So if you get caught with 10k worth of drugs or shoot someone dead you can theoretically be detained for 7 days but if you stab, rape or strangle them it's only 24 hours. So it is vital that every bit of evidence is ready to be put to the defendant before the arrest. There are some exceptions to this rule but they aren't often invoked.

Now, that doesn't mean that nothing is to be done in the meantime. There's a lot of witness statements, search warrants, DNA testing, phone/computer examination, post mortem all of which will be needed for the detention mentioned above. So that's why arrests don't always come so quick.

Grayson

Lord Maguire wrote: »

You know that for a fact? Hennessy could have gone to the park, saw Ana like he did Jastine and pounced. Nothing says otherwise.

Except for, you know, evidence.

Lord Maguire

Hennessy has form, nothing rules him out.

Laois_Man

Woodbrook80 wrote: »

Is there a go fund page for this girl

That's what I was wondering too!
Or a vigil?

Heres Johnny

Lord Maguire wrote: »

Hennessy has form, nothing rules him out.

You really want this to be a thing don't You?

Heres Johnny

Laois_Man wrote: »

Woodbrook80 wrote: »

Is there a go fund page for this girl

That's what I was wondering too!
Or a vigil?

There is a go fund me page set up by a local teenager. Don't have a link or anything but defo saw it.
There was a vigil/3 minutes silence organised but it was cancelled at family's request.

Skylinehead

Lord Maguire wrote: »

Hennessy has form, nothing rules him out.

Mod: Don't post in this thread again. We warned about utterly baseless speculation.

BoatMad

I think its clear, from the current media reports, the culprit(s) is(are) likely to be of similar age , why people are speculating about random adult killers is beyond me

sbsquarepants

Lord Maguire wrote: »

How do you know? He is rumoured to have killed before and similarities are there.

Rumoured by who exactly?

robarmstrong

Mad how a thread which initially started out with people paying their respect for the poor girl and her family very quickly descended into mindless and baseless speculations.

I hope justice is brought to her family, she went through a horrific ordeal before she died and I think she and her family deserve more than to have randomers mindlessly throwing accusations or assumptions around online.

OwlsZat

Anna was allegedly invited to the park to meet someone that liked her and was greeted instead by a gang of local boys laughing at her. I'm sure they've all been interviewed by now. They should feel an overwhelming sense of guilt. If it's indeed true I can't believe any of them would have thought that was actually an OK thing to do.

Strazdas

Woodbrook80 wrote: »

Is there a go fund page for this girl

It should be pointed out btw that the main reason someone thought of a go fund page for Jastine is because she was living in a foreign country and her body would need to be repatriated to the Philippines, which would be a very expensive process not to mention the expense for her family and friends wanting to travel over there.

evolving_doors

threetrees wrote: »

Up and down the corridors of the school the students know who did it. Or at least they know who was in the park at the time.

In my kids school if someone sets off the fire alarm, overturns a bin, breaks a fence while hopping it, anything really, the kids know who the likelihood culprit is and corridor talk confirns it. This may be kept from the media but the locals will know.

In my experience students like to add stuff on to stories to whip up drama.
I don't know what's going on in the school, but im sure students are being told to stay calm, not start gossiping and talk to adults if they have information.

bessboroughboy

An investigation into whether any warning signs were apparent in the school environment, and whether they were acted on, needs to be conducted.

Perhaps school managements should be obliged to confidentially inform the guards if a bullying problem comes to their attention. At least then, the guards will have an idea which doors to knock on if there's a serious incident.

If it's true that Ana was lured to a meeting, and then set upon by a group, then they should all be tried as accomplices. This might go some way towards promoting a good Samaritan ethos.

Regarding a broken arm injury, I wonder was that caused by someone attempting to intervene?

J Mysterio

bessboroughboy wrote: »

An investigation into whether any warning signs were apparent in the school environment, and whether they were acted on, needs to be conducted.

Perhaps school managements should be obliged to confidentially inform the guards if a bullying problem comes to their attention. At least then, the guards will have an idea which doors to knock on if there's a serious incident.

If it's true that Ana was lured to a meeting, and then set upon by a group, then they should all be tried as accomplices. This might go some way towards promoting a good Samaritan ethos.

Regarding a broken arm injury, I wonder was that caused by someone attempting to intervene?

Or if she fought back and then it escalated

evolving_doors

bessboroughboy wrote: »

An investigation into whether any warning signs were apparent in the school environment, and whether they were acted on, needs to be conducted.

Perhaps school managements should be obliged to confidentially inform the guards if a bullying problem comes to their attention. At least then, the guards will have an idea which doors to knock on if there's a serious incident.

If it's true that Ana was lured to a meeting, and then set upon by a group, then they should all be tried as accomplices. This might go some way towards promoting a good Samaritan ethos.

Regarding a broken arm injury, I wonder was that caused by someone attempting to intervene?

Jeez are you serious? Kids who allegedly went along with a suggested prank be tried as accomplices to murder!

Anyhow this is all speculation and seriously harmful to people, hopefully what happened will come out in time with police interviews and confessions etc.

I've heard so many different accounts through gossip and idle chat it can only mean one thing.
Let the gardaí do their job.
There're probably kids reading this thread and going into schools nearby recounting the 'best bits' as If it's established fact.

Dial Hard

bessboroughboy wrote: »

An investigation into whether any warning signs were apparent in the school environment, and whether they were acted on, needs to be conducted.

Perhaps school managements should be obliged to confidentially inform the guards if a bullying problem comes to their attention. At least then, the guards will have an idea which doors to knock on if there's a serious incident.

I know absolutely nothing about poor Ana's case but my niece is also a first year student in the school and was subjected to absolutely vicious bullying earlier this year. An Instagram account was set up for this express purpose and when it was brought to the attention of the school, the principal was horrified, but didn't ultimately do a whole lot about it. Certainly the Gardaí weren't involved at any stage.

My brother showed me the messages involved. I'd consider myself a very tough cookie but I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's not just the sentiment involved, it's the fact that someone actually felt the need to take the time and effort involved in setting up an Instagram account, sitting down, thinking about and actually typing out the very lengthy messages to my niece telling her how much they hate her. That at no point did they go "Hang on a sec, maybe this isn't really funny/warranted/a bit of a laugh".

It literally beggars belief the cruelty some teens are capable of. Nothing will ever bring Ana back to her family but I hope to God they see some semblance of justice done.

OwlsZat

That's a truly awful story, also sounds hauntingly similar. I'd share that with the Garda tbh it might actually be of some significance.

Children are so hateful and without being a psychologist I can't understand the motives. However, I'd think instead of molly coddling them we'd be far better off teaching them relationships. The how to's; do's and don't practical advice for a practical world. Instead of burying head in the sand and pretending they are always up to good. Secondary students are effectively adults these days. Better to set a curriculum and teach them a bit of respect for one and other early days.

What's the area like are there socioeconomic factors that means there is a section of deprived individuals?

Heres Johnny

OwlsZat wrote: »

That's a truly awful story, also sounds hauntingly similar. I'd share that with the Garda tbh it might actually be of some significance.

Children are so hateful and without being a psychologist I can't understand the motives. However, I'd think instead of molly coddling them we'd be far better off teaching them relationships. Sexual and friendly the how to's, do's and don't practical advice for a practical world. Instead of buying head in the sand and pretending they are always up to good. Secondary students are effectively adults these days. Better to set a curriculum and teach them a bit of respect for one and other early days.

What's the area like are there socioeconomic factors that means there is a section of deprived individuals?

Not really it's all people relatively financially comfortable and little crime apart from some antisocial stuff but much less than most suburbs of Dublin.
Not deprived by any means. No unemployment or anything like that.

[Deleted User]

OwlsZat wrote: »

What's the area like are there socioeconomic factors that means there is a section of deprived individuals?

I know you're only posing a question but I hate this cliched stuff. Brian Murphy was kicked to death outside Anabels in the 'leafiest' part of the country. The media called the killers the Blackrock Boot Boys. Money, or lack thereof, shouldn't make you kill people in a violent and sexually depraved way.

wakka12

OwlsZat wrote: »

That's a truly awful story, also sounds hauntingly similar. I'd share that with the Garda tbh it might actually be of some significance.

Children are so hateful and without being a psychologist I can't understand the motives. However, I'd think instead of molly coddling them we'd be far better off teaching them relationships. The how to's; do's and don't practical advice for a practical world. Instead of burying head in the sand and pretending they are always up to good. Secondary students are effectively adults these days. Better to set a curriculum and teach them a bit of respect for one and other early days.

What's the area like are there socioeconomic factors that means there is a section of deprived individuals?

Perhaps more physically rough fights and things like that in schools in deprived area but such malicious things as Dialhard described Id say has little to do with economic status of the area overall and is more down to the individual children in question who can be in any school regardless of socio economic factors

OwlsZat

Omackeral wrote: »

OwlsZat wrote: »

What's the area like are there socioeconomic factors that means there is a section of deprived individuals?

I know you're only posing a question but I hate this cliched stuff. Brian Murphy was kicked to death outside Anabels in the 'leafiest' part of the country. The media called the killers the Blackrock Boot Boys. Money, or lack thereof, shouldn't make you kill people in a violent and sexually depraved way.

Apologies for asking a cliched question. I don't know the demographic hugely well so said I'd ask. I think from responses it's safe to say there wasn't any marginalised society or us and them stuff going on.

[Deleted User]

we live in a culture now fueled by ridicule, bullying and tacit cruelty. You just have to look at Saturday night TV to get a sense of it. Kids have always been little swines, we all were, I remember us all slagging a kid on our road for years about his cleft pallet, he still lives with his mam and I feel ill when he says hello, ashamed isn't the word. He kicked the sh!t outa me once or twice too, and I him, but that was it.

This stuff though is on a whole new level, kids just don't see the line because often it's not been toed at home, end of story. Boy are the parents going to get an eye opener if the lads had a history of this which went unpunished or not addressed!! They'll be lucky to have all the window still in their houses, (which some ****wits will do)

SirChenjin

Omackeral wrote: »

I know you're only posing a question but I hate this cliched stuff. Brian Murphy was kicked to death outside Anabels in the 'leafiest' part of the country. The media called the killers the Blackrock Boot Boys. Money, or lack thereof, shouldn't make you kill people in a violent and sexually depraved way.

True.

And another killing, also in 'leafy' area... https://www.irishtimes.com/news/man-jailed-over-fatal-stabbing-on-waterloo-road-1.1275192

[Deleted User]

The reasons why children commit horrendous crimes are very complicated. There is no blanket cause and certainly no easy solution or one size fits all rehabilitation. Some kids are subjected to truly awful experiences from the people who should care for them the most. Kids who aren't fed or go to school or shown how to love and what it means to be a decent human being.

Then there are those who no matter the secure base exhibit traits that would fit in with an adult diagnosis of anti-social personality disorder. This can't be diagnosed in childhood because the internal self is still developing.

Anger, feeling different, extreme low self-worth, impulsivity, lack of empathy, inability to see others as human beings. These are serious issues that can create young monsters. I think it's important to be aware as a society of how such crimes can come about and the possible reasons why a child commits them.

brianblaze

Strazdas wrote: »

Woodbrook80 wrote: »

Is there a go fund page for this girl

It should be pointed out btw that the main reason someone thought of a go fund page for Jastine is because she was living in a foreign country and her body would need to be repatriated to the Philippines, which would be a very expensive process not to mention the expense for her family and friends wanting to travel over there.

It's a Fillipino tradition to give money to a family when someone dies. It's called Abuloy.

Snake Plisken

OwlsZat wrote: »

Anna was allegedly invited to the park to meet someone that liked her and was greeted instead by a gang of local boys laughing at her. I'm sure they've all been interviewed by now. They should feel an overwhelming sense of guilt. If it's indeed true I can't believe any of them would have thought that was actually an OK thing to do.

If this is true those boys should be charged for something as they knew where Ana was last seen and never told the authorities. Little scumbags the lot of them, I hope they are named and shamed locally!