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Accident

standardg60

Was out for a cycle with my friend, car overtakes us approaching a speed ramp, then slows for the ramp allowing my friend to pass back up to about rear passenger window, I was about three metres behind.
Car then indicates for left hand turn which was about 20ft beyond the ramp and edges in to approx. 45cm from the kerb..i am 2 metres behind, decide that they are making the turn and hit the brakes as hard as I can.
At the same time car has spotted my friend, about level with passenger window, and has jammed on. My bike is already flipping as I hit the rear of the car, I've somehow managed to flip to the lhs of the car, cuts and bruises and a very stiff knee, bike carries on and breaks the rear window.
Driver is claiming they saw us and said I just ran into the back of them.

Any advice or opinions welcome..

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jimbobaloobob

Have you notified the guards and got a reg and details?

ccmp

Sorry but it reads like this to an observer.
Regardless of what went before, You went to undertake a car and hit him from behind.

standardg60

Sorry should have said they rang the guards, but moved the car before consulting me and before they arrived.
First thing the guard said to me was that they had their indicator on..
I've yet to make a statement, was a bit shook up at the time so only really coming to terms with it now.

jimbobaloobob

Did you get the 1.5m space or does that come into it?

ED E

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Did you get the 1.5m space or does that come into it?

Not important, he rear ended the car.

circular flexing

The driver made a couple of mistakes (overtaking near a speed ramp, not seeing your friend until late) but unfortunately it's 100% your fault that you rear ended the car.

rushfan

standardg60 wrote:

Sorry should have said they rang the guards, but moved the car before consulting me and before they arrived. First thing the guard said to me was that they had their indicator on.. I've yet to make a statement, was a bit shook up at the time so only really coming to terms with it now.

And how did the guard know that the driver had the indicator on????

standardg60

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Did you get the 1.5m space or does that come into it?

It was a 50km zone so a metre is suggested..the car edged in to less than half of that. I probably could have squeezed through but having no way of knowing whether the driver was going to continue with the manoeuvre there was no way I was going into that space

jimbobaloobob

Where were you planning to go by squeezing through?

standardg60

Intrigued by the replies so far..is a car entitled to take up my space on the road just by an indicator.
In a split second I took the lesser of two evils..self preservation kicks in.

RacoonQueen

I don't really understand. The car was stopped by the time the collision occurred? where was your friend at this stage? And where did it happen? With speed ramps it sounds like you could have been urban and they could have been trying to left hook you but it's not really overly clear from your post.

standardg60

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Where were you planning to go by squeezing through?

I was going straight..they were turning left, my friend was already in the junction so he had enough room on his left. I hadn't reached the junction so that was the gap between the car and the kerb.

circular flexing

standardg60 wrote: »

Intrigued by the replies so far..is a car entitled to take up my space on the road just by an indicator.
In a split second I took the lesser of two evils..self preservation kicks in.

As mentioned, rear endings are 100% the fault of the person who was behind, there is no discussion about that.

In your case, I think the onus is on you to be aware of your surroundings. I don't know the junction in question but when I do see junctions ahead I assume that any cars in my vicinity are going to take them (particularly left hand turns) and I adjust accordingly. It's defensive cycling 101.

jimbobaloobob

standardg60 wrote: »

I was going straight..they were turning left, my friend was already in the junction so he had enough room on his left. I hadn't reached the junction so that was the gap between the car and the kerb.

Sorry OP but if you had intended to go straight on and go up the left your in the wrong. I wish you well and glad your not injured.

denismc

standardg60 wrote:

Intrigued by the replies so far..is a car entitled to take up my space on the road just by an indicator. In a split second I took the lesser of two evils..self preservation kicks in.

If he was in front of you when he indicated and you were not in a cycle lane then yes he has right of way.

magicbastarder

circular flexing wrote: »

As mentioned, rear endings are 100% the fault of the person who was behind, there is no discussion about that.

not if the car overtakes and then slams on, if i understand correctly. but it's not clear if this is what happened above.
regardless of legalities, to overtake a cyclist while planning to make a left turn just past the cyclist is a dick move, even if that might not help you legally.

circular flexing

magicbastarder wrote: »

not if the car overtakes and then slams on, if i understand correctly. but it's not clear if this is what happened above.

It is assumed to be the fault of the person behind, it would then be up to that person to prove otherwise (in my experience).

regardless of legalities, to overtake a cyclist while planning to make a left turn just past the cyclist is a dick move, even if that might not help you legally.

Agreed.

standardg60

Wide road, we were going approx. 20km per hour, car on outside, minor road to left, no lights etc.
Car indicates to take left 20ft before turn, friend level with car, me 2 metres behind, car veers in to take turn,spots my friend and stops.
My friend has enough room, I don't.

how.gareth

standardg60 wrote: »

Wide road, we were going approx. 20km per hour, car on outside, minor road to left, no lights etc.
Car indicates to take left 20ft before turn, friend level with car, me 2 metres behind, car veers in to take turn,spots my friend and stops.
My friend has enough room, I don't.

It kind of sounds like you saw what was going to happen but didn’t do enough to avoid it

jon1981

Sounds like he overtook you too close to the turn, didnt spot your friend, jammed on to avoid him and left you with little options but to hope your brakes stopped you in time.

I'd put 70% blame on the car. I think you could have avoided it too by reading the situation earlier but id call what he did dangerous driving.

magicbastarder

circular flexing wrote: »

It is assumed to be the fault of the person behind, it would then be up to that person to prove otherwise (in my experience).

well, let's look at it this way. speaking hypothetically for now, this is not necessarily a comment on the above.
in what circumstance could a cyclist get close enough to rear end a car, in a situation where it might be expected that the cyclist was doing 25-30km/h, and the car was doing 50km/h?
the above implies that the car must have very recently performed an overtake; that much is easy enough to assume.
that said, i've been in a situation where i rear ended a car in vaguely similar circumstances and took the incident (both literally and figuratively) on the chin.

estariol

Weepsie wrote: »

Insurance purposes you're liable.

However, I'd be informing their insurance company of their dangerous/poor driving and making sure they're aware of the accident too.

Wan't to elaborate on how that works??

That seems to be a meaningless catchall statement people seem to throw around, liability is never that simple. I'm in a similar situation to the op in that I went through the rear window of a car that emergency braked when a football came in to the road.
I'm still unsure how it will pan out but I would be surprised if the car drivers insurance company came after me for the cost of a rear window.

fritzelly

If you were 2 metres behind your mate how could you have gone into the back of him?
Something doesn't add up.
If the car is indicating and you are behind you should be letting him turn and go on the right.

how.gareth

estariol wrote: »

Wan't to elaborate on how that works??

That seems to be a meaningless catchall statement people seem to throw around, liability is never that simple. I'm in a similar situation to the op in that I went through the rear window of a car that emergency braked when a football came in to the road.
I'm still unsure how it will pan out but I would be surprised if the car drivers insurance company came after me for the cost of a rear window.

If I skidded to avoid a football and a cyclist came through my back window as a result I would certainly not be claiming off the poor fecker regardless of who was at fault

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

This is simply not true. It depends on the situation.

I have had someone left hook me and I ran into the back of him. "100%" the fault of the driver. :rolleyes:

I have also had someone reverse into me at a set of traffic lights. Not a rear ending but he claimed i hit him. Thankfully I had witnesses. It was actually after this incident I decided to get a cam for the bike.

circular flexing wrote: »

As mentioned, rear endings are 100% the fault of the person who was behind, there is no discussion about that.
...

standardg60

The driver stated that they were intending on doing a U-turn in the junction and were unfamiliar with the area, so could have only indicated when they saw that it was suitable. If they'd indicated earlier I would have kept well back.
Even though they'd just overtaken us they had no idea we were there, my friend would have been creamed had he not been further forward and in the drivers eyeline.
Is it not part of the rules of the road to check mirrors before commencing any manoeuvre?

standardg60

fritzelly wrote: »

If you were 2 metres behind your mate how could you have gone into the back of him?
Something doesn't add up.
If the car is indicating and you are behind you should be letting him turn and go on the right.

I was 2 metres behind the car at 20km per hour..we never changed speed, car overtook us at 30, slowed for ramp at which point we caught up, car was at least 1 metre outside us at this stage. All then travelling at 20 after ramp, friend upsides car and me two metres behind, so three to four behind my friend.
Car then indicates and begins to move in decreasing gap, slowing so friend goes by, spots friend then and jams on.
At the same time i'm deciding whether to try and squeeze through an ever decreasing gap and go under a turning car or run into the back of them.

circular flexing

standardg60 wrote: »

I was 2 metres behind the car at 20km per hour..we never changed speed, car overtook us at 30, slowed for ramp at which point we caught up, car was at least 1 metre outside us at this stage. All then travelling at 20 after ramp, friend upsides car and me two metres behind, so three to four behind my friend.
Car then indicates and begins to move in decreasing gap, slowing so friend goes by, spots friend then and jams on.
At the same time i'm deciding whether to try and squeeze through an ever decreasing gap and go under a turning car or run into the back of them.

You could have pulled in behind the car after it had overtaken and then when it went to make the left turn, you could have swung around the right hand side of it instead. Going up or ending up the inside of a car (particularly close to a junction) is madness, imo. In this case I don't really car what the rules of the road are, I'm the more vulnerable road user and I need to take account of that.

magicbastarder

circular flexing wrote: »

You could have pulled in behind the car after it had overtaken and then when it went to make the left turn, you could have swung around the right hand side of it instead.

i'm possibly misreading the story - but the OP caught up with the car because it had reached a speed ramp; not because it was slowing and indicating for a left turn. an overtake of a car on the right because it has reached a speed ramp is not a manouevre which you'd normally expect to have to perform.

the motorist appeared to have decided to turn left and indicate so *after* the cyclists caught up with him or her.

fritzelly

Deciding whether to go thru an ever decreasing gap

Why???