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Sports Coalition boycotts FCP

Sparks

From their website issued for public release.

Press Release – SPORTS COALITION BOYCOTTS FIREARMS CONSULTATIVE PANEL – 20/2/18
POSTED BY PAUL WALSH ON FEB 20, 2018 | COMMENTS OFF ON PRESS RELEASE – SPORTS COALITION BOYCOTTS FIREARMS CONSULTATIVE PANEL – 20/2/18

Chairman: Paul Walsh Mod edit - we're not going to post his address or phone number
Email: paul.a.walshpc@gmail.com

SPORTS COALITION BOYCOTTS FIREARMS CONSULTATIVE PANEL

The Sports Coalition, an organisation representing the interests of varied groups of countrysports people, has served notice of its boycotting meetings of the Firearms Consultative Panel (FCP) and the Department of Justice because the Minister and his Department continue to sit around the table with people who are representing the interests of those who are the subject of a Garda investigation in relation to illegal use of firearms. This has arisen as a result of one NGO member’s unlawful use of the Garda logo, which is a criminal offence under the Garda Siochana Act and its acknowledged indemnity protection of illegal use of firearms while failing to report such incidents to the appropriate authorities. The Chairman of the Sports Coalition, Paul Walsh, said that it beggars belief that the Minister is prepared to encourage input in relation to the administration of firearms licensing policy from an organisation which has been caught condoning and covering up the illegal use of guns. Mr Walsh said, “This is crying out for the Minister to demonstrate the kind of moral leadership which citizens are entitled to expect. The people concerned should be excluded from any official meetings while criminal investigations are ongoing. The illegal acts identified are ones which would debar a person from owning a gun due to public safety concerns.” He said that the failure to report and the failure of the Minister to respond appropriately gives comfort to firearms offenders.

ENDS

20/2/2018

I've not been able to get the relevant minutes of the FCP meeting where it happened, but I am given to understand that the "criminal complaint" he's referring to here is a written complaint submitted by the Sports Coalition to the Gardai accusing the NARGC of supporting criminal acts on the grounds that the compensation fund the NARGC runs is permitted by law to pay compensation even if the injured party was not in full compliance with the firearms act at the time of the injury.

There are further documents released on the SC's website at this time:

http://www.sportscoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Pressstatement19.02.18.pdf
http://www.sportscoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Letter-from-SC-to-Minister-Staunton-19_02.pdf
http://www.sportscoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Letter-to-All-TD-And-Senators.pdf
http://www.sportscoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Sports-Coalition-to-M_Walsh-DOJ-19_02.pdf

Those are open letters to the Minister, every TD and Senator in the Oireachtas, and the Principal Officer of the DoJ Firearms Unit.

I've seen more petty, damaging, stupider acts carried out in the course of working on firearms legislation in Ireland during the last decade or two, but I think this is the first time I've seen one lobbying group formally and legally accuse another of a criminal enterprise to the Gardai and the Department of Justice. So it's a new low, if not a lower low.

Far be it from me to suggest a motive, but the cynic might read some paragraphs in the letter to the minister and extract a meaning from them which was perhaps not intended by the original author.

The members of the Sports Coalition are deeply concerned that it appears you intend to
conduct a meeting concerning the composition of the membership of the FCP which we can
only deduce from statements made publicly a member NGO that the meeting is being called
at their behest.

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Comments

berettaman

cavan shooter wrote: »

It might be too late. I see the Country sports lads are pushing hard there deer courses even though no training is needed till 2020. It was on there Facebook page.

I don't think it is too late. You always have a choice where you spend your hard earned money.

solarwinds

berettaman wrote: »

cavan shooter wrote: »

It might be too late. I see the Country sports lads are pushing hard there deer courses even though no training is needed till 2020. It was on there Facebook page.

I don't think it is too late. You always have a choice where you spend your hard earned money.

And mine will be spent in RFD buying ammo and not being wasted on someones vanity project money making scam.
Enough of my hard earned money is being milked out of me everyday and im sure as hell not going to be handing over any more so some pr*ck can retire early and destroy yet another sport on their way.

Sparks

Wexshot1 wrote: »

Well now it seems the SC are using all our data to mislead the minister and other parties into believing that they are a huge organisation with plenty of support.

Interesting. Under GDPR, less than a month away, that'd be rather strictly illegal.
Even under existing Irish law that's a rather... risky action to take, from the viewpoint of legal liability and the duties imposed on a data controller by the law.

g00167015

Sparks wrote: »

Interesting. Under GDPR, less than a month away, that'd be rather strictly illegal.
Even under existing Irish law that's a rather... risky action to take, from the viewpoint of legal liability and the duties imposed on a data controller by the law.

The problem with existing data protection legislation in Ireland is that there are no realistic sanctions for even the worst breaches of a person's data protection rights. The only offences in the act relate to failure to honour a request from the commissioner, in which case the offending data controller gets told off for being very very naughty and make sure they don't do it again (to all intents and purposes)

Sparks

While this is true, the GDPR is a very different beast indeed (which is why half the IT world is beginning to panic, especially in light of the recent Schrems 2 judgement in the high court, while the other half of the IT world has been panicing for quite some time already).

However, even under current law a moderate rebuke by the DPC seems in order if data were to be abused in this way, and such a rebuke would make for interesting reading for anyone who had had that data presented to them as proof of representation.

Cass

Wexshot1 wrote: »

I have it on good authority that the SC are quoting that they represent 120000 people in Ireland.

Based on the best guess figures that would represent 90%+ of the shooting community.

So unless they represent the NARGC, IFA, NASRPC, and pretty much every other group barring those lads that don't assign to any they are completely wrong and it needs to be pointed out.

Also i don't think they used the petition. 120,000 signatures on a shooting petition is as likely as a gun friendly Minister. Last petition we had here, on FB and in all the ranges got about 6,000 and that took over 4 months.

Cass

BattleCorp wrote: »

And yet the NASRPC (probably the largest shooting body in the SC) still have their wagon hitched to the SC.

Yup.

cavan shooter

Should we canvass our clubs to write to the Sports Coalition and go on record telling them not to use our names in any attempt to justify there existence, in my case considering the NARGC have left your table. You'd be sick if they got in to FCP on that stroke.

gunny123

Anything stirring ? It seems to be oh so quiet lately !

cavan shooter

That would make me nervous too...last I heard countryside Ireland costing up to them or vice versa and the rumour our petitions are being rolled out to prove support and there active membership

wirehairmax

Registered as a lobbying organization since December 2017

Grizzly 45

Strange that Firearms United [IRL] was turned down from the FCP as an EU-wide and an EU parliamentary registered lobbying organisation.Probably too small,as we only represent 200 million give or take EU wide.:rolleyes:

Cass

wirehairmax wrote: »

Registered as a lobbying organization since December 2017

Is Des Crofton still involved in the so called coalition? I ask because he has his own company and lobbying is listed as one of the facilities he offers.

By the way only quantifiable and documented answers in the format of yes or no. If you don't know please refrain from answering. Don't want a repeat.

Grizzly 45

Y'see..THIS is the reason we need EU representation or feedback on whats going on in the EU on legislation... Statement from FU on the directive.

We need to face the fact that many Countries will likely overshoot the deadline.

If that happens, all the EC could do would be to start an "Infringement Procedure" (https://ec.europa.eu/…/applying-e…/infringement-procedure_en) against them, but that's it.

It's a lengthy procedure and is unlikely to start if the number of Countries that overshoot the deadline on the directive implementation is high.

At this point, those of us who are worried that their governments may want to hastily implement the directive in a restrictive or generally bad way[IE Gold plating,quite common in Irish EU legislation] at the last moment should wonder whether or not it's possible to lobby so that their governments will "take their time" in the implementation of the procedure.

If you have any influence on them, remind them that the cost of the financial penalties for the Countries found to be in infringement would still be small compared to the financial cost of a bad implementation.

Ask your governments to formally consider the idea of suspending the implementation until the ECJ ruling, reminding them (if feasible in your Country) that should they adopt a gun law based on a directive later struck down by the ECJ, lawsuits could ensue and national finances would be overburdened with the cost of compensations.

Has anyone mentioned this of the "recognised organisations" at the FCP table to the minister???Somehow I doubt it..But if anyone is reading this of the FCP elite...Please feel free to bring it to the minister's attention and claim the credit too...

yubabill1

Obviously the challenges brought against the firearms directive are delaying implementation, but the DoJE - which AFAIK drafts the directive for Irish law (not 100% on that) is in a bit of a state - didn't the head guy say he was retiring and AGS, who would surely be part of the said drafting are in a bit of disarray at the top level, what with tribunals and a few little mixups with their maths homework.

Personally, I wouldn't trust either of these authorities to write a Santa letter at the moment, never mind transpose a contested EU directive.

BattleCorp

yubabill1 wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't trust either of these authorities to write a Santa letter at the moment, never mind transpose a contested EU directive.

The real danger for us is if the directive is 'gold plated'. In other words that our guys don't include stuff in our legislation that the directive didn't require.

By the way, has that EU directive been passed at EU level?

Grizzly 45

Yes, it is passed, but it is under an ECJ challenge by Slovakia and the Czech Republic.
At the moment AFAICS, we have 95% of this directive already in national law, and in a priority of things, it is probably in the lower to do list, with both DOJ/AJS having more important things on their plates...Like 15 missing phones ...

It's still a shambles with the deacts being done in Ireland..No FAAA... The only thing would be the mag bans,but again that would require some definition in law as to exactly what, and how.Something the EU itself hasn't even provided.:rolleyes:

wirehairmax

For an orginization that claims to represent 24000 of us, they are very shy of social media. You'd think they'd want to shout it from the rooftops how great they are and engage with their loyal flock. Wonder why theyre staying off the airwaves? Are they afraid of something?

BattleCorp

wirehairmax wrote: »

For an orginization that claims to represent 24000 of us, they are very shy of social media. You'd think they'd want to shout it from the rooftops how great they are and engage with their loyal flock. Wonder why theyre staying off the airwaves? Are they afraid of something?

The NASRPC account here on boards.ie is well able to join in discussions whenever it suits them but they promptly disappear whenever anyone asks them simple yes or no questions regarding if they are members of the SC.

I mean, is it a secret? Either they are members and support the SC or they are not. Why not confirm it one way or the other?

Are they members of the SC and ashamed to confirm that they are members?

To be honest, I lost faith in the organisation when they removed the voting rights of shooters and the carry on since regarding the SC hasn't helped restore my faith in the organisation.

BattleCorp

http://www.sportscoalition.org/sports-coalition-delivers-submission-to-justice-department/

Anybody able to shed any light what was in the submissions by the SC made to the DOJ back in March?

gunny123

BattleCorp wrote: »

http://www.sportscoalition.org/sports-coalition-delivers-submission-to-justice-department/

Anybody able to shed any light what was in the submissions by the SC made to the DOJ back in March?

You can not own a firearm unless you have been vetted by the sc, and bought the gun off walsh.

I write that as a joke, but wouldn't be surprised if its true.

badaj0z

BattleCorp wrote: »

The NASRPC account here on boards.ie is well able to join in discussions whenever it suits them but they promptly disappear whenever anyone asks them simple yes or no questions regarding if they are members of the SC.

I mean, is it a secret? Either they are members and support the SC or they are not. Why not confirm it one way or the other?

Are they members of the SC and ashamed to confirm that they are members?

To be honest, I lost faith in the organisation when they removed the voting rights of shooters and the carry on since regarding the SC hasn't helped restore my faith in the organisation.

wirehairmax wrote: »

For an orginization that claims to represent 24000 of us, they are very shy of social media. You'd think they'd want to shout it from the rooftops how great they are and engage with their loyal flock. Wonder why theyre staying off the airwaves? Are they afraid of something?

Same old, same old.

They are running great competitions though.

BattleCorp

badaj0z wrote: »

Same old, same old.

They are running great competitions though.

I don't doubt they are running good comps but their ability to answer simple questions on matters that affect most of us is absolutely sh1te.

berettaman

BattleCorp wrote: »

The NASRPC account here on boards.ie is well able to join in discussions whenever it suits them but they promptly disappear whenever anyone asks them simple yes or no questions regarding if they are members of the SC.

I mean, is it a secret? Either they are members and support the SC or they are not. Why not confirm it one way or the other?

Are they members of the SC and ashamed to confirm that they are members?

To be honest, I lost faith in the organisation when they removed the voting rights of shooters and the carry on since regarding the SC hasn't helped restore my faith in the organisation.

Good point. Very few associations still in bed with S.C. and fewer still will admit it..

Any word from FISSTA?

I guess there are No cahunas among the rod men either..

wirehairmax

Does anyone know anything about Country Sports Ireland? I’ve heard them and the SC had been making eyes at each other and that CSI are looking for representation on the FCP.

cavan shooter

BattleCorp wrote: »

http://www.sportscoalition.org/sports-coalition-delivers-submission-to-justice-department/

Anybody able to shed any light what was in the submissions by the SC made to the DOJ back in March?

I guess alot about positioning themselves and their buddies to maximise financial gain. The Country sports Ireland lads are out selling courses to beat the band on the old HCAP fear, which is not a legal requirement. They even run courses on lamping so I'd say the content of the submission will be all about how we need to be more trained.

solarwinds

Kind of makes ya wonder how we all managed to get this far without proper guidance and instruction from an expert who learned his craft from google.
Be interesting to see what I have been doing wrong for over 20 years.

BattleCorp

Heard from one if our delegates that the complaints sent to the gardai by sports coalitions chairmen were now investigated and thrown out. Also apparently there's another "Anonomous" complaint doing the rounds. Lads on the floor pissed off...executive told to go on the offensive and nip it in the bud.

^^^^^^^^^

Taken from the hunting forum here on Boards.ie.

If the complaints have been investigated by the Gardai and thrown out, does it make the SC's position on the FCP untenable?

wirehairmax

Is there such a charge as wasting Gardai time with these spurious complaints?

Sparks

I think that given the nature of the complaints (which I haven't managed to obtain under FOI yet), the effect on the SC's position would be down to them making them in the first place and whether or not they were thrown out by AGS would at best be immaterial.
However, the implication here is that the SC would feel that having an untenable position would require them to resign or disband or in some way remediate the situation; it seems they do not believe that, given past actions.