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Men's rights on Abortion?

drunkmonkey

Do we get a look in anywhere or can a man/boyfriend/fiance/husband legally challenge a woman's decision to abort?

I've put in a poll to see what you think

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Comments

[Deleted User]

....... wrote: »

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Again that's at the whim of legislation, any government could tell revenue to put orders directly on psri number. There is no legal way for a guy to step aside.

Have a chat? Oh there's a mood enhancer, and if condom breaks and she decides (as is her right) to proceed anyway it's tough crap lad.

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[Deleted User]

....... wrote: »

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All ejaculate contains semen, which is why pulling out isn't an effective family planning technique.
Failing condoms are not some mega event which you can always know has happened.

FFS

DickSwiveller

Deleted User wrote: »

All ejaculate contains semen, which is why pulling out isn't an effective family planning technique.
Failing condoms are not some mega event which you can always know has happened.

FFS

FFS why don't you deal with 99 per cent of abortions that have nothing to with failed contraception, rape etc, and are purely for convenience

Galwayguy35

Calhoun wrote: »

As for the feminist angle, this is the little gem that keeps on giving. I think it points exactly to how feminists feel about men's rights to vote on this one.

Men need to know their place and take that into account when voting. Feminists would rather you not have a vote or an opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BUNC0pp87c

Doubt she did as much shouting at men when she came to our country begging for citizenship.

Calhoun

Deleted User wrote: »

So the current law is not enforced.

Also there is no legal way for a guy to "disappear", as you say.
Should a guy not have the right to not be a parent? Legally of course, biologically is up to the woman

Guy was recently jailed for not paying child support.

Outlaw Pete

_Dara_ wrote: »

Aaaahhh, speak for yourself there. Had I been aborted, I’d have been none the wiser and I am really, massively okay with that.

I see that said a lot, on Twitter mostly, but in fairness, Dara, if we were killed at birth, we wouldn't know anything about that either and so that in and of itself is pretty meaningless.

The truth is that so many of us would not be here but for the fact that Irish citizens voted to give us a right to life while we were developing in the womb. I know of people that were told that they would have been aborted if the money was there to go to the UK.

I am grateful for my life and I would not be okay with my mother choosing to end my life in the womb, unless of course her life depended on it.

It amazes me that so many that had right to life afforded to them in the womb, by virtue of them being in Ireland, will on Friday vote to take that right away from others.

_Dara_

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I see that said a lot, on Twitter mostly, but in fairness, Dara, if we were killed at birth, we wouldn't know anything about that either and so that in and of itself is pretty meaningless.

I agree, which is why people shouldn't bother to bring it up. It is totally meaningless. If any of us were aborted, we wouldn't know so therefore wouldn't have feelings on the topic.

Life is a chink of light between two expanse of darkness. Do you remember what the first darkness was like?

I'm happy to have experienced the chink of light. But that's because I have experienced it. I'm not bothered by the idea that I may not have. So voting to repeal leaves my conscience clear.

drunkmonkey

At 27 weeks you'd know your being harmed as you can feel the the spikey boi.
So you may not know your were aborted but your last few minutes would be extremely painful.

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SusieBlue

drunkmonkey wrote: »

At 27 weeks you'd know your being harmed as you can feel the the spikey boi.
So you may not know your were aborted but your last few minutes would be extremely painful.

Abortions don't occur at that gestation, an induction is performed.
Late term terminations only occur in heartbreaking circumstances where the baby has FFA or there is a massive risk to the life of the mother.
These are very much wanted, loved, grieved for babies.
No woman stays pregnant for 7 months and then one day decides to pack it in for the lols, for goodness sake.

drunkmonkey

SusieBlue wrote: »

Abortions don't occur at that gestation, an induction is performed.
Late term terminations only occur in heartbreaking circumstances where the baby has FFA or there is a massive risk to the life of the mother.
These are very much wanted, loved, grieved for babies.
No woman stays pregnant for 7 months and then one day decides to pack it in for the lols, for goodness sake.

http://www.iowartl.org/get-the-facts/abortion/methods/

SusieBlue

drunkmonkey wrote: »

http://www.iowartl.org/get-the-facts/abortion/methods/

That's a pro-life website.

drunkmonkey

SusieBlue wrote: »

That's a pro-life website.

So it's lies just because it's from a pro-life website.

From the BBC

Surgical abortion methods
Vacuum aspiration abortion
In a vacuum aspiration abortion a tube is gently inserted into the womb through the cervix. The contents of the womb are sucked out through this tube.

Dilatation and evacuation, dilatation and curettage
In this method the woman's cervical canal is enlarged with tools called dilators. When the canal is sufficiently enlarged the womb is emptied by suction, or by having its contents scraped out with a tool called a curette.

Partial birth abortion
This is also called 'intact dilation and extraction'.

The procedure involves the extraction of the body of the foetus into the vagina before the contents of the skull are sucked out, killing the unborn, after which the intact foetus is removed from the woman's body.

Many women who opt for "partial-birth" abortions do so because their foetuses have severe or fatal anomalies or because the pregnancy endangers their lives or health.

Opponents of this method of abortion argue that the procedure is really a form of infanticide

SusieBlue

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So it's lies just because it's from a pro-life website.

From the BBC

Surgical abortion methods
Vacuum aspiration abortion
In a vacuum aspiration abortion a tube is gently inserted into the womb through the cervix. The contents of the womb are sucked out through this tube.

Dilatation and evacuation, dilatation and curettage
In this method the woman's cervical canal is enlarged with tools called dilators. When the canal is sufficiently enlarged the womb is emptied by suction, or by having its contents scraped out with a tool called a curette.

Partial birth abortion
This is also called 'intact dilation and extraction'.

The procedure involves the extraction of the body of the foetus into the vagina before the contents of the skull are sucked out, killing the unborn, after which the intact foetus is removed from the woman's body.

Many women who opt for "partial-birth" abortions do so because their foetuses have severe or fatal anomalies or because the pregnancy endangers their lives or health.

Opponents of this method of abortion argue that the procedure is really a form of infanticide

You’re missing the point. The vast vast majority of women who have late term terminations want a baby, not an abortion.
If you look at the TFMR reports, one of the most traumatic parts of having to travel was cited as their baby not being able to meet their family back home.
They don’t want suctions and dismemberings and every other thing you are trying to push.
They want to bring their much loved babies home to meet their family.
They have inductions and then they either cremate their child and have the remains posted home, or they take their chances and try to sneak the baby’s body home on the ferry.

drunkmonkey

SusieBlue wrote: »

You’re missing the point. The vast vast majority of women who have late term terminations want a baby, not an abortion.
If you look at the TFMR reports, one of the most traumatic parts of having to travel was cited as their baby not being able to meet their family back home.
They don’t want suctions and dismemberings and every other thing you are trying to push.
They want to bring their much loved babies home to meet their family.
They have inductions and then they either cremate their child and have the remains posted home, or they take their chances and try to sneak the baby’s body home on the ferry.

Your making assumptions. The "vast majority" can you back that up.
Then you say "They don’t want suctions and dismemberings and every other thing you are trying to push"
Your not facing up to the fact it happens which is really sticking your head in the sand.

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drunkmonkey

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No your lying to yourself, no point pretending it's something it's not. It's barbaric in some circumstances, you need to face up to that.

From the BBC article "the contents of the skull are sucked out, killing the unborn". What part of that are you missing.

Your yapping on about different times of abortion etc, but the facts are nothing and I mean nothing is decided right now if the Yes side win.

You don't need to be on either Yes/No side to deal in reality.

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SusieBlue

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your making assumptions. The "vast majority" can you back that up.
Then you say "They don’t want suctions and dismemberings and every other thing you are trying to push"
Your not facing up to the fact it happens which is really sticking your head in the sand.

Statistically, circa 1.1% of all abortions occur after week 21.
If a woman didn't want a child, why on earth would she wait over 5 months to have a termination?
How would she get two doctors to sign off on aborting a viable pregnancy, unless there was substantial risk to the life of herself or her child?

Tell me how

facehugger99 wrote:

There's a arsehole of a guy in work trotting round the place with his 'No' sticker prominently displayed on his chest. I'm half-hoping one of the women in here go over a tear a few strips off him.

The guy in in his 50's and won't ever be affected by the provisions of the 08th amendment but has the gall to foist his opinion on female body autonomy into the workplace.

If he was wearing a Yes sticker would you be equally offended?

Do you know what "his" story is? Maybe a family member who he loves was born after an abortion was considered.

I'm very disconcerted by the hypocrisy of complaints from both sides.

drunkmonkey

SusieBlue wrote: »

Statistically, circa 1.1% of all abortions occur after week 21.
If a woman didn't want a child, why on earth would she wait over 5 months to have a termination?
How would she get two doctors to sign off on aborting a viable pregnancy, unless there was substantial risk to the life of herself or her child?

Your doing it again, your making assumptions about what the law will say and what are the requirements. You don't know what will happen after the yes vote.
Who says 2 doctors have to sign off, there is no guarantee this will happen.

Your also assuming all women would not want to abort a viable baby. Again it's wishful thinking.

One person on the yes side put it to me that they should really have unrestricted abortion until before it's delivered. See people think differently, while you and I might agree that's just wrong on so many level another person might not care less as in their eyes it's not a baby until it's born.

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drunkmonkey

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No facts, the fact is the Yes side is made of wishful thinkers and there all wishing for different things. They can not give one absolute on anything.
You can't have fairness when there's a party whip system.

SusieBlue

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your doing it again, your making assumptions about what the law will say and what are the requirements. You don't know what will happen after the yes vote.
Who says 2 doctors have to sign off, there is no guarantee this will happen.

Your also assuming all women would not want to abort a viable baby. Again it's wishful thinking.

One person on the yes side put it to me that they should really have unrestricted abortion until before it's delivered. See people think differently, while you and I might agree that's just wrong on so many level another person might not care less as in their eyes it's not a baby until it's born.

The statistic refers to the UK, and the protocol of 2 doctors refers to their requirements.
How would a woman get two doctors to sign off on aborting a viable pregnancy, unless there was substantial risk to the life of herself or her child?

As for your second point, 91%of abortions happen before week 13. A negligible amount occur after the point of viability, less than 1.1%.

You're right, we don't know for sure what will happen after the 8th is repealed. But we do know this, politicians have kicked the can down the road for the last 35 years avoiding this issue.
They will not want to rock the boat in terms of displeasing the public.

And so far, the public are calling for abortion without restriction up till week 12, and on request after that for severe FFA's or serious threat to the health of the mother. The citizens assembly are backing this motion. I can't see legislation swaying far from this recommendation.
In these cases, an induction is performed.
These are wanted babies, born in emergencies and in awful tragic circumstances.

Are you saying that if a woman has to be induced at 7 months pregnant to receive cancer treatment, she'll be wanting her baby sucked out and dismembered?
What kind of monsters are you acquainted with? These babies are sent straight to the neonatal unit and given every chance possible.

Its the same for cases of FFA, as I said previously, one of the reasons couples find it so hard having to travel is because their families can't meet their babies. These women give birth the normal way and have funerals for their children.

So there really is no need to be worrying about late term abortions of viable baby's. Because it won't be happening here. Because it will only be available in 2 specific circumstances.
So really you are scaremongering about what "some women" might do in countries with different laws.

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

Maybe a family member who he loves was born after an abortion was considered.
.

So? I don't understand why this matters?
My father wanted my mother to her an abortion.
My best friend went for an abortion & changed her mind.
Both I & my friends daughter are pro choice & will be voting yes.
I don't see the point here?

Tell me how

bubblypop wrote:

So? I don't understand why this matters? My father wanted my mother to her an abortion. My best friend went for an abortion & changed her mind. Both I & my friends daughter are pro choice & will be voting yes. I don't see the point here?

The point was that the poster was bothered by someone "foisting their opinion on others in the workplace". I queried if that was really his issue or was he just bothered about the message. Hence my point about the hypocrisy.

Was it that confusing?

Outlaw Pete

SusieBlue wrote: »

If a woman didn't want a child, why on earth would she wait over 5 months to have a termination?

Well, good question, Sarah Catt tried to procure an abortion at 29 weeks and eventually resorted to pills mere days before the baby was due. She was having a long standing affair at the time. Another young woman did similar a few years ago also but I'd have more a lot more empathy for her than I would Sarah as she seems to have some mental health issues which I don't feel were giving as much credence as they perhaps should have been.

Then there was the UK GP who was caught helping to arrange 8 month pregnancy abortions in Spain for some of her patients in an uncover sting. Came out also that she had even arranged an eight month abortion for her own daughter. How many had she arranged before being uncovered one has to wonder.

Just on the following also, Susie:

SusieBlue wrote: »

You are being disingenuous, we are looking at a 12 week limit. Two pills and a heavy period, no need for any ripping.
Mid term and late term abortions are done in tragic circumstances for wanted babies, due to FFA and other such reasons.

I keep seeing this kind of comment being made, and not just by yourself, but many users, and indeed some Irish medical professionals, and it is totally false. There is zero reason to think that abortion methods in Ireland will be much different to that of the UK and will only require women here taking two pills and having a heavy period.

In fact, in the UK 84% of abortions between 10 -12 weeks are surgical and even if we go down to between 3 - 9 weeks gestation, 28% of those abortions are surgical also: