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Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

dowlingm

So there's been quite a bit of discussion of greenways on threads like Western Rail Corridor (Train & Rail Systems) and I was thinking it might be useful to have a thread which pulls together both technical discussion (for example how greenways can co-exist with adjacent roadways or railways) and news (expansions of existing greenways / announcements of new ones)

According to the Connaught Tribune there are moves on getting on Galway-Clifden along the old rail line alignment. Is there anything else starting to reach firm proposals as opposed to discussion?

MOD EDIT: Fantastic Greenway map of Ireland by riddlinrussell here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1HAHB3jpXV7qgrTHgopH4Zl7-ItDHGEPv&ll=53.4320326010536%2C-8.939188105408448&z=7

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Del.Monte

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Short section of Connemara Greenway officially opened today

Good to see this happening as it will retain the rail route for future reopening.

riddlinrussell

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't really understand what the "land access" issue is supposed to be - it's a railway alignment! You access the alignment where it touches existing roads.

It would only be that simple where the land is state owned, the vast majority of the land for these old railway alignments was either sold off or is well past the date required for farmers along the route to claim 'eminent domain'. In numerous places the line has been closed for long enough that houses have been built on the alignments, they pass through farmers work yards, intersect fields etc. its a thorny issue and the merest suggestion of CPOs tends to get landowners up in arms. The process used for all these routes will probably look towards the examples set by the Waterford-Dungarvan Greenway and the Great Western Greenway, but each will have their own unique set of issues.

Zubeneschamali

mr spuckler wrote: »

do you know if this is an objection to the concept of a greenway or just an issue regarding land access?

I don't really understand what the "land access" issue is supposed to be - it's a railway alignment! You access the alignment where it touches existing roads.

riddlinrussell

serfboard wrote: »

I presume the section being opened is in Recess, but the report doesn't say exactly where (i.e. the section from X to Y), or how much (in terms of KMs) of the Greenway has been opened.

I managed to get a fairly clear idea of how much was done within this section, if you have a look on my map I have the completed section labelled as "Ballynahinch Greenway"

mr spuckler

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

There are a lot of handmade "No Greenway" signs out around Oughterard, even though there is a perfectly good railway alignment, closed since 1935.

do you know if this is an objection to the concept of a greenway or just an issue regarding land access?

I can only assume it's the latter! I mean it's not like protesting against suggestions of new pylons or fracking for your local area...

Zubeneschamali

mr spuckler wrote: »

the map there also shows how much (or little) has been completed, it looks like just this stretch plus a short piece closer to the city that have been done to date.

There are a lot of handmade "No Greenway" signs out around Oughterard, even though there is a perfectly good railway alignment, closed since 1935.

mr spuckler

more details here.

The 6km Athry to Cloonbeg section of the route, which was opened by Monday by Galway county cathaoirleach Eileen Mannion, runs close to Ballynahinch Castle and Ballinafad graveyard, north of Roundstone.

Planning permission has been granted for the Oughterard to Clifden section, which takes in the Athry-Cloonbeg piece, but the Galway-Moycullen section has been stalled over access issues.

the map there also shows how much (or little) has been completed, it looks like just this stretch plus a short piece closer to the city that have been done to date.

serfboard

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Short section of Connemara Greenway officially opened today

Galway Bay FM wrote:

The Connemara Greenway has been officially launched (28/5).

The master plan for the Connemara Greenway is to develop a 76km route stretching from the heart of Galway City out towards Clifden, following the path of the old rail line.

Our reporter in Recess ...

I presume the section being opened is in Recess, but the report doesn't say exactly where (i.e. the section from X to Y), or how much (in terms of KMs) of the Greenway has been opened.

riddlinrussell

Short section of Connemara Greenway officially opened today

riddlinrussell

Updated map with proposed Glanmire Greenway from here. I get the feeling there are a number of these 'local' greenways that are flying under the radar. Please let me know if you know of anything like this, or improvements made to greenways in your area.

marno21

North Kerry greenway ploughing on

http://www.radiokerry.ie/council-hold-public-consultation-day-regarding-proposed-north-kerry-greenway/

riddlinrussell

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Sorry, I was confusing that route with this more recent proposed Grand Canal/Royal Canal/Old Rail trail links to EV 2

From Offay Express,april 13th 2018
In addition to the 71kms of the canal mainline through Offaly, it is further planned to link the Grand Canal Greenway with the Royal Canal Greenway via the disused canal link from Ballycommon to Kilbeggan, in conjunction with Westmeath County Council and Waterways Ireland.

The Kilbeggan Link will provide a strategic National and Regional route linking the Royal Canal Greenway, the Old Rail Trail in Westmeath, the proposed Dublin to Galway ‘Euro Velo’ route, the Grand Canal Greenway and the proposed Barrow Blueway. It will also be possible to link the Grand Canal Greenway with Clonmacnoise and onwards to the West region via Banagher and Shannonbridge.

While the route is clear for this along the Kilbeggan spur of the canal its less obvious from there, I've added a reasonable potential route running along the bank of the Barna river and the shore of Lough Ennell on my map, I'd appreciate any critiques or alternatives.

Also finally updated it with the Skibbereen to Schull railway (Rough Estimation of the route) and the Galway to Ballinasloe section of EV2 ( VERY rough estimate, I just drew a line between the towns it wanted to pass through in 2013).

Also got my crayons out for some routes around Northern Ireland also

mr spuckler

If these proposals regarding the joining up of various pieces of greenway infrastructure in the midlands come to fruition it will really be an incredible addition to the area.
I always worry though with these things until I see some concrete approvals and funding in place!

Corca Baiscinn

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

2013, I think, from the docs.

Sorry, I was confusing that route with this more recent proposed Grand Canal/Royal Canal/Old Rail trail links to EV 2

From Offay Express,april 13th 2018
In addition to the 71kms of the canal mainline through Offaly, it is further planned to link the Grand Canal Greenway with the Royal Canal Greenway via the disused canal link from Ballycommon to Kilbeggan, in conjunction with Westmeath County Council and Waterways Ireland.

The Kilbeggan Link will provide a strategic National and Regional route linking the Royal Canal Greenway, the Old Rail Trail in Westmeath, the proposed Dublin to Galway ‘Euro Velo’ route, the Grand Canal Greenway and the proposed Barrow Blueway. It will also be possible to link the Grand Canal Greenway with Clonmacnoise and onwards to the West region via Banagher and Shannonbridge.

mr spuckler

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If you are going to CPO the whole route, why would you run it alongside a busy road? Alongside the railway would make more sense - just a few trains per day go by.

Ideally, you would pick a scenic route joining small villages and towns and avoiding major roads and railways, but I think this would get maximum pushback from farmers.

clearly I'm expressing myself very badly.

I was trying to highlight that the Tuam road suggestion was a poor idea for 2 reasons...1) the road itself is not suited to cycling and 2) running a greenway alongside it would be unfeasible because of the CPO requirement. as you've said, a greenway beside a busy road also wouldn't be the most appealing for users.

we've also seen with the existing route proposal how extensive CPOs just aren't a good idea if you're trying to get landowner engagement & buy-in.

Zubeneschamali

mr spuckler wrote: »

my post (in my head anyway) was meant to allude to that in case it was what the poster meant. the road itself is poor quality and narrow in most parts, so any extension for such a purpose would require CPOs the whole distance...

If you are going to CPO the whole route, why would you run it alongside a busy road? Alongside the railway would make more sense - just a few trains per day go by.

Ideally, you would pick a scenic route joining small villages and towns and avoiding major roads and railways, but I think this would get maximum pushback from farmers.

mr spuckler

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Presume poster meant run it parallel to old Tuam road but still a greenway as opposed to a quietway?

my post (in my head anyway) was meant to allude to that in case it was what the poster meant. the road itself is poor quality and narrow in most parts, so any extension for such a purpose would require CPOs the whole distance...

Zubeneschamali

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

The proposal of going to Ballinasloe from Shannonbridge is fairly new so poster may not have been au fait with it

2013, I think, from the docs.

Corca Baiscinn

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The Greenway will go south to Shannonbridge and then up the old canal to Ballinasloe, so that entire section will be nowhere near the N6.

I think the poster was referring to the fact that there was talk after the land issue debacle of running the greenway parallel to the N 6 as a way out of the impasse but of course noise-wise it would hae been horrible

mr spuckler wrote: »

not to mind the fact that the old Tuam road is bad enough to drive, let alone cycle on!

Presume poster meant run it parallel to old Tuam road but still a greenway as opposed to a quietway? The proposal of going to Ballinasloe from Shannonbridge is fairly new so poster may not have been au fait with it

mr spuckler

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The Greenway will go south to Shannonbridge and then up the old canal to Ballinasloe, so that entire section will be nowhere near the N6.

not to mind the fact that the old Tuam road is bad enough to drive, let alone cycle on!

Zubeneschamali

veryangryman wrote: »

Personally i tihink the Athlone-Galway part of the route could be solved by following the Tuam Road (R362->R363). This obsession with following the old N6 is baffling.

The Greenway will go south to Shannonbridge and then up the old canal to Ballinasloe, so that entire section will be nowhere near the N6.

veryangryman

Personally i tihink the Athlone-Galway part of the route could be solved by following the Tuam Road (R362->R363). This obsession with following the old N6 is baffling.

riddlinrussell

Carawaystick wrote: »

the Middlebank between the Newry Ship Canal and Carlingford lough proper is now open.
from https://www.google.ie/maps/@54.124694,-6.3056705,2a,60y,333.15h,86.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9zx_mXtUQPaZ_F9NeriZIg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
up to Newry.

Makes me happy to move Greenways into the 'Completed' section of my map! I recently ran across a local councillors work getting a greenway for the Downpatrick area that I haven't seen mentioned in print anywhere else, so I added it in to my map. If you know of a local project that hasn't had national visibility let me know and I'll add it to the map, along with a project link if there is one. (Still got to go back and trawl through all the ones I haven't got pages for...)

Carawaystick

the Middlebank between the Newry Ship Canal and Carlingford lough proper is now open.
from https://www.google.ie/maps/@54.124694,-6.3056705,2a,60y,333.15h,86.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9zx_mXtUQPaZ_F9NeriZIg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
up to Newry.

Lord Glentoran

serfboard wrote: »

From that article:
Good to hear.

For people that bang on about rural communites being left behind, the farmers aren't slow to object to developments which would benefit their communities ...

Interesting comment underneath that article.

TII are not capable of delivering this project. TII involvement was one of the main reasons project failed in east Galway in 2015. It is laughable that Minister Ross considers a body that builds motorways suitable to deliver cycling infrastructure, especially after their 2015 failure. TII have refused to engage in a meaningful manner with landowners, homeowners, cyclists, or rural communities deciding instead to forcefully acquire working farmland and private property using CPO. Minister Ross and TII are refusing to consider the alternatives. Dept. of Transport is attempting to introduce Right to Roam legislation into this country. Minister Ross and his Dept. are out of touch with rural Ireland. What is it they say about a person who repeats the same process over and over again but expects a different outcome each time?

Looks like the compo bowl is being dusted down for another rattle. What alternatives will be that now, encroachment on the railway between Athlone and Galway? So, whoops, no future passing loops on the railway, and oh dear, we can't make its speed competitive with motorways then. So, instead of using the country's transport infrastructure effectively, pressure remains on to predict and provide more motorway expansion. Hence more compo for landowners.

As for the Right to Roam responsibly in our own country, landowners are still dependent on practices going back to the 19th century, and the landlord system.

Do your job and face them down, Minister.

serfboard

Deleted User wrote: »

TII to take over the building of the Galway to Dublin greenway

http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/04/25/4155166-tii-to-advance-the-greenway-project/

From that article:

Shane Ross wrote:

We also now have a template of accommodation works that have proved successful in Waterford at mitigating the impact of the greenway on farming. I am hopeful that this can serve as a template for this project also and should alleviate any concerns that farmers and other landowners may have.

Good to hear.

For people that bang on about rural communites being left behind, the farmers aren't slow to object to developments which would benefit their communities ...

Corca Baiscinn

riddlinrussell wrote: »

From an international perspective I was more thinking design wise than process wise for the most part, incorporating elements that prevent cars etc from accessing the route while ensuring all mobility devices and Bikes with Trailers etc can get on.

I really wish they'd do more in terms of urban cycleways though... I see regular trips to the Netherlands to view their infrastructure from politicians... then they come back and paint a line on the road....

Get you now and couldn't agree more! Re trips to the NL, have the politicians/engineers/planners really been? I was thinkingof organising a "go fund me" for the poor crathrs on the basis that they mustn't know any better!

riddlinrussell

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Agree with you in general but dont think we can learn a lot from how things are done abroad since our settlement patterns and land ownership systems are quite different to other countries. We have no automatic rights of way or right to roam as they have in many countries and our dispersed rural settlement pattern is also quite different. Afraid it's a case of finding an Irish solution to an Irish problem!

From an international perspective I was more thinking design wise than process wise for the most part, incorporating elements that prevent cars etc from accessing the route while ensuring all mobility devices and Bikes with Trailers etc can get on.

I really wish they'd do more in terms of urban cycleways though... I see regular trips to the Netherlands to view their infrastructure from politicians... then they come back and paint a line on the road....

Corca Baiscinn

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I think it would definitely be foolhardy to go in all guns blazing on a Greenway, no matter how popular they are with the government. Talking up CPOs from the get-go is only going to rile up landowners, one would hope the lessons learned from the construction of the existing routes, plus the missteps of the stalled ones, and the processes used abroad, would all be taken into consideration to ensure as painless and expedient a process as possible. And obviously a major consideration of such an eco-friendly tourism and transit opportunity should be that it has robust environmental protections and minimises impact were possible without compromising the quality of the Greenway. I'd be mightily displeased if a vital habitat was destroyed just for the sake of saving a few quid bulling through on the greenway, especially given that in such a case, where possible, those habitats should be incorporated as a feature.

Agree with you in general but dont think we can learn a lot from how things are done abroad since our settlement patterns and land ownership systems are quite different to other countries. We have no automatic rights of way or right to roam as they have in many countries and our dispersed rural settlement pattern is also quite different. Afraid it's a case of finding an Irish solution to an Irish problem!

riddlinrussell

I think it would definitely be foolhardy to go in all guns blazing on a Greenway, no matter how popular they are with the government. Talking up CPOs from the get-go is only going to rile up landowners, one would hope the lessons learned from the construction of the existing routes, plus the missteps of the stalled ones, and the processes used abroad, would all be taken into consideration to ensure as painless and expedient a process as possible. And obviously a major consideration of such an eco-friendly tourism and transit opportunity should be that it has robust environmental protections and minimises impact were possible without compromising the quality of the Greenway. I'd be mightily displeased if a vital habitat was destroyed just for the sake of saving a few quid bulling through on the greenway, especially given that in such a case, where possible, those habitats should be incorporated as a feature.