Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

Hector Bellend wrote: »

How does she get almost 3500 worths of posts?

Some men feel threatened by her.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except that you haven't provided any evidence to support your statement.

Oh, the CDC report states that men commit more sexual harassment than women (towards both genders), and it also states that women receive more sexual harassment than men. Nobody is arguing those points. These are all well accepted notions.

However, the above is not what you stated:

"Sexual harrassment is for the most part committed by males. It's a specifically male problem that is deserving of a term to describe it. There's no point pretending it's a people in general problem when it's actually not. Anyone is justified using the term "toxic masculinity" when describing Harvey Weinstein because that behaviour is confined to males."

But the behavior is not confined to males. Women engage in sexual harassment too. There's also women who abuse men due to the power difference. Just because the numbers reported are less, doesn't make it less of an issue. It's not confined to males.

Care to retract that statement, since it is incredibly inaccurate and could easily considered to be sexist?

I'm curious... do you believe that only men can be sexist, or can women also be sexist towards men?

Ok I'll replace the statement that it's confined to males with "it's pretty much confined to males".

Hector Bellend wrote: »

How does she get almost 3500 worths of posts?

who? LON?

LLMMLL wrote: »

You say narrative, I say evidence.

Except that you haven't provided any evidence to support your statement.

Oh, the CDC report states that men commit more sexual harassment than women (towards both genders), and it also states that women receive more sexual harassment than men. Nobody is arguing those points. These are all well accepted notions.

However, the above is not what you stated:

"Sexual harrassment is for the most part committed by males. It's a specifically male problem that is deserving of a term to describe it. There's no point pretending it's a people in general problem when it's actually not. Anyone is justified using the term "toxic masculinity" when describing Harvey Weinstein because that behaviour is confined to males."

But the behavior is not confined to males. Women engage in sexual harassment too. There's also women who abuse men due to the power difference. Just because the numbers reported are less, doesn't make it less of an issue. It's not confined to males.

Care to retract that statement, since it is incredibly inaccurate and could easily considered to be sexist?

I'm curious... do you believe that only men can be sexist, or can women also be sexist towards men?

Hector Bellend

How does she get almost 3500 worths of posts?

cantdecide wrote: »

No, because you say so.

Only the bits that support 'muh narrative', right?

You say narrative, I say evidence.

givyjoe wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that men do not get harassed by women 'relatively regularly' too?! I'm asking because you seem to be implying that men being harassed is only from other men.

According to a study of 75000 people (men and women) by the CDC both men and women were harrassed, and in both cases the harrassment was overwhelmingly done by men.

LLMMLL wrote: »

If you say so.....

No, because you say so.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Actually the relevant study shows that men do face sexual harrassment relatively regularly. From other men.

Only the bits that support 'muh narrative', right?

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

Actually the relevant study shows that men do face sexual harrassment relatively regularly. From other men. And yes I do think it's an issue.

Do you seriously believe that men do not get harassed by women 'relatively regularly' too?! I'm asking because you seem to be implying that men being harassed is only from other men.

cantdecide wrote: »

Fibs. No hoots given.

If you say so.....

LLMMLL wrote: »

Actually the relevant study shows that men do face sexual harrassment relatively regularly. From other men. And yes I do think it's an issue.

Fibs. No hoots given.

cantdecide wrote: »

Could you even give a flying fiddlers fudge if men faced regular sexual harassment? Hypothetically, if there was a study that proved to you that you were all wrong all this time and that men actually faced more sexual harassment than women [purely hypothetically], would you have a split second to for anything that doesn't affect your in-group or would you just move onto another subject that did?

Actually the relevant study shows that men do face sexual harrassment relatively regularly. From other men. And yes I do think it's an issue.

upandcumming

LLMMLL wrote: »

Well I'd like a culture shift where defensive men don't try and dismiss any concerns around sexual harrassment by pointing to that one time in 2008 a girl groped their ass in Coppers for a start.

Laura Whitmore: 'A man put his hand up my skirt in a nightclub and laughed'
COME ON LAURA! This happened last year - get over it already!

LLMMLL wrote: »

As I've said whenever this comes up, men should not be harassed.

Could you even give a flying fiddlers fudge if men faced regular sexual harassment? Hypothetically, if there was a study that proved to you that you were all wrong all this time and that men actually faced more sexual harassment than women [purely hypothetically], would you have a split second to for anything that doesn't affect your in-group or would you just move onto another subject that did?

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

I agree it's.not solely enacted by men. Just for the vast vast majority.

Care to put some statistical significance to it?

Wibbs wrote: »

An irony bypass is a certainty with zealots of any persuasion. It's a very good litmus test of zealotry.

Another litmus test for zealotry is labelling someone who doesn't agree with you a zealot. Is that irony or zealotry?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a fact that there are more reported incidents of sexual harassment by males. Yup. That's a fact.

It is not a fact that sexual harassment is solely enacted by men. It is a fact that women do engage in sexual harassment of men. Perhaps consider the "facts" you choose to use in supporting your statements.

It's also a fact that both genders do not report sexual harassment due to many social/cultural reasons.

I agree it's.not solely enacted by men. Just for the vast vast majority.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, The irony. Priceless.

An irony bypass is a certainty with zealots of any persuasion. It's a very good litmus test of zealotry.

Wibbs

LLMMLL wrote: »

I didn't mention you at all. If you're not suggesting that the term toxic masculinity should not be applied to HW then I've no issue with you. My point is that it's a valid term, it's applicable to HW and there's no issue with Emma Thompson applying it to him.

If you can't see your "valid term" that's bandied about more and more, strongly suggests masculinity itself is toxic I don't know what to say to you. Then again you are a feminist, so are incapable of seeing that. The term "toxic femininity" couldn't even compute for you. It simply can't exist in your politic. It's always men's fault. Even male feminists apologists have to wear sackcloth because of their gender.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Well I'd like a culture shift where defensive men don't try and dismiss any concerns around sexual harrassment by pointing to that one time in 2008 a girl groped their ass in Coppers for a start.

As would I actually. However I'd also like a cultural shift where feminists and feminism doesn't filter Every. Single. Issue. through women are always the victims, men are always to blame. That would be nice. Though fitting that square peg into the round hole of feminist thought is pretty much never going to happen, or at least this will happen about the same time.

LLMMLL wrote: »

A single study of 75,000 people done by the most impartial of groups.

And the main harassers of men are other men.

Men are by far the most responsible for sexual harrassment. It's just a fact.

It's a fact that there are more reported incidents of sexual harassment by males. Yup. That's a fact.

It is not a fact that sexual harassment is solely enacted by men. It is a fact that women do engage in sexual harassment of men. Perhaps consider the "facts" you choose to use in supporting your statements.

It's also a fact that both genders do not report sexual harassment due to many social/cultural reasons.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, The irony. Priceless. I really don't even have to object, you provide the objections yourself.

The poster was trying to dismiss the extensive harrassment of women with a single example from his life. It's a common tactic. As I've said whenever this comes up, men should not be harassed. But the fact is it happens FAR less than the harrassment of women by men. The harrassment of women by men is a specific issue no committed equally by both genders. I'm Not going to pretend it is in the face of scientific evidence to the contrary.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A single study? Seriously? That's your justification for the blatant sexism of your post?

And sexual harassment of men by women does occur, and since it does occur, then it's not specific to men.

You defend against anything remotely victim blaming, and agree with posters talk about women not making harassment/abuse claims due to social pressure or simply being not believed. But you can't even allow that men wouldn't make similar claims due to the same pressures... and if you actually do some research you'll find that claims of sexual harassment of men in the workplace can often be as high as 17-20 percent. But, hey! that's less than women, so it doesn't exist.

After all, only women can be victims. :rolleyes:

A single study of 75,000 people done by the most impartial of groups.

And the main harassers of men are other men.

Men are by far the most responsible for sexual harrassment. It's just a fact.

Donnielighto

Are people dismissing them all or the attitude that it's one way?

Tbh I don't like the blame culture that assigns guilt by association across populations, it's happening more and more.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Well I'd like a culture shift where defensive men don't try and dismiss any concerns around sexual harrassment by pointing to that one time in 2008 a girl groped their ass in Coppers for a start.

Oh, The irony. Priceless. I really don't even have to object, you provide the objections yourself.

cantdecide wrote: »

In a world of deplorable and heinous behaviour, what's the deal with you and sexual harassment? No one ever died of sexual harassment. Everyone gets sexually harassed in some way eventually. Can't you just condemn it and move on? I mean you can't jail people for cat calling or inappropriate remarks. Even I've been grabbed in clubs and I ain't no prize. I mean what do you want, a vigilante sniper squad that assassinates men for being *ssholes?

Well I'd like a culture shift where defensive men don't try and dismiss any concerns around sexual harrassment by pointing to that one time in 2008 a girl groped their ass in Coppers for a start.

LLMMLL wrote: »

That's not true and I know you read the relevant study as I remember you saying you were reading it.

A single study? Seriously? That's your justification for the blatant sexism of your post? And I also don't remember that study supporting your belief that sexual harassment only concerns women. You're welcome to post up the study again, and have the posters here consider your evidence.

And sexual harassment of men by women does occur, and since it does occur, then it's not specific to men.

You defend against anything remotely victim blaming (for women), and agree with posters talk about women not making harassment/abuse claims due to social pressure or simply being not believed. But you can't even allow that men wouldn't make similar claims due to the same pressures... and if you actually do some research you'll find that claims of sexual harassment of men in the workplace can often be as high as 17-20 percent. But, hey! that's less than women, so it doesn't exist.

After all, only women can be victims. :rolleyes:

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nope. False rape claims are rare. Sexual harrassment of women by men is not. Penny dropped yet?

In a world of deplorable and heinous behaviour, what's the deal with you and sexual harassment? No one ever died of sexual harassment. Everyone gets sexually harassed in some way eventually. Can't you just condemn it and move on? I mean you can't jail people for cat calling or inappropriate remarks. Even I've been grabbed in clubs and I ain't no prize. I mean what do you want, a vigilante sniper squad that assassinates men for being *ssholes?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sexual harassment is not something solely committed by males, and is committed by women too. The only difference is the perception as to what constitutes sexual harassment, and whether men are bothered by such behavior.

That's not true and I know you read the relevant study as I remember you saying you were reading it.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

That's a strawman argument there, chief, suggested nothing of the sort.

I didn't mention you at all. If you're not suggesting that the term toxic masculinity should not be applied to HW then I've no issue with you. My point is that it's a valid term, it's applicable to HW and there's no issue with Emma Thompson applying it to him.

Well, by that logic, false rape allegations are caused by 'toxic femininity' as that behaviour is confined to females.

Penny dropped yet? Doubt it.

Nope. False rape claims are rare. Sexual harrassment of women by men is not. Penny dropped yet?