Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

CatInABox wrote:

The amount of good press that the Waterford greenway generated recently if phenomenal, the Irish Times had several large articles on the benefits that it has brought to the area, and the Irish Times has a massive grudge against infrastructure spending.

Nothing yet printed about the potentially illegal planning process, may never occur though.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Nothing yet printed about the potentially illegal planning process, may never occur though.

That's a bit obtuse, care to expand?

schemingbohemia wrote: »

That's a bit obtuse, care to expand?

sorry, not really

Oh well that's helpful - you really shouldn't throw out rubbish like that if you're not going to back it up.

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Oh well that's helpful - you really shouldn't throw out rubbish like that if you're not going to back it up.

supporting this 'rubbish' may in fact affect ongoing investigations and also reveal identities of individuals involved, also including my own identity. thank you

veryangryman

Honestly i hope they go with the original route. CPO's for national infrastructure need to be more gung-ho. Give the farmer(s) some reasonable compensation and build it.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

supporting this 'rubbish' may in fact affect ongoing investigations and also reveal identities of individuals involved, also including my own identity. thank you

Well then you shouldn't have said anything at all, rather than allude to something and not following up. I'm unsure what investigations could be going on at this stage that would actually make any difference since the Greenway is open 13 months at this stage.

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Well then you shouldn't have said anything at all, rather than allude to something and not following up. I'm unsure what investigations could be going on at this stage that would actually make any difference since the Greenway is open 13 months at this stage.

so people should stay quiet, and not voice their opinions on such matters? if there have been problems with constructing already existing infrastructures, these findings can and will not have any effect on future construction on similar infrastructures?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

supporting this 'rubbish' may in fact affect ongoing investigations and also reveal identities of individuals involved, also including my own identity. thank you

YOU are Nimby McNimbyface?

[dramatic music]

Of course not, but stating there was something untoward in the planning process thereby implying wrongdoing on behalf of Waterford City and County Council without anything backing it up is unfair to them and your reluctance to state the issues only implies to me that you have nothing to back it up with.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

YOU are Nimby McNimbyface?

[dramatic music]

im not going into this any further folks, its important to realise the development of our greenways hasnt all been squeaky clean, this is reasonably well known in certain circles and organisations around the country, in particular environmental organisations. i have explained why i cannot disclose more information. thank you

Can you at least give us a hint?

Do you think this planning issue is such that they should have done more studies before opening? That they should not have been allowed to open at all? That they should have slipped you a few dollars so you wouldn't object?

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Can you at least give us a hint?

Do you think this planning issue is such that they should have done more studies before opening? That they should not have been allowed to open at all? That they should have slipped you a few dollars so you wouldn't object?

its important to realise ive little or no interest in gaining financially in life, money doesnt motivate me at all, in fact i find it boring, i also find those that have those kind of interests also boring, and how dare you accuse me of such activities.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its important to realise ive little or no interest in gaining financially in life, money doesnt motivate me at all, in fact i find it boring, i also find those that have those kind of interests also boring, and how dare you accuse me of such activities.

OK, so dollars are not the motivation. Of course I did not mean to suggest an illegal bribe, I only meant that some sort of fund to engage the local community would disburse monies for a project which might benefit you in a strictly above-board way.

Your hints seem to suggest an environmental problem, perhaps you think that the issue of an Environmental Impact Statement was mishandled?

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

OK, so dollars are not the motivation.

Your hints seem to suggest an environmental problem, perhaps you think that issue of an Environmental Impact Statement was mishandled?

im afraid this is where i bow out, but there are well known, well respected environmental organisations working on this. ive explained earlier why im not going any further with this information. thank you

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im afraid this is where i bow out

Fair enough, nudge nudge, wink wink, you did NOT tell us that an environmental group is going the legal route to complain that the EIS was mishandled.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Fair enough, nudge nudge, wink wink, you did NOT tell us that an environmental group is going the legal route to complain that the EIS was mishandled.

i did not

Lord Glentoran

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im not going into this any further folks, its important to realise the development of our greenways hasnt all been squeaky clean, this is reasonably well known in certain circles and organisations around the country, in particular environmental organisations. i have explained why i cannot disclose more information. thank you

Doesn't surprise me.

[Deleted User]

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im not going into this any further folks, its important to realise the development of our greenways hasnt all been squeaky clean, this is reasonably well known in certain circles and organisations around the country, in particular environmental organisations. i have explained why i cannot disclose more information. thank you

Granted there have been a few annoyed folks due to the manner in which cpo's were thrown about, but CPO's by their very nature annoy people. You only have to look at the development of roads over the last 50 years today see that

As for environmental issues, you offer nothing but cryptic nonsense, and there has been nothing reported, that I have found. If there are issues, of course they should be dealt with (to think otherwise would be idiotic). But, unless you have more to offer, there's no point in discussing it further.

However, as a new form of amenity, the greenway that have been built have been a massive success for communities, the environment and health of the general populace.

riddlinrussell

I think it would definitely be foolhardy to go in all guns blazing on a Greenway, no matter how popular they are with the government. Talking up CPOs from the get-go is only going to rile up landowners, one would hope the lessons learned from the construction of the existing routes, plus the missteps of the stalled ones, and the processes used abroad, would all be taken into consideration to ensure as painless and expedient a process as possible. And obviously a major consideration of such an eco-friendly tourism and transit opportunity should be that it has robust environmental protections and minimises impact were possible without compromising the quality of the Greenway. I'd be mightily displeased if a vital habitat was destroyed just for the sake of saving a few quid bulling through on the greenway, especially given that in such a case, where possible, those habitats should be incorporated as a feature.

Corca Baiscinn

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I think it would definitely be foolhardy to go in all guns blazing on a Greenway, no matter how popular they are with the government. Talking up CPOs from the get-go is only going to rile up landowners, one would hope the lessons learned from the construction of the existing routes, plus the missteps of the stalled ones, and the processes used abroad, would all be taken into consideration to ensure as painless and expedient a process as possible. And obviously a major consideration of such an eco-friendly tourism and transit opportunity should be that it has robust environmental protections and minimises impact were possible without compromising the quality of the Greenway. I'd be mightily displeased if a vital habitat was destroyed just for the sake of saving a few quid bulling through on the greenway, especially given that in such a case, where possible, those habitats should be incorporated as a feature.

Agree with you in general but dont think we can learn a lot from how things are done abroad since our settlement patterns and land ownership systems are quite different to other countries. We have no automatic rights of way or right to roam as they have in many countries and our dispersed rural settlement pattern is also quite different. Afraid it's a case of finding an Irish solution to an Irish problem!

riddlinrussell

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Agree with you in general but dont think we can learn a lot from how things are done abroad since our settlement patterns and land ownership systems are quite different to other countries. We have no automatic rights of way or right to roam as they have in many countries and our dispersed rural settlement pattern is also quite different. Afraid it's a case of finding an Irish solution to an Irish problem!

From an international perspective I was more thinking design wise than process wise for the most part, incorporating elements that prevent cars etc from accessing the route while ensuring all mobility devices and Bikes with Trailers etc can get on.

I really wish they'd do more in terms of urban cycleways though... I see regular trips to the Netherlands to view their infrastructure from politicians... then they come back and paint a line on the road....

Corca Baiscinn

riddlinrussell wrote: »

From an international perspective I was more thinking design wise than process wise for the most part, incorporating elements that prevent cars etc from accessing the route while ensuring all mobility devices and Bikes with Trailers etc can get on.

I really wish they'd do more in terms of urban cycleways though... I see regular trips to the Netherlands to view their infrastructure from politicians... then they come back and paint a line on the road....

Get you now and couldn't agree more! Re trips to the NL, have the politicians/engineers/planners really been? I was thinkingof organising a "go fund me" for the poor crathrs on the basis that they mustn't know any better!

serfboard

Deleted User wrote: »

TII to take over the building of the Galway to Dublin greenway

http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/04/25/4155166-tii-to-advance-the-greenway-project/

From that article:

Shane Ross wrote:

We also now have a template of accommodation works that have proved successful in Waterford at mitigating the impact of the greenway on farming. I am hopeful that this can serve as a template for this project also and should alleviate any concerns that farmers and other landowners may have.

Good to hear.

For people that bang on about rural communites being left behind, the farmers aren't slow to object to developments which would benefit their communities ...

Lord Glentoran

serfboard wrote: »

From that article:
Good to hear.

For people that bang on about rural communites being left behind, the farmers aren't slow to object to developments which would benefit their communities ...

Interesting comment underneath that article.

TII are not capable of delivering this project. TII involvement was one of the main reasons project failed in east Galway in 2015. It is laughable that Minister Ross considers a body that builds motorways suitable to deliver cycling infrastructure, especially after their 2015 failure. TII have refused to engage in a meaningful manner with landowners, homeowners, cyclists, or rural communities deciding instead to forcefully acquire working farmland and private property using CPO. Minister Ross and TII are refusing to consider the alternatives. Dept. of Transport is attempting to introduce Right to Roam legislation into this country. Minister Ross and his Dept. are out of touch with rural Ireland. What is it they say about a person who repeats the same process over and over again but expects a different outcome each time?

Looks like the compo bowl is being dusted down for another rattle. What alternatives will be that now, encroachment on the railway between Athlone and Galway? So, whoops, no future passing loops on the railway, and oh dear, we can't make its speed competitive with motorways then. So, instead of using the country's transport infrastructure effectively, pressure remains on to predict and provide more motorway expansion. Hence more compo for landowners.

As for the Right to Roam responsibly in our own country, landowners are still dependent on practices going back to the 19th century, and the landlord system.

Do your job and face them down, Minister.

Carawaystick

the Middlebank between the Newry Ship Canal and Carlingford lough proper is now open.
from https://www.google.ie/maps/@54.124694,-6.3056705,2a,60y,333.15h,86.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9zx_mXtUQPaZ_F9NeriZIg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
up to Newry.

riddlinrussell

Carawaystick wrote: »

the Middlebank between the Newry Ship Canal and Carlingford lough proper is now open.
from https://www.google.ie/maps/@54.124694,-6.3056705,2a,60y,333.15h,86.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9zx_mXtUQPaZ_F9NeriZIg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
up to Newry.

Makes me happy to move Greenways into the 'Completed' section of my map! I recently ran across a local councillors work getting a greenway for the Downpatrick area that I haven't seen mentioned in print anywhere else, so I added it in to my map. If you know of a local project that hasn't had national visibility let me know and I'll add it to the map, along with a project link if there is one. (Still got to go back and trawl through all the ones I haven't got pages for...)

veryangryman

Personally i tihink the Athlone-Galway part of the route could be solved by following the Tuam Road (R362->R363). This obsession with following the old N6 is baffling.